Breda: Traveller's Life

by Jacqueline Fallon Mon Aug 06, 2007 13:48

It is a great pity so see such healthy and pretty children growing-up in an area, which is a health hazard and a rats’ paradise. These families should remove themselves or be removed from this site as they are risking their health by staying.

I’m worried about the rats, in particular, as the children handling the river rats are of great risk of catching Weils disease, which is potentially fatal if not treated in time (watch out for flu-like symptoms!). Children should be told to wash their hands every time they return inside from playing and everyone should wash their hands as a rule before they eat food or smoke. The children should not be permitted to run about an area where rats have urinated and that is everywhere, but that’s easier said than done (gloves should then be worn by them all the time they are outdoors and cuts should be covered with waterproof plasters).

It was a mistake to set up home near a river and with a sewage supply nearby - this is a rats’ paradise and you will never eliminate the rat population there just with mere rat poison, traps and bait - never! Covering rubbish bins and food with suitable durable containers and tidying up the place by removing litter and abandoned vehicles will assist, but as there is a river and sewerage supply nearby, then the rats have an ample supply of nourishing food (i.e. human excrement). The fact that you see rats out and about during the day means the rat population is already out of control (NB: female rats breed every 4-5 weeks and can have a litter of up to eleven each time) and rats by habit are nocturnal creatures, they don’t like coming out at daylight if they can help it.

Rats are a problem everywhere. I rent an apartment in a modern complex in Dublin City Centre, and like most apartments built beside rivers there is a serious problem with rats and always will be. I believe there are more rats living in and around this modern apartment complex than humans. They can be often seen in the evening gnawing through rubbish bins and concrete and they are not a bit afraid, they’d come up and talk to you if you could only hear them (rats make ultrasound noise which us mere humans can’t hear).

Rats have no problem gnawing through concrete (no electrical drill required here!); you only have to walk along the streets of the city to see the rat holes. Some weeks ago, I recently took a trip out to Dún Laoghaire and I could spot numerous rat holes in the concrete around the harbour and pier and near the footpaths, everywhere in proximity to a rubbish bin had a rat hole in the concrete and if you are observant you will spot them, and like me you will spot the curious rat’s head popping up to say hello!

Also, the Grand Canal Bank walk is a rat infested area. Some years back, I was walking home one night along the canal and what I thought at first instance were the movement of leaves around me, were in fact big fat river rats - big as rabbits they were, it would have been a good scene for a horror movie - if only I were the squeamish type! It always makes me cringe in disgust to see people eating their lunch beside the canal and leaving their sandwiches etc. down on the grass, or worse, to see children picking up dropped bread from the grass to feed the ducks, as the grass around the canal is saturated in rats’ urine, don’t people know this? Rats like everything to smell like themselves so they urinate everywhere; they also use their urine as a personal résumé to advertise their sexual availability, their urine reveals a lot - bit like a dating advert but with honest and accurate detail instead.

The travelling families should locate to another site immediately, preferably one that is not beside a river and does not resemble a rubbish tip and does not have an ample supply of sewage to feed the rats. The Council should address the situation and suggest a preferable legal site for them with all the necessary facilities. The travelling families have a right like everyone else in the country to a clean and healthy environment in which to raise their children. Good luck to them!

PS: They are lucky their homes have wheels!

by sandy - none Sun Aug 05, 2007 18:16 sandymcnally at yaho dot com

on the news recently,romanian travellers were flown home after their plight was revealed on the news,i feel for these people but i feel more for our own travellers who have to live in primitive conditions,to be honest as i watched the news bullitins i said "i hope these people are not taken off the road and housed" why should they be when our own travelling comunity are ignored,moved on and discriminated against.
i live in a council house where several travellers have been housed and they are very good neighbours and would do any turn for you,i would ask my traveller neighbour to paint my house or do odd jobs quicker than anyone else in the estate and the traveling people are delighted that i would trust them and take them in among ourselves and treat them like anyone else,with respect that they deserve.
one family in particular were delighted to be asked out with us for our engagement party but they were on edge incase they would be asked to leave the pub! i assured them that if they were asked that the rest of us would go along with them,these people dont deserve thiskind of discrimination,if everyone swallowed their pride and got to knw these people the counrty would be a better place.travellers dont want pity or charity just a place to call their own with clean facilities to live in, i call upon any td doctor or housing officer to call on the houses of settled travellers to see how they keep their homes, its a credit to them
and goes to show how a family can be just given a chance like everyone else.

