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Yes: We're Going To Do What They Told Us

category national | eu | opinion/analysis author Friday June 01, 2012 20:00author by D Martyn Report this post to the editors

Fiscal Treaty passed with 60% majority

Like lambs to the slaughter the Irish people ratified the Fiscal Stability treaty by a yes vote of 60.3%. Even members of the parties advocating the yes vote admitted fear and confusion were among the reasons why Irish people gave into the demands of the government. As they threw around buzz words such as stability, growth, investment and threatened a harsher budget if the treaty wasn’t ratified, it’s no surprise their school yard bully tactics won out.

There’s only so much sympathy you can have for a nation who keep asking for punishment and allow the government and bankers to dictate to them. It’s one thing not taking to the streets to protest but when given a chance to change the course of a lifetime doomed to austerity and still not taking it, you have to think we only have ourselves to blame. With only half the nation bothering to vote the other 50 per cent have given up their right to complain.
There was little worry in Germany during the week as they correctly assumed we would do as we’re told. It is hard to shake the meek schoolchild inside that’s been conditioned to say yes to authority, yes teacher, yes Fr.,yes Taoiseach, yes , yes,yes!!! Just like the meek schoolchild the government had the people in the perfect weakened position to exert control over them.
They preyed on the fear and vulnerability of people already suffering severely from the governments’ previous actions. The government’s main argument being the treaty will provide stability and access to the ESM if we need it. What they didn’t focus on were the details surrounding this.
We have to contribute €11 billion to this in various forms of capital. In addition monies can be requested at any time and must be delivered within 7 days.
Conditions of the treaty mean the maximum structural deficit we could have is 0.5% of GDP. The Department of Finance estimates that in 2015, Ireland will have a structural deficit of 3.7%. In order to get that down to the required 0.5% they would have to cut spending by €5.7 billion.
The rules on structural deficits will be written into national law and will provide a proposed “correction mechanism” if they are not being fulfilled. If this is not done the issue will be referred to the Court of Justice and fines of up to 0.1% of our GDP can be imposed.
So how are we going to manage to stick to this agreement when we are already repaying interest on the first bailout and suffering cuts and increased taxes?
By suffering more cuts and increased taxes.Despite what the government seem to believe austerity and growth are in direct conflict with each other. To put it in simple terms for Mr. Kenny if you have a rope and you keep cutting it very soon there won’t be enough left to tie a noose. By writing austerity into law we are dictating economic policy for governments’ to come, who forever will be at the mercy of Europe.
So as the Taoiseach patronisingly thanks the people of Ireland for voting yes, commending the “understanding and pragmatism of the Irish people”,he can lighten the load he’s been carrying around and pass responsiblity on to Europe. Ensuring the nation they will follow Europe’s good houskeeping rules to ensure stability and growth, Kenny is in the position he likes best, a puppet on Europe’s string. He doesn’t have to stand up and take responsibility. He can play the meek schoolchild role as Europe tell him how to budget and all he has to do is say yes sir how much?

author by leftypublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 00:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and all the while raking in nearly 200k per annum. Mr Kenny wanted us to vote yes so he can keep creaming off our tax money for himself and his cronies for longer in inflated wages and perks while the poor suffer ever more harassment and poverty.

Kenny is a greedy selfish traitor. He sold us out to german banks, to shell and will sell us out to anyone else who wants to get a piece of our lucrative state utilities at firesale prices,( for a nice kickback no doubt ). Fracking? no problem!. GM food? No problem! Want our forests? bertie will sort that one out for you. Just sign on the dotted line and give us a nice kickback in a numbered swiss bank account. Nice.

Stupid frightened sheeple of Ireland, you get the government you deserve. Enjoy the next 10-20 years of emigration of your children, cutbacks to public services, and welfare payments, reductions in wages, while water/food/petrol/electricity/waste costs rise without regulation, greedy corporates take over our utilities and use us as a cheap tax haven, and continue paying up the ass for traitorous politicians wages for doing nothing useful.

