"Progressive" Michael D now salutes Irish Troops occupying Southern Lebanon

by jeff Sun Dec 18, 2011 15:35

And the Israelis with their proxy Chisrtian miltias given the Irish troops a rather hard time? Just sayin' that's all...

by Veteran Sun Dec 18, 2011 16:40

Irish troops (and all UNIFIL troops) are there at the request of the Lebanese government and we have always had a good working relationship with the Lebanese people. We have had casualties over the years caused by all sides involved i.e., the PLO, Amal, Hezb Allah, DFF, SLA. To say that the Irish troops are in occupation of south Lebanon is an outright lie and you should be ashamed of yourself for publishing such a load of claptrap.

by Gearoid O Loingsigh Mon Dec 19, 2011 14:49

Irish troops are in occupation of Lebanon. They first went in when the country was ruled by Christian Maronite thugs, a minority that managed to stay in power for quite some time. They are a buffer force. It is more acceptable internationally to have UN troops do the dirty work rather than the Israelis directly. The idea of the humanitarian imperialism and the UN as some noble body seems to be alive and well. The Brits were supposedly in the north as peace keepers as well.

by Rational Ecologist. Mon Dec 19, 2011 15:13

The certainty of the simple answer is a very comfortable place to be, however, that does not mean it is true. Irish troops in Lebanon cannot be compared to British troops in NI. Life is complex and nuanced and not black and white.

by Gearoid O Loingsigh Mon Dec 19, 2011 18:04

Well here are the nuances, the troops, not just the Irish ones, went in to prop up the corrupt Maronite regime, have stood by and watched every time the Israeli's wanted to go in. Their only role was and remains to keep the area stable for the Israeli's. LIfe is nuanced, yes it is but that is the answer we get to everything from the Invasion of Iraq to everything else you want. Reagan once described his invasion of Grenada as a "mercy mission" and in a technical sense it was, but we know that was just a smoke screen. The reason the UN is involved in so many "peace keeping" missions is it is easier to put one over the gullible as the replies on this site show.

by RetirementHome Mon Dec 19, 2011 18:16

Norris would not have done this.
Neither would McGuinness
Bet all the "anti war" fuckers who voted M.D.H. are squirming now.
"Fruit basket" for the people of lebanon from Michael D.
and a Merry xmas to the Israelis

Makes ya proud to be Irish, eh michael?
"Support our troops" eh michael?

what fucking waste of 5000 a week tax money!!

Just another mouthpiece for imperialism

what a sad end to his career.

by veteran Mon Dec 19, 2011 18:38

UNIFIL had and still has no mandate or capability for peace a enforcement (i.e. stopping an Israeli invasion). The role is more of a well armed police, not propping up anyone whether they be Christian or Muslim. Gearoid your views do not reflect the views of the mainly muslim population of South Leabaon where we served and we can not be compared to the British forces in the north. The locals (many of whom are personal friends) begged the Irish government to send back Irish troops after an absence of a few years. The Mukhtar of Tibnin is very proud to show of his Irish army built school and orphanage and the local people avail of the services of the Medical corps daily. I would suspect that you have never visited the area and are as the saying goes "talking through your hole". Have a happy christmas and goodbye.

by Gearoid O Loingsigh Mon Dec 19, 2011 23:36

Have a gun will travel, unlike you Veteran, I have no gun and have never travelled to Lebanon. I have looked down the wrong of a gun more than once in my life but never have I had one to point at someone else, so what ever hole I talk through it is not one on the end of a barrel of a gun. This site is amazing, people come on with utter stupidities like Gearoid your views don't reflect those of the muslim population in Southern Lebanon. Well I never said they did, though your partitioning of Lebanon is interesting. I have no means of conducting a survey. Most catholics voted for the SDLP and did not see the Brits as an army of occupation either, whether it was or not, is a question of analysis and not of opinion poles. You have no mandate to stop an Israeli invasion because your role is to police the locals and behalf of the "International community" that supports Israel. If you find a Hezbollah member transporting guns or an rpg or something towards the border area, what do you do? You don't sit by. But if the Israelis decide to go in with a hell of a lot more stuff you do. That is your role. At the end of the day soldiers are just hired hands, hired potential assassins of the State they serve. That is all. Now I am off to find a hole to talk through that is not a .303 or whatever mudererous weapon you are issued with nowadays.