by katharine Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:23

Second thread I have followed that seems
to end when Travellers have told us settled to get
sense
Travellers are not all the same
One of the most damaging ways i have seen people discriminated against is by not providing them with policing - this has clearly happened to settled communities in Limerick and Cork where the Gards for years have not responded to calls from certain areas
-the vast majority who want quiet lives end up being terrorised by the few bullies and thugs. Then to make it worse your child cant get a job becusae your from a bad area. I have met Travellers who say police will not come out to sites when called.

by jason power - navan Mon Nov 06, 2006 17:38

i think are culture should be treated as everyone else
i am not asking for mansions but read the story and think
to yourself would you live like this. jaon power

by rathkealer Thu Oct 12, 2006 15:33

i am a rathkealer and we are settled my girlfriend is a traveller and her family is settled none of ye know anything about travellers so fuck ye.just because a traveller hit u over ur dog doesnt condemn all travellers if a gorgie did it wa would you say

by Cottenham Resident Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:15

As you will see if you visit our village we have had more than a share of Traveller related issues here in Cottenham.
You must clearly understand that we are not racist. You must clearly understand that we have had a traveller site for 40 years or more.
While there has been troubles in the past between some of the travellers and the settled community, it is nothing compared to the situation we have endured for the last 12 months.

The Smithy Fen site had been in existence for about 40 years and, up until
February last year, contained 33 legal plots accommodating about 200 travellers
on a 9-acre site. Irish travellers imposed themselves on the English travellers,
driving them off in the process using a combination of hard cash and intimidation,
expanded the site to almost 20 acres and then set about marking out approximately
100 plots on the site.

Considering that the land is agricultural and holds a market value of £2000 per acre, it is our understanding that these plots are changing hands within the traveller community for upwards of £80000. That is some profit margin! also take into account that the site has no planning permission and is also greenfiled land and you begin to understand that this is a property scam of enormous proportions.

That aside, it is the manner with which they conduct themselves that is appalling. On the one hand the Irish Travellers claim 'discrimination' and breaches of their 'Human Rights' but they positively set out to ride roughshod over every rule of common descency and British Law. They oppress the village with 'mob rule' and God help anyone who stands in their way. They are rude, aggressive, and have no care for the settled community whatsoever unless they need something.

They defacate and urinate wherever they wish and yet they drive around in cars and vans that are the very latest models. They are immaculately dressed in designer clothes . The latest tactic that we have seen is that they no longer drive around in vehicles with Irish plates. They have swapped their Irish vehicles for new ones bought and registered in the UK. If they think that that will fool us for a minute, then they are mistaken. A change of 'clothing' does little to hide their loud music, their Irish brogue, their designer clothes, poor driving and lack of respect for the Human Rights of the villagers to go about their personal business and enjoy the amenities without fear.

If you want to read more then I understand a new website has been launched at http://www.middleenglandinrevolt.co.uk and there is more to read there.

I have no connection with the website but it was launched yesterday . Part of the above was taken from the website as it saved me having to type it all.

by Margaret Fri Aug 08, 2003 13:58

I recently read this article after it being recommended to me by a freind. I also know the people the article is based upon and the site where they live in Ballyfermot. I myself come from a mixed background in my mother being a member of the Traveller community and my father being from the settled community, so my views and opinions around both cultures are varied. Personally speaking I feel that I got the best of both worlds and would never condemn either culture in seeing the riches of both and also the downfalls. I myself lived within the settled community for 18 years of my life and within the Traveller community for the past six years. I think the article highlights the conditions many Travellers in Ireland over the years and today are faced with. It is good to see an article of this nature highlighting issues such as these rather than only looking to what people would usally read in the newspapers about travellers feuding etc. Everybody has a right to there own opinion even the lonegunman but he should not implace his opinions or views on the majority of Travellers. He has highlighted his opinions and views only on the negative and the little that he knows. He comments that the advantages of being a Traveller outweigh that of being settled, so why not live within the devastating conditions many Travellers live within. Why not give up many of the comforts you have within in your home and take to the road atleast you would have that choice. Many Travellers I know, not all as you keep highlighting with your reference to the Travellers in Rathkeale have no choice. They are living in poor accomodation would no sanitation because ther are no other options open to them. Many of them are waiting to be housed or halting sites to be made available to them for a number of years now. Many of them would gladly swap there living conditions for yours. I am not criticising what you have wrote but think if you are going to have anything else to comment on you should look at it with a bit more scope rather than being so narrow minded.

by mod Sat Jul 19, 2003 21:51

http://de.indymedia.org/2003/07/57555.shtml

by lone gunman Sat Jul 19, 2003 13:25

Try reading somthing by Neitzsche and Shopenhauer.Not some website where any shite can be published.Please give us the link as well.I would like to see it.