And thanks a bunch for forcing your stupid decision on the rest of us too.

author by old dog on the roadpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 01:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Donegal constituencies rejected the fiscal treaty and we can put that down to (a) a Sinn Fein influence on voters, and (b) a feeling among Donegal people that the county is physically and mentally cut off from mainstream Irish life.

It is most interesting that a few Dublin constituencies rejected the treaty, and that one constituency accepted by a hairline margin of 5 votes. The ULA, Socialist Party and SWP activists can claim that they have some influence on voters in these constituencies. And in Dublin Central the non-Labour left and Sinn Fein activists garnered a lot of No votes in a close-run result. Sinn Fein also influenced some of the No vote in Kerry, Roscommon and Sligo-North Leitrim.

But that is about it. The left and Sinn Fein have localised, not national, influence. About 75 - 80 per cent of voters nationally take their economic cues from Fine Gael, FF and Labour policy spokespersons. Many of the Yes votes have been cast dutifully and without enthusiasm. Most people in their hearts really don't know what their economic prospects are in the short and medium term. The large abstention is due more to a Don't Know feeling than to the rainy weather on voting day.

The message for ECB, IMF and other sources of bailout funding is that the Irish electorate has said a Piddling Yes to the fiscal stability treaty. They may give us another Piddling Bailout as a reward.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

being due to a dont know factor.

as evidenced by post-vote vox pop. But if we had decent media analysis it would have been pointed out that abstention was a de facto Yes...and the confused would perhaps have gotten off their arses and said NO, not until you clarify your contradictory messages.

The confusion is sown deliberately...apathy and demoralised paralysis suits the manipulator.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Much of our "financial crisis" problem (in my opinion) stems from a MAJOR FLAW in our educational system (almost certainly contrived I suspect?), which has left just about every single person in the Republic of Ireland (and many other nations besides) COMPLETELY ignorant about (1) the extremely important matter of having a HEALTHY "national money-supply system", and (2) the way to go about putting such a system in place.

The ancient Greeks discovered (about 2,500 years ago) that a healthy nation's money supply needs to be a "creature of the law", that in turn the "law needs to be a creature of government", and, last but by no means least, that the "government needs to be a creature of The People", as in: FULLY under the control of "The People". (Please note Article 6.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann, the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland.)

Fortunately, and thanks to the Internet, it seems to me that we could now all (or most of us at least) very easily and very quickly overcome -- for ourselves as individual human beings -- the "major educational flaw" in question: if we choose to do so (as individuals).

This is particularly true for those who might be inclined to share the "Barry McKenzie" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_McKenzie) type viewpoint that "you don't need to know all the ins and out of a duck's a**e about this subject". Just the BASICS will do.

"Out of the Mouths of Babes: Twelve-Year-Old Money Reformer Tops a Million Views":

Though the "money-supply" information at the above "Common Dreams" www address is basically for Canada (and "The People" of Canada), it all applies -- more or less exactly (in my opinion) -- to the Republic of Ireland (and "The People" of the Republic of Ireland) just as well: as it does to "The People" of virtually every other nation on Earth.

Related Link:

author by The puppeteerpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 15:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The confusion is sown deliberately...apathy and demoralised paralysis suits the manipulator."
Yep, that's the way we did it alright Opie . Quite nicely I thought . Generally it must be said that the No side did put up a good show - it was quite amusing to watch them running around pretending to believe that they were ever going to win the referendum .But the outcome was never seriously in any doubt as far as we were concerned .With the likes of Richard Boyd-Barrett running the No Campaign ,we always knew we'd be able to slip it over on the turkeys.

author by anotherlambpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 15:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

we gave into the lies and spin of what they were putting out with the yes vote,this wasnt about stability and certainly not about growth,more rubbish buzzwords i agree.

since 2008 when we let the banks get their way,ie bail them out,that was i believe,our first mistake.