by Veteran Tue Dec 20, 2011 09:13

This humble "hired hand" would like to congratulate you on keeping so well up to date on a geo-political issue you feel obliged to lend your wisdom to. I didn't patrition Lebanon, South Lebanon is what the Lebanese call (believe it or not) the South of Lebanon. I'm sure I saw a .303 in a museum once beside a bow and arrow. Staring down the business end of a rifle (probably 5.56mm) must have scattered your brains along with your bowel movements.

by Gearoid O Loingsigh Tue Dec 20, 2011 14:49

yes the south is the south and people call the south of England the south as well. However, your comment was on the opinion of the people only in Southern Lebanon and not the whole of the country, therein lies the partition. As for my bowel movements they are fine at the moment, the odd infection notwithstanding from time to time. And well it was really a pistol that I got to stare down, very literally. Maybe it affected me I am not as macho as the hung ho hired hands that abound in the world. As for the .303 yes I know it is ancient, but I couldn't remember the name of the heap of shite the Irish army is issued with, hence my comment whatever it is you are issued with. And to be honest I couldn't care less about your guns, I stopped playing cowboys and indians a long time a go. Grow up. All of this is off the point of course about the use of UN troops to uphold the established order, not just in Lebanon but in lots of places (even places that have a south as well).

by Joe - None Tue Dec 20, 2011 17:10

......we get there. That last comment from veteran about scattering brains and bowel movements tells us all we need to know about the military mentality that will always be around to bolster the powerful, as long as they have guns to talk about and wank over. Veteran spent some time arguing his case, fair play to him, but when the challenge became too much it was time to reach for the old macho terminology to let us all know that he's the one who's stood at the business end of a gun and bravely brought about involuntary bowel movements in others. An army marches on its stomach, but, unfortunately, it hasn't got the brains to even think with its arse.

by Joe McIvor Wed Dec 21, 2011 02:43

Surely everybody knew before voting for him –apart perhaps from a few in IAWM circles - that Michael D. Higgins , would like his predecessors have to do military ceremonial stuff like this and worse if he were to be elected President . As part of his oath of office he agrees to put his signature on all legislation including those that make the state complicit in wars. Although asked to take a clear stance against militarism during his election campaign the veteran peace campaigner made no commitments to do so. Galway Alliance against War recorded on this site as far back as March that they had asked in an open letter to the Galway TD :

“Do Michael D and the Labour Party now believe that Ireland should be “complicit in war”? We would welcome a public statement from the aspiring Labour Party presidential candidate, Michael D Higgins, and from the Labour leader and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Eamon Gilmore, on these important matters.”

The IAWM reported on its site a week before the election that presidential candidates had been asked by peace activists to state their positions on such matters as extraordinary rendition. The report noted that Michael D Higgins had spoken at numerous anti-war protests and had raised questions in the Dail regarding the transport of kidnapped persons through Shannon.