So if there is no connection between Hitler and Neitzhe.Why was Adolf always quoting his[Neitzsche] Ubermensch theories ?Obvisouly Joe Collins has read and understood Thus spoke Zarathusta [sic]?
A book that has kept German academics in jobs for years,trying to disprove his racial theories.

All three Neitzsche,Heidegger and Schopenhauer belong to the CORE of Nazi phillosophy,and Aryan superiority.The idea of the Aryan Ubermensch is much older than Nazism BTW it goes back thru history in Germany.The Thule society was proably the first version of Nazism,with all its trappings and pseudo science.hitler simply took it over as a convient vessel that suited his and the German ideals.It even is to be found in Wagners operas ,like Gotterdammerung or Parsifal,or Die Neibulungen.Wagner himself was also a great beliver in the Aryan ideal But no doubt you will deny this as fantasy.Despite it being recorded history

Now Joe Collins,I suggest you go and re read my posts on my views of travellers.If it is too much go and get Mummy or Daddy to help you with the big words.If you could be botherd that is.

by Joe Collins Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:05 Cork

Somebody posted that Adolf Hitler drew some racism inspiration from the writings of Arthur Schopenhauer, along with those of Friedrich Nietzsche. I think that is highly unlikely. The only reference I could find to this connection was on a web site, and it was a mis-print! The article actually referred to Martin Heidegger's writings, and not those of Schopenhauer. But then again, most of what was posted by that same person (the so-called "Lone Gunman"), looks like it was of doubtful origin. Even his obvious hatred of Travellers appears to be confused by feelings of envy that some of them do so well for themselves.

by lone gunman Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:42

Mutts AKA 57 varieities in the dog world are usually smarter,more resllient,and live longer than thouroghbred dogs.
every dog has its day.The mutts get the long weekend.

by Seáinín Fri Jul 18, 2003 02:20

It's only real meaning is linguistic, just like Aryan. We're all a bunch of mutts like the yanks, except our provenance is undocumented.

by Lone gunman Thu Jul 17, 2003 23:52

For at least listening[reading] to my opinion.It would be more helpful if folk did that more on this board.Listening to each other,rather than calling each other names.But then if you have been called a facist,nazi idiot so many times.You tend to get a bit foul mouthed[keyed?]yourself.I think alot of them are very young and inexperianced in life,or so rooted in a belif system that anything that isnt status quo or black and white is anethema to them.Life is shades of gray .Once you recognise that the better off you are.I just play Devils Advocate and try and hopefully get people to think around here.
No, I dont think racisim was a big thing in Ireland.I remember when the first Cubans arrived here and they were welcomed in the Eighties. It has been made an issue by Liberal thinking and guilt encouragement.
On the chosen folk,pity three major religions are all claiming that title on a spot of land in the middle east,that has somthing we all need.Oil.
As to who are the good stewards of the land.
in a hundred years you and I wont be here.But the land will be and it will know who was a good steward.


Silly question.You ever hear the saying American by birth.Southern by the grace of God?Actually a redneck was a cowboy,who had done a long cattle trail drive.usually wore a red kercheif to prove this.So I would consider this a honouary title,as much as being called a cowboy.Who was a fiercely independant,straight talking preson.Unfortuneatly it has been lampooned by Hollyweird into a shotgun carrying,dungaree wearing,snaggle toothed,trailer livin semi literate idiot.Actually that is much a racsist as anything else.but no one gets too upset about that.Why? Cos it is acceptable racisim.

by Silly Question Thu Jul 17, 2003 21:57

If the Travellers are Irish or Celtic as far as their nationality or race goes...wouldn't the discrimination against them be considered class (or even cultural) discrimination as opposed to race discrimination?
In the US there are many poor white folks who are discriminated against because of class..people in the inner cities of Detroit or Philadelphia, as well as rural and mountain folks. Although there are many racialized and offensive terms for poor white people in the United States (white trash, oakie, redneck ect..) I don't think that anyone would ever try to say that they were a seperate race.

by Mr Angel Thu Jul 17, 2003 21:20

"Where do we stop carrying around this chip on our shoulders of oppression?"