our second mistake was voting yes,we have also written into law the household charges,with these charges the rate of income tax should come down,but with these moneygrubbing feckers in the dail it wont,not unless we get vocal about it,which we are too complacent to do so.

what do i think is wrong with ireland,were too comfortable and were too complacent..

author by baa baaapublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 16:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a no voter I will have no sympathy when any yes voter bleats to me about their property tax or about cuts in their social welfare in decembers budget. They will get their just reward for voting yes and maybe after 5 more harsh years they will begin to question RTE and their false propaganda about voting yes for stability and jobs and other fairy tales.

author by The puppeteerpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 16:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"what do i think is wrong with ireland,were too comfortable and were too complacent.."

Yes , you are too comfortable in Ireland with all your social welfare , CE schemes unmarried mother benefits , free medical cards, pensions, cheap alcohol and the like. That will obviously have to change . It's encouraging to see that Irish voters have finally recognized the necessity for a fundamental shift of policy in the direction of fiscal rectitude. I think a good way to start getting the economy on its feet again would be to close down all the outlets selling cheap alcohol in your country . While in relative terms it has never been cheaper to buy a can of alcohol in Ireland , the latest figures from your Central Statistics Office show that more children were born in 2009 than in any year since 1891! This is more than a mere coincidence in my opinion. How is Ireland ever going to get on its feet again when its teenagers can't stop staggering around long enough to put on a condom?

author by anotherlambpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 17:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

living on cut welfare is hardly having it easy when you consider the average prices in shops and for other services havent come down in fact they have gone up,recently i applied for my driving test,and it cost me 85 euros it had gone up 20 euros since i did it last..absolute bullshit is what you are spouting the only PEOPLE WHO HAVE IT GOOD ARE THOSE AT THE TOP REMEMBER THAT.

author by anotherlambpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 17:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Although i do agree alcohol is a huge problem in ireland,and we NEED TO STOP,there are unmarried mothers who refuse to put the names of the father on to get more welfare,and that needs to stop,there is a lot that is wrong with ireland.I think our drinking culture and welfare needs to stop,we are of a complacent nature due to what our government are doing to keep us quiet.Another thing that needs to stop is ce schemes ive seen people defrauding the system spending over four years on a ce scheme,not to improve themselves but just to get more cash in the pocket,and not doing a tap of work.
Ireland needs to cop the fuck on,ive been to other countries where alcohol is banned and i think they are better for it,we NEED to do the same here.

author by The puppeteerpublication date Sat Jun 02, 2012 19:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Regarding "another lamb’s " first comment . As with human beings a country can take on a “national identity”, or as some would describe it a “national character” . This can of course ,as with individual humans , lead to a certain degree of assumptions and stereotyping , but it is nonetheless sometimes possible to discern certain traits within the collective psyche of the people or peoples that constitute a nation. Jealousy is a quality that would neither endear you to a person nor potential investors to a country’s people ,surely ? Yes , sacrifice must come from everybody in the coming period,and that would certainly include those in higher income brackets.

The people of Ireland have democratically decided to knuckle under and take their medicine . I take the change of tone in another lamb’s second post as a positive sign. Hopefully decent Irish people are at last beginning to wake up to the terrible waste of much needed resources that is currently shaming their country .

author by Poor personpublication date Sun Jun 03, 2012 07:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the cuts need to start at the top NOT the bottom. You two seem to be advocating more cuts at the bottom. What you forget is that low income earners (including social welfare) spend most of their cash in the local economy. take their money away and the local economy collapses further.

Corporate business just locate here to launder their tax bill and employ relatively few people to the amount of money they push through the state. Thats why GDP looks ok while GNP is in negative figures.

ok, accepting we are fucked, then the logical thing to do is to introduce a maximum wage. Let everyone without exception have an upper limit on earnings. This won't affect frontline staff who do real work and earn < 40k. However it will hit the fat parasite administrators and union leaders creaming it off for doing nothing. Fair is fair. No more cuts to the poor until the fatcats take their share of the pain.