Had Higgins made any positive anti-war reply to either of these requests both the organizations would surely have reported on it. Those who feel let down by Higgins should consider the possibility that the reason he didn’t respond to these requests from peace campaigners is because, whatever his over-projected humanitarian profile, Higgins is a career politician at heart - a fact that would certainly have been long known to the Labour Party National Executive and the Labour Parliamentary Party when they chose him as their presidential candidate

In January ,Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore proposed that Ireland should establish a “global humanitarian hub” at Shannon Airport. His department has since commissioned a study to assess the potential level of demand for a facility at Shannon for humanitarian organizations,” including , according to a report in The Irish Times last month, “ governments, the United Nations, European Union, Red Cross agencies and NGOs.”. Perhaps the proposed humanitarian hub‘s proximity to the US military hub at Shannon, whose presence is justified and sanctioned by such NGOs on humanitarian grounds, is no mere coincidence . Humanitarian aid , humanitarian war and a humanitarian president for Ireland

by Mk Wed Jan 18, 2012 17:36

These 'occupiers' were specifically requested by the Mayor of Tbnin. It has long been the case that the Lebanese have been glad to have Irish troops among them, in no small part because they DO have a track record of standing up to Israeli and Israeli proxy forces.

Here's an article from 1989 after the deaths of a number of Irish troops

"On March 30, hundreds of Tebnin's 5,000 residents participated
in a memorial ceremony for the three Irish soldiers killed by the
landmine.
``The Irish contingent lives among its people in the south,''
said one of the banners at the ceremony. ``Aggression against it is
aggression on the southerners.'' '

http://fiji4.ccs.neu.edu/~zerg/lemurcgi/lemur.cgi?d=0&i...=star

Go tell their families they were 'imperialists', while you sit in smug safety back home in Ireland. You think you know better than the people of Lebanon? Maybe you're the real imperialists

by Mk Wed Jan 18, 2012 17:41

"by Gearoid O Loingsigh Máirt Noll 20, 2011 14:49
......the heap of shite the Irish army is issued with........."

Are you a peace activist or a weapons expert or both? A true renaissance man.......

(Or an overly precious little bluffer who's all upset that not everyone agrees with him)

by A Freeman Wed Jan 18, 2012 20:26

Gearoid O Loinsigh describes the Christians of Lebanon as "Maronite thugs",why? Is it because they stood up for themselves and refused to accept muslim overlords treating them as second class people in their own country? Isn't it funny how so many Irish lefties love the idea of islamic forces like Hamas and Hezbollah using armed force in the region but can't bear the thought of non-muslims like christians and Druze having the same rights? Btw the Irish UNIFIL lads are very welcome over there by most accounts.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Jan 19, 2012 09:41

..but weren't the Maronites the gentle folk that slaughtered unarmed civilian men women and children in Sabra and Shatila refugee camps while the IDF whistled the tune?

by A Freeman Thu Jan 19, 2012 14:14

.... only because the PLO and allied muslim militias had already carried out a massacre of over 1,000 christian lebanese at Damour a few years previously. Many of the perpetrators of the Sabra&Shatila massacre were likely to have been survivors or relatives of victims of Damour. It was eye for an eye stuff, the Maronites were certainly no worse than the muslim militias.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Jan 19, 2012 14:33

..you obviously have intimate knowledge of their motivations.

And do you approve of this primitive vendetta philosophy of blinding someone on a tribal basis because one of your cousins has been blinded?

Men women and children at random?Refugees?

Sure sounds thuggish to me. Not to you?

by A Freeman Thu Jan 19, 2012 17:23

... and are you suggesting that all 1 million or so Maronite christians in Lebanon are thugs? and all muslims are blameless (as usual), even the ones who carried out the massacre in Damour, why are they not described as "thugs"?

by what a twat Thu Jan 19, 2012 17:44

to get that from what he wrote - seriously - No SANE person could possibly read that into what he wrote

by Connemara Man. Thu Jan 19, 2012 17:45

Irish and European and American troops do their duty when confronted with neurotic murderers.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Jan 19, 2012 18:42

..at least see what you wrote, Freeman.

I asked a question, requesting you correct me if I was wrong. You reponded with your Old Testament justification of Sabra and Shatila. I responded to your answer and asked did you find it thuggish to so indiscriminately lash out at innocent men, women and children in a refugee camp. You then ascribe a distortion of my statement in typical whataboutery that indicates you endorse thuggery but haven't the gumption or honesty to face the consequences of your own sophist duplicity.