Good question. My raising the issue and fact that the conflict is deeper and broader, and actually world-wide, was not so much a point but to raise the question and bring it to the table. Or perhaps the point was to get at the roots of the conflicts and past all the name calling, which you've seemed to have done and done well. Ya, I agree about factory farming. When I think about those chickens by the thousands, and salmon by the tens of thousands, all cooped up in little bitty pens breathing their own and the others sh**... Ewww, Yuch, Gagg... and then of the massive doses of antibiotics needed just to keep them alive.. it pisses me off how stupid, short-sighted, callous and careless people can be.

I'm glad that you can see that disrespect of the land and the earth is a global problem, 'cause ... well, because it is. Let's leave ethnicity out of it though, huh ? I happen to be jewish by birth and somewhat by faith. What means more to me, though, is that I'm considered an Elder in several circles. The ancient wisdom often translates to our times, sometimes well and clearly, and sometimes with much thought, but to extend the situation or scenario of a whole people from 2000 + years ago to now does me and others a discredit. Let's stick to the 21st century, using what wisdom of the ages we can, huh ?

... You're makin' me laugh with your asking if God was a racist .... Yeah, I can see that racism still an issue over there; here, and with my generation and the younger, we're mostly moving beyond that. Yeah, here discrimination still happens ....

No, God was not a racist, that quote addressed those people in that place and in those times. Some, Jews and Christian both, are stuck in the past, but not me. Judeo-Christian-Islamic ethic .... no, it's teaching this time, not ethic, says that God is alive. Regardless of who or what group professes the reality of God, I believe it. Point is - Of COURSE your opinion, thoughts and ideas are important !

"With rights come responsibilities." I agree 100%. If only more of the world would adopt that simple tenet this world would be a much better place.

Thanks for the clarity of the situation there, and I appreciate that you have the courage to be honest about what you see, think and feel.

And no, I don't think you're a racist. Your raising the question with explanation why you do makes me think otherwise.

The situation there seems sticky. I personally don't give a d*** if you're a WASP or a dwarf aluit ( a native Alaskan ), but wish to leave you with the question that I had before.

-

by Cru Thu Jul 17, 2003 19:49

The term "ethnic group" does not classify the Travelling Community properly. the Travelling community, since they began with the McDonaghs of Sligo one thousand years ago, chose to be travellers and to form that community. all travellers are Celtic in origin, just as the majority of people in Ireland are. all travellers choose to be so, so why do people try and convince others that they are different and that they should be treated specially by every one. it is evryones choice to live their life their own way.

by Lone Gunman Thu Jul 17, 2003 19:10

Claiming somone has a "right" to use your front garden to graze their horse on it.BTW I am talking of a patch of grass 20x20 ft appx in the middle of a housing estate,in a city. Since you are posting from the USA .Would you be allowed to keep a horse in the middle of Manhattan?
Allow it to wander around to graze at will in public&private property.Not be too overly concerned as to its welfare?And then deny any ownership if it causes damage or injury? Like HELL would you get away with that.Doubt even in the country areas would you be allowed that.But travellers have that "right" to do this because of their "ethnicity".

This really isnt a dispute about land or lifestyle.If you want to be a traveller,new age or otherwise.Fine by me.But please then respect my "ethnicity".Dont expect to sponge of the settled community,cheat or otherwise put them out of sorts.This is more about the unwillingins of one community to pull its weight in a modern world.
yes,they are entitled to the basics of water,sanitation,etc.But not to go and trash the facilities provided,poor that they might be.Sure you can go to a bar and drink,but not go and total the place and then go off to a lawyer and whine about being discriminated against by being not allowed into the same bar the folowing nite and getting monies or compensation under "equality" laws.With rights come responsibilities.