Cut all political wages above 50k down to 50k. then give a positive bonus for useful work done, such as if our bank debt gets reduced or banksters get brought to justice, and a negative bonus for each election promise reneged on.

If they can't do anything about euro diktats then why are we still paying politicians exhorbitant salaries?? Why are we not slaughtering political wages which are well above european/world per capita payments.??

And tell me why the fuck is petrol still at 1.65 per litre when oil is at 100 dollars a barrel? there is no regulation in this country at all.

author by Contrarianpublication date Sun Jun 03, 2012 17:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Simple. If crude oil is $100 per barrel, that works out at about 63 US cents per litre. (There's 159 litres to a barrel.) Or in Euro cents, about 50.6 cent per litre. Then it gets refined and a litre of petrol leaves the refinery gate at about 63 cents. The Irish distributor and retailer add on about 11 cent giving a pre-tax price of about 74 cent. Then the Government add on 60 cents duty/levy/carbon tax and 31 cents VAT. Giving you a pump price of €1.65 per litre.

So in summary, it breaks down as 51 cent to find it and get it out of the ground, 12 cents to refine it, 11 cents to distribute and retail it and 91 cent tax. Now which bit do you think is the rip-off and needs regulating??

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sun Jun 03, 2012 18:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We could start with regulating the reduction of the Niger delta and its inhabitants to destitution and judicial homicide victims...

Your simplistic calculus leaves out a few factors. Like the price of selling democracies for brown envelope swallowing white-collar criminal elites.

author by Contrarianpublication date Sun Jun 03, 2012 19:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Interesting questions, opus, and laden with your usual rhetorical verbiage, but not what the poster asked. S/he wanted to know why petrol costs €1.65 per litre and suggested that regulation, presumably price-regulation, was needed. I gave a breakdown of the components of the €1.65 which reveals that by far and away the biggest and most controllable element of the cost is the government tax take. Simple question, simple answer.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Sun Jun 03, 2012 19:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Among the extraordinary set of "Money Power" dangers President Abraham Lincoln accurately foresaw for the whole of humanity (and not just the people of the United States) -- ALL of which our Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial), and our Main Stream Media, continue to COMPLETELY ignore -- is the following:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching which unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." From http://iamthewitness.com/news/2010.11.26-lincoln.htm

Why is our Government, and our Main Stream Media, completely ignoring extremely important information of this kind?

Far more importantly perhaps, why are they all ignoring the proven solutions President Lincoln put in place to prevent the "Money Power" from doing its worst?

Efforts to draw our Government's attention to this extraordinary state of affairs continue.

For the most recent update (dated June 3rd 2012) please see copy of e-mail at:

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jun 04, 2012 08:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I suggest you read the thread head again before you exercise your usual dictatorial usurpation of editorial responsibility.

Nor is their anything 'rhetorical' about the facts on the ground(and water) due to Shell's corrupt extractive practises, or the executions of the Ogoni leaders who tried to protect their people.

Keep on playing your simplistic games with your accountancy deck-chairs...some of us will persist in an attempt at the complexity of navigating such torpedos as your own numerological decoys.

The poster's question was far broader than your narrow jesuitical answer. Go check.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

"Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else."

"If we are to achieve a richer culture, rich in contrasting values, we must recognize the whole gamut of human potentialities, and so weave a less arbitrary social fabric, one in which each diverse human gift will find a fitting place."

The above three quotes are attributed to: Dr Margaret Mead (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead )

Related Link:

author by Contrarianpublication date Mon Jun 04, 2012 15:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I suggest you read the thread head again before you exercise your usual dictatorial usurpation of editorial responsibility. LOL, opus, Me wha’

Nor is their anything 'rhetorical' about the facts on the ground(and water) due to Shell's corrupt extractive practises, or the executions of the Ogoni leaders who tried to protect their people. Correct, opus. That all happened. But my use of the term “rhetorical verbiage” referred not to the Ogoni comment but to your “selling democracies for brown envelope swallowing white-collar criminal elites”

Keep on playing your simplistic games with your accountancy deck-chairs...some of us will persist in an attempt at the complexity of navigating such torpedos as your own numerological decoys. No decoy. Simple question. Simple answer. Is the world more complicated than 1+1=2? Sure. Does that make 1+1=2 an incorrect proposition? No. As you say yourself: Keep up.