I think you just hung yourself out on your own line to dry. I'll leave you to swing in your ill wind.

And Con Man, Cromwell's troops were 'doing their duty' when they drove your ancestors into the badlands so they could comandeer the fertile lands for their decendants. Not unlike the Zionist settlers displacing Palestinians. Wake up in the west, the bankers are doing it to us now.

by Veteran Thu Jan 19, 2012 23:42

Wasn't this story originally "Progressive" Michael D now salutes Irish Troops occupying Southern Lebanon"

This is going way off the topic - Irish troops (nor any other UNIFIL troops) were nowhere near and never had a mandate for the Beirut area. Our AO and mandate from the government of Lebanon is south of the Litani river.

For the reasons expressed by a number of posters (muslims killing christians or christians killing muslims), we are almost always made welcome by BOTH groups and are seen as an impartial policing force.

Perhaps the main point here is that we, along with the other long time small contributor nations without colonial baggage like Fiji, Nepal and Ghana might actually be saving lives by being there instead of solving all the world problems on internet forums.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:53

..but would you agree that the excellent work done down the years, and the fine record established under the UN, is now being used as a shield as we slide into Nato replacing the UN in an increasingly imperial mode?Just as the aid industry is used to whitewash our predations on underdeveloped nations as we extract their resources through client elites.

by A Freeman Fri Jan 20, 2012 16:11

Isn't it interesting though that the massacre of Lebanese Christians at Damour is never mentioned on this site but Sabra and Shatila is raised again and again and again..... there's no interest on the part of the far left if it's Jews or Christians being massacred, typical "head-up-the-arse, how can we blame the Israelis for this?" complex of the Irish lefty!

I didn't condone either massacre btw, I merely put the S&S massacres of 1982 into a context of ongoing inter-ethnic strife in Lebanon and the propensity of all sides for carrying out killings of civilians. You can get back to Hezbollah TV now!

by Veteran Fri Jan 20, 2012 16:24

I would agree, I have also been NATO/PfP tours of duty, but thats another story.

The local Lebanese tend to trust the likes of ourselves or Fijians but greatly mistrust the likes of the French.

You will normally see a small nation commanding a UN force (Lt Gen Callaghan from Ireland past commander), while the Brits/US/Italians etc will have all the control in NATO forces.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Jan 20, 2012 18:06

I asked a question, once, for clarification(not being omniscient, unlike your infallible self). And how does that locate me on the far left?And what does the term mean?Do beam down your wisdom while I struggle to extricate my head and clean the shit from my ears. Am I Stalinist?

Oh, and that propensity for ethnic-strife and civilian killings...its inherent in these backward races no doubt and has nothing to do with the Balfour cuckoo and the ethnic cleansing and dispossession of Palestinians, Israel being a land of no people for a people with no land?

Methinx the shit is in me eye from reading your coprophilliac extrusions.

by Irishman Sat Jan 21, 2012 20:05

One picture can speak a thousand words - Tibnin orphanage, built with the help of Irish troops personal donations

So hated are the Irish occupiers that the kids even wear green white and orange!

by Joe - None Tue Jan 24, 2012 16:28

.....the Irish Army as a peacekeeping force is just that - they have to keep the peace. That means that they don't get the chance to do what

every young idiot soldier wants,, namely to take tha chance on getting killed in order to test themselves against other like-minded

fools. Sometimes the motivation to join the Army is not economic ,nor idealistic. It's simply a means to continue playing soldiers like

they did in the back garden. Then they get sent in as peacekeepers. All fired up, but no outlet for their desires. A bit like getting a hard

on at Mass.

by fred Sun Feb 23, 2014 00:29

Soldiers are just hired killers, that's all.

For every kid helped by soldiers for a PR stunt like these ones in the orphanage, 1000 are probably killed and dismembered horribly by other soldiers somewhere else.

Don't glorify these people.