I am a bit lost Re your point of the decline of farming nos in the USA and Ireland.I agree that large [cant call them farms.]Agricultural factories are the worst things that can happen to a country,and you ignore the farmer at your peril.
All revoulitions coming from the land,and all that.[Mao]The EU was the worst thing Ireland could ever have gotten involved in INMHO.But we took the monies and now we pay for it.Just like the "new deal" in the thirties. But this is a bit OT.
As such the country is abused by both settled and traveller.I would have more respect for the Roma gypsy [Although they were considerd throughout europe as undesireables through its history].But at least they had trades,etc which were useful and were and are more earth concious than our lot.Also the American Indian.I have great respect for them and knew and met many in my times in the USA. Yes indeed they had a rough time of it,so did the blacks,the Irish,everyone.
But, where do we stop carrying around this chip on our shoulders of oppression?

I am a WASP,and redneck and damn proud of it.
I dont own any slaves,and neither did my ancestors.[Although they were proably deported to Austraila or the Carolinas to work as such.]So I cant feel guilty about about what happened 100plus years ago.Does that entitle me to compensation from the British govt because my ancestors were deported as white slave labour? But if I was a " oppressed ethnic minority " or had a different skin color.SURE it does!

Nowadays it is just easier,especially in Ireland to whinge about rights and expect to be handed them,and this is what is pissing off most of the settled community here RE things like travellers and illegal aliens.They come ,they get,they take,they are given.They are seemingly getting better treatment under the law,social welfare,etc a better deal than the rest of us.You try to point out the difference.You are immediately branded a racist,facist,nazi,etc.Ok call us this, then we will act like one then.

BTW you must be the first person posting here who has asked an OPINION of anyone else.

As for God loving the world.He got a bit picky as well,what with the chosen people,giving them the land of milk and honeyand all.Does that make God a racist??

by Mr. Angel Thu Jul 17, 2003 17:54

It seems the same here in the usa as there. The names are different but the situation the same, there are those who put their names upon land, claiming it as their own, and there are those who have not.

The roots of these conflicts are ancient, from times before the Travellers and the settled. Though the names Travellers and The Settled are refreshing to me, for they point the way towards those ancient roots, the conflicts rise from times before there were the Travellers and The Settled.

I do not write from a lofty tower, Lone Gunman, for I have no land on which to build one. It is the love of the land, and the love of the Earth, from which I write.

Tell me, Lone Gunman, is it more the kids who trash the land than these families and communities as a whole ? I truely ask of your impression, your ideas and your thoughts on this, for I am ignorant and not ashamed of ignorance.

Are there responsable stewards of land among the Travellers ? Are there irresponsable among the settled ? These, and the reverse, of course, are what truely concern me; it is love of the land, and of the earth, that I write.

The first class division of humanity was about 12 thousand years ago. About that time rose hunter-warriors and farmers from hunter-gatherers; before then we were all hunter-gatherers.

I'll leave you to figure which, if either, is civilized.

Here in the usa about 2.2 % of people are still farming. Before WWII it was about 60%. Before 1900 it was about 90%. I'll look up the statistics for Ireland ......

... Here's what I got. In the year 1950 1,994, 000 people of Ireland farmed and 1,775,000 did not.

More than 50% in the year 1950.

In the year 2000 387,000 people farmed, and 3,416,000 did not, roughly 11 %

The statistics on Ireland come from http://apps.fao.org/page/collections?subset=agriculture - Long term series ( decennial ).

The trend of less farmers is the same in the us and in Ireland. In Ireland the farmers may yet have more voice than here in the usa.

Here, there or anywhere - Are the voices of Farmers voices that we can afford to have outshouted or afford to ignore ?

I have seen the disconnect from the land grow in my lifetime, people blaming this faction or that, faulting this politician or that public figure, the other outspoken citizen or someone who just got in the way. Who of you who blame speak and write equally or more of your own responsabilities ?

Who are good stewards of the lands, and which individuals among the population are not. Those are the questions that trouble me, not the names that you claim, the names you deny, and not the heritage of your families or your clans.

Who are the good stewards of the lands ?

If I remember my bible correctly it was written that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. It did not say God so loved humans. The world.