The poster's question was far broader than your narrow jesuitical answer. Go check. I have. The question I addressed was: why the fuck is petrol still at 1.65 per litre when oil is at 100 dollars a barrel? That’s a very specific, precise question. I answered in a specific, precise way. You’ve seen my answer. Do you disagree? What’s your answer, anyway? To the poster’s question, rather than a what’s wrong with the world rant.

Oh, and we had an agreement that my handle is “Contrarian” not “Contra.” I did my part. Obviously you’ve renaged. And I thought you’d at least be a man of your word 

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jun 04, 2012 20:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

didn't think you'd be sensitive to my shorthand informality.

But I hadn't '...rambled off the point..'.

Its still the cost of petrol I was addressing. You are the one trying to simplify ad absurdum, personalise, act the moderator and blow smoke.

I aint playin.

author by poor personpublication date Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

fuel cost less when oil was at 140 dollars a barrel. the price of petrol goes up immediately but somehow takes ages to come down again when oil returns to a lower price. How convenient! Not a squeak from FG as they get their cut too.

Taxing fuel at that rate destroys the haulage business, puts a huge strain on local businesses who sell produce around the country, deliver or need anything delivered, cripples everyone who travels any distance to work. In a few words, it's completely anti jobs. It's a stealth tax that hits the poor worker proportionally much harder than the rich.

FG fucking the poor to pay themselves and their rich bankster friends again. Typical.

Throw these useless overpaid traitors out.

author by anotherlambpublication date Tue Jun 05, 2012 16:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and who would be a better political party in ireland?were not exactly spoiled for choice...the whole dail is fucking corrupt , as bent as a 9 bob note, who would you like to see in charge,and would it make a difference?

author by poor personpublication date Tue Jun 05, 2012 19:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Germany rules us now so why pay any of them?? They are only passing on diktats. Who needs a middle man?? Fire the lot of them to save some money. Its not as if we even notice it much when they aren't there over their long holidays. Now that they are powerles, what use are they??

author by W. Finnertypublication date Wed Jun 06, 2012 09:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Reply to "anotherlamb" at Tue Jun 05, 2012 16:19

The more I learn about the general political situation in the Republic of Ireland, the more convinced I become that the Republic of Ireland is being run by a bunch of hardened criminals, many of whom are also extremely ignorant in many -- if not ALL ways -- regarding the most basic principles of what makes a healthy government, and a healthy state.

The only hope that I can see, and I would agree with you that it appears to be a very slim one at the moment, is that a large enough section of "The People" might learn about the basic requirements of healthy government, and then go on to make sure that the criminals are voted out of office as soon as possible: and replaced by people who are something other than lying, treasonous criminals (at least!!).

Anything would be better than having a bunch of ignorant criminals running the Republic of Ireland (in my opinion).

We've got plenty of our own food, and plenty of our own oil and gas resources. We'd manage very well, I believe: if only we could find enough decent, honest people to replace the present bunch of corrupt, treasonous, criminal thugs in our present Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial): who are acting -- ALL THE TIME, MORNING, NOON, AND NIGHT -- on behalf of the Global Banking Cartel (i.e. the "Money Power"), and instead of on behalf of The People of the Republic of Ireland.

The "Money Power" in the Republic of Ireland Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) needs to be replaced by "People Power".

How to do that -- as soon as possible (if not sooner!!) -- by peaceful and lawful means, is now the BIG question for the People of the Republic of Ireland (it seems to me).

Related Link:

author by W. Finnertypublication date Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Puppet Masters And Their Characteristics ...

"Iago stands supreme among Shakespeare's evil characters because of his intense and subtle cruelty, perfectly combined with his exceptional powers of will and intellect. As a result of this, his motivations are unclear; however the innocent, loyal, and honest character Iago portrays to the others, does not reflect his true character. He is the ultimate puppet master. Every action is preplanned and manipulated for his audience to perceive him as this trustworthy decent man. Iago possesses such intelligence and acting ability that he forces others to act on and believe what he tells them. The other characters see him as what he wants them to see, and not for what he really is."

"The play (Othello) shows that the consequences of trusting someone who hides behind a mask of honesty can destroy one’s soul, ones spirit, and even one’s life."

And one’s sovereign nation state as well maybe, such as the Republic of Ireland for example?

The above excerpts (in quotes) are from: http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=6376

Related Link:

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sun Jun 17, 2012 14:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..this is relevant to the issues.


and the evolution of methodologies of social stratification and manipulation for vested ends.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jun 18, 2012 09:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Motivated largely by a long-standing (and growing) belief that psychopaths (with "Iago" type personality disorders) have far, far too much influence at the present time in places such as the City of London, Wall Street, Westminster, and Washington, I yesterday sent an e-mail to Dr Anne Jeffers (Consultant Psychiatrist based in Ballinasloe, County Galway) which made direct reference to the "Learning to become aware of the dangers of the 'Iago's of this world" comment at Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:24.

By "psychopath" I mean the kind of person which fits the following dictionary definition: "A person afflicted with a personality disorder characterised by a tendency to commit antisocial and sometimes violent acts, and with a failure to feel any guilt for such acts": as, for example, relating to the antisocial "bailing out" of the bankers -- at tax-payers expense -- in connection with the bankers "derivatives" gambling debts (debts which may be in the region of quadrillions of Euros overall), and, for example, in relation to the "violence" aspect of this particular personality disorder, with all of the ongoing warmongering during the past year or so connected with places such as Libya, Syria, Israel, and Iran: warmongering which has the extremely dangerous potential (it seems to me) to suddenly develop into a major thermonuclear WW3 type confrontation involving NATO countries on one side, and Russia and China (together with some other large nations such as India perhaps) on the other.

The full text of the e-mail I sent to Dr Jeffers yesterday, which was copied to several others, including a group of Republic of Ireland government ministers, can be viewed at the following address:

Related Link:

author by W. Finnertypublication date Wed Jun 20, 2012 13:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The excerpts just below below are from an e-mail sent about an hour ago to Consultant Psychiatrist Dr Anne Jeffers (who is based in Ballinasloe, County Galway, Republic of Ireland). The full text of the e-mail in question, which was copied to (among others) some senior Republic of Ireland lawyers and politicians, can be viewed at the www address included at the end.

"With reference to the most recent of the set of six e-mails referred to in the paragraph above, the one dated June 18th 2012 that is (which is item number 385 on the list), please note that I have very briefly attempted in that particular e-mail to outline my reasons for believing that it is a group of "Money Power" psychopaths -- with vastly excessive, completely inappropriate (from the viewpoint of genuine democracy), and highly dangerous amounts of "behind the scenes invisible government" type political power, which enables them to commit an extraordinarily wide range of extremely serious crimes against humanity as a whole, throughout the whole of society (from top to bottom), and to do so with complete impunity -- who are primarily responsible for 1) the "financial weapons of mass destruction (i.e. derivatives )" that are the root-cause of the present "global financial crisis", and 2) that are behind the growing threat of a thermonuclear World War 3 starting up at any time now. The main reason -- as I see things -- why both of these closely related developments (both of them for the most part wholly avoidable in terms of existing constitutional and human rights legislation), have grown so big and so threatening for so many (since 1948), is that the legal professions of several nations, particularly the legal professions of those sovereign nation states that have republican type "government of the people, by the people, for the people" kinds of written constitutions, such as the Republic of Ireland for example, and especially the Republic of the United States of America (still widely regarded by many as the most powerful nation in the world), are failing to enforce national and international legislation closely connected with the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (which I have referred to earlier under point 1 above): in response to, and for the purpose of protecting humanity generally against the wide-ranging and seriously criminal activities of the now virtually all-powerful -- and unelected -- group of Money Power psychopaths in question, and their many accomplices (some elected and some unelected) in our particular Republic of Ireland Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial), and in many other governments elsewhere all over the world."