Who are the good stewards of the lands ?

by Lone Gunman Thu Jul 17, 2003 14:17

In todays Irish examiner www.examiner.ie
letters section.title sleepless in kilkee.A holiday horror story.
That describes EXACTLY what the settled community of Ireland think and have to put up with.
Of course no doubt he is a racist ,ununderstanding,pavee hater like me and all the rest of us.There is A FACT in that letter for you mr Angel,and as per usual you are argueing the left way.No Facts insult your opponent.Why is it that everything that doesnt fit the liberal world view is racist?I'll excuse your drivel about anatomical matters. You obvisouly have never had to live ,associate or had your house robbed or family threatened by these "poor oppressed minority".I will post links here to any story in the Irish media I can find to prove that. Maybe you should get out of your lofty tower awhile and come and actually live here and have to deal with these people on a daily basis.
Seanin
Good on your Da.

by Mr. Angel Wed Jul 16, 2003 23:44 Earth

I suggest that you look deeper and broader for the resolutions to the problems that you see.

"I am posting some facts about traveller life that no one seems to want to accept."

You did NOT post facts. You posted your opinion and you did so in a derogatory and insulting way.

You posted your opinion and repeated the opinion of other named and un-named parties. What I refute is your opinion and therefore need not respond to your demand for "facts".

"That they arent as oppressed as they make out to be."

That may be; as an outsider I am beginning to get a similiar impression but, as I've suggested, look deeper and broader than name calling and racism for the solutions. I've never accused them of angelisim, but have temporarily stepped into such a role myself. It seems that among the Travellers is a phenomena that is occuring world-wide at an excellerating rate, and that is the unweaned making much too much lazy assed noise demanding to be fed.

Don't be too quick to exclude yourself from such as the unweaned, Lone Gunman.

Why do the ignorant make the most noise ?

As to your targeting "the Left" with fault :

Before left and right have any political meaning they have real anotomical meaning.

Use your whole brain, Lone Gunman.

I don't recommend going through ones days a half-brain to anyone. No, not to anyone at all.

Why do the ignorant make the most noise ?

by sbw123 Wed Jul 16, 2003 22:38

Am I to feel sorry for the Travelers? They're illegally squating so of course the living conditions will be substandard. Perhaps they should enter the 21st century, learn to read, and settle down. Nomadic life isn't easy and the world has changed quiet a bit since nomads were the norm. Sounds like the Travelers are making life hard on the themselves.

by Lone Gunman Wed Jul 16, 2003 21:54

Good on you Joe Collins for giving the Shopenauer quote.Remember that goes both ways.Funny you should quote a GENUINE Racist[Hitler based alot of his racial theories on him and Neitzhe sic] to back up your weak arguement.You are right I am NOT alone.AND WE are getting SICK of the way things are going in Ireland.The times ,they are going to change.BTW I hope those kids are also encouraged to record the dark side of their "race".
Mr Angel.How do I argue against myself?I am posting some facts about traveller life that no one seems to want to accept.That they arent as oppressed as they make out to be. BTW if you want to prove me wrong refute my arguements with FACTS[if you can get any].I am getting bored with name calling of racist ,facist,etc.If you want not to sound like a bunch of small farty school kids repeating like parrotts their first dirty word they heard. it would make a change. But then it is the Left way of arguemnt.Insult your opponent when you have no factual arguement.

by Mr. Angel Wed Jul 16, 2003 19:11 Earth

Does superior mean tossing in an extra word or two, and being too lazy to check your work before you post ?

I suppose that superior also means posting incomplete sentences ( unlike new-age traveller ) so that no one really knows what you are talking about.

Just to be clear, Lone Gunman, you argue against yourself.

Just to be clear, Lone Gunman; wise it is that you have never claimed to be superior to the travellers. Wise it is because it is so obviously not the case. I suppose that isnt too difficult to understand, is it ?
===================
Thank you for the personal accounting, new-age traveller; I for one am experienced enough to recognize that it is more an accounting and little if any of a campaign. I sincerely hope that others can recognize the difference and that even more can learn to value each for the values that each can offer.
===================
P.S., Ya'all,
Native Americans are Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals are Australian Aboriginals, Travellers are Travellers. These peoples can and do speak for themselves, much to the contrary of the impressions left by those too rude to listen.
===================
Perhaps Lone Gunman knows nothing of differences between agression and superiority. Perhaps Lone Gunman understands little but his guns.