"Later today I will place a copy of this email at the following address:
http://www.humanrightsireland.com/DrAnneJeffers/20June2...l.htm "

author by W. Finnertypublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As far as I know though, nobody (who is well informed) believes that the wholesale introduction of "Glass–Steagall" type Acts in the sovereign nations of the world will -- by itself -- solve the almighty global money-supply mess that the "Money Power Psychopaths" have now saddled humanity with.

At the same time however, more and more well-informed people (all around the world) seem to be coming around to the view that "Glass–Steagall" is THE essential "keystone", among a range of measures, which now urgently needs to be put in place: if the independent sovereign nation states (such as the Republic of Ireland for example) who wish to remain independent sovereign nation states, know what's good for them.

More on this subject can be found at: http://larouchepac.com/node/23252

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author by ACPpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Yes the most immediate step would be to reinstate and properly enforce legislation such as the Glass-Steagall Act - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act - possible, but unlikely.

The lack of regulation reminds me of an old Steve Martin bit: "Hi! I'm Fred. I have a bank. Got some money? I'll put it...um...I'll put it here...in my pocket!"

An even more important, albeit nearly impossible step, is to reverse the US Supreme Court's decision in Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 1886. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Sout...lroad The court granted constitutional protections to corporations as well as to 'natural persons' , afterthat a Corporation was, in fictional 'legal' terms, also considered a 'Person'.

This was the biggie, and the recent Citizens United case only a re-affirmation if this pile of steaming dog crap.

Also, though I'd have to dig a bit to cite, there were other decisions around the same time as the 1886 decision that re-defined the 'lifespan' of corporations. Prior to that Corporations were meant to be temporary entities chartered for the purpose of funding infrastructure projects and similar large-scale endeavors, and were meant to be disbanded once their stated purpoose had been achieved.

The problem with Corporate 'Personhood' is that unlike REAL people it is hard to punish a Corporation with the same punishments as a REAL person - for example it is not possible to 'jail' a Corporation - only it's officers - and unfortunately those Corporate Officers can usually manage to conjure up some form of 'plausible denibility' - so in the end a Corporation usually just ends up paying a fine for the same sort of wrongdoing that a flesh-and-blood human might be jailed (or even executed) for

Since Corporations can often live far longer than REAL people, they usually have plenty of reserves to cover such eventuallities

author by ecocidepublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Corporations also don't need things like a clean environment, clean water, clean air etc. In fact, a dirty polluted destroyed environment creates new markets for things like clean water, air filters, pollution treatment, pharmaceuticals to treat the symptoms of environmental poisoning, special chemicals to treat oil spills etc etc.

All a corporation cares about is profit, the bottom line. People need more than that. We need a functioning ecosystem.

Trans national corporations are clearly out of control and will destroy the planet if we don't do something to stop them.

They are now working in tandem with financial terrorists such as goldman sachs and JP morgan etc.

There is little hope if we don't address these institutions and limit their powers and rights.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 14:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Reply to ACP at Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:57:

As far as I know, the US Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is by far the most destructive piece of unconstitutional legislation in world history?

Get rid of the US Federal Reserve Act of 1913 -- and as it's unconstitutional (i.e. completely illegal and invalid) it ought to be easy to do so (in theory at least) -- and several other extremely serious social-problems around the world would disappear with it: including all (or almost all) those caused by large corporations, which are (in reality) largely owned by the same "Money Power Psychopaths" responsible for corruptly installing US Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and for and sustaining right up to today (that is, for almost 100 years now!!).

In practice, and thanks to the present extremely serious (but very well-hidden and largely unnoticed by the general public) US "oligarchy problem" relating to the US Supreme Court Judges (that is being powerfully mimicked by our own "oligarchy" of Republic of Ireland Supreme Court Judges) -- which enables the "Money Power Psychopaths" to commit crime with IMPUNITY all around the globe -- and humanity remains entirely stuck and bogged down in the present sickening and extremely dangerous mess that humanity (as a whole) now finds itself in.

"Another emerging oligarchy is the domination of the United States political leadership by people associated with Harvard and Yale. All nine members of the current Supreme Court attended Harvard or Yale law schools. The last member appointed to the court who was not a former student at one of those two institutions was Sandra Day O'Connor, appointed by the newly elected President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Reagan was also the last United States President who did not attend either Harvard or Yale." (From: http://www.humanrightsireland.com/InjuriesBoardIreland/...l.htm )

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author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jul 09, 2012 08:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"At issue is a bad (that is ENTIRELY ROTTEN) barrel, not a few rotten apples. Western banking is rife with fraud. The business model of major banks is grand theft."

"They're failing. They're zombie banks. The entire system is corrupt. It's crumbling. Barclays is in the centre of the UK storm, but watch out. Expect more globally, much more. It's coming."

"All major banks commit grand theft. It's standard practice. Corrupt politicians turn a blind eye. So do regulators. Western banking is rife with fraud."

"Barclays is the tip of the current scandal. Traders in London, New York and Tokyo colluded to manipulate Libor. Top executives and traders are involved."

All of the above excerpts are from an article by Stephen Lendman which was posted on 07 July 2012 at the following www location:

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 09, 2012 14:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..of major banks is grand theft.'

I believe its even more fundamental, W.

The underlying value system we 'bank on' is one of feudalistic land-grabbing by war and dispossesion of populations inconvenient to our centripetal imperial war-economies' accumulation of liquidated(monetised)resources; starting with the ground under our feet.

It extends from there into a legal system elevating individual and corporate claims on 'property' above any sense of collective or communal obligation or responsibility; never mind the actual fact that these resources are our collective human inheritance.

A redistributive tax system that accepted this reality could rectify this distortion by private interests...but the mega-corporations own the media by which such issues can even be discussed. Hence increased competition is prescribed as the remedy by those who already own the casino and its rigged 'trading' tables.

So, today, you have the Labour Party announcing that gay marriage is the 'human rights issue of our times'...even as a study shows 2 million people in Ireland existing on the breadline from day to day..

When did private sexuality become a central and burning issue in labour politics, to trump the obscene(and expanding) gaps between the obscenely and obesely over-resourced, and those struggling to find adequate nourishment?

If we are to ever solve it, we must get to the radical root of the Big Lie; the Lie of the landlordisms, and all that flows from its poisonous pollution of human values. If we fail to grasp this fundamental delusion and pin it to the wall, we will never realise an inclusive and sustainable society. The prognosis aint rosy. But the first task (if we take an island basis)must surely be exposure of the corporate wolf in Labour camouflage. While they masquerade as anything other than a middle-class sentimentalist useful cartel of thesbian luvies no realignment of politics can be initiated. This suits the background puppeteers(including those banking trusts)who can always usurp and co-opt any consequent insurrection which has failed to penetrate their layers of PR veils.

No value change, no evolution..we are locked on animal territorial reaction rather than taking the saltatory step to humanised post might-is-right claims. I hope thats not too obtuse.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Fri Aug 10, 2012 08:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Apparently the Fed and the Treasury have their panties in a wad over the New York prosecutor exposing the British bank, Standard Chartered, for hiding transactions to Iran."

The above excerpts are from an August 7th 2012 Article by Gary Anderson (http://www.businessinsider.com/author/gary-anderson )

The full text of the Business Insider August 7th Article in question can be viewed at:

Related Link (titled "There is far too much political power in the hands of psychopaths at the present time"):

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