by Joe Collins Wed Jul 16, 2003 18:59 Cork

The original article by Dave which attracted all of these comments was a wonderful piece of ethnographic research. Well done to Indymedia for providing a space for writing like this, and to the person who posted it. I am also interested by the variety of comments which follow the original article. They are worth copying and pasting for future research of early 2000s Ireland. The views of the lone gunman, and the twisted thought processes which validate them, are not unusual in Ireland today. Many people think like that, even if their views are not always so hateful. Many who speak and think like this appear to believe that they are right, and are dismissive towards people who have an alternative view, like Kate.
I know some Traveller parents in Cork who encourage their children to keep a diary of daily events in the lives of their families, so that they can tell their grand children what Ireland was like when they were small. Comments made by people like the lone gunman should be recorded and remembered as reminders of how Travellers are being stereotyped in Ireland today. Some young Germans already find it difficult to accept that Nazi propaganda attacked the Jews with similarly weak logic and stereotypes.
Arthur Schopenhauer, the 19th century German philosopher put it well. "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as being self-evident." To Kate, and the other excellent contributors above, the truth of what you say is already accepted as being self-evident by all thinking journalists, politicians, judges, and others who have a real influence on the lives of Travellers.

by Lone Gunman Wed Jul 16, 2003 13:37

Aussie,Travellers are basically like your Aboriginies,or American Indians.Just we dont have any reservations to keep them in.

Erin the trouble is that you are seeing this thru good ol American liberal rose tinted glasses. Come over here and LIVE here and watch some media reports of how these people live.Any more of which occur I will post here.Good for them that suceed .They are marginilised by their own like sucessful Afro Americans.Does the term Uncle Tom or Wigger mean anything to you? It always cracks me up to listen to whiney American liberals wanting to solve all the worlds problems and you cant even solve them in the US!!
Lets see the usual term of racist is bandied about because the truth and reality hurts.
Never claimed to be superior to the travellers.
But I suppose I that isnt too difficult.

by Indymedia Kevin Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:22

Travellers are an ethnic minority in Ireland. Follow some of the links posted with the original article to find out more.

Say hello to Adelaide for me

by aussie Wed Jul 16, 2003 07:01

i live in aus and i just kinda stumbled here, so um.... what is a Traveler?

by new-age traveller - new-age travellerdom Wed Jul 16, 2003 04:42

Erin, Killian and all,
I should like to add a few notes on misconceptions of new-age travellers and the "lifestyle" thereof.
'Choice' is the big word indeed, many go on the road in their teens, as myself, and there's no return thereafter. It's a choice, but not so easy to skip back on after 15 years. Society in general and even your closest family can be most unforgiving, 'going back home to yer Ma and Da' can be a painful readjustment if even possible. Many if not most of my traveller buddies were abused or beaten as kids and ran from this- the only family they have is their road family. Others were completley disenfranchised after serving in the army or working as labourers and would have stayed homeless and alcoholic had they not met and joined a new-age traveller community. Others, still, live as travellers out of principle, they cannot conform to the hypocrisy of modern standards and survival.
The NAT network is massive, I've been on sites from the Czech Republic to North California, and often I bump into the same people thousands of miles from where I first met them. I do seasonal work and occasional stage-rigging, so I'm always on the move, pay my own way, and I do not have a home. My above mentioned story of the scrap on the M1 is true to my sometimes sentiment that the Indiginous Irish Traveller community conducts itself like the Mafia of the road, that they have their own particular prejudice for anyone else who lives on the road that isn't "connected".
"Cutting your hair and putting on a suit" doesn't exactly automatically give you access to the job you want, likewise changing your accent and your last name. The difference is that refusing an applicant for their accent or ethnic background is illegal, refusing them for being a transient is not. Once, in a U.S. court, I was refused representation at a barring-order hearing because I was technically categorized as a "drifter". Another time, when I lived in England, I had two traveller friends deported as they had registered at a known squat in Worthing, they were only staying a week for Christmas!
I'm not trying to give off sob stories... most of the sites I live on have no plumbing or electric, but we do sort out solar panels and compost toilets, and we share everything we have. A lot of us go South for winter- I go to Mexico usually and read and study on the beach. Loads of my UK and German buddies go to Spain or Greece and practice their performance pieces for the Summer festies back North.
There're signs I still see in bar windows, in London and in California, "No Travellers". Course it's illegal to discriminate in the US so one imaginative bar-owner had a notice on the door stating "No Patchouli"....
Whatever the case may be, it may take a few generations before the new-age traveller community becomes officially recognized and noticed as an "indiginous ethnic group" in order to be on par with the Pavee!

by charlie Wed Jul 16, 2003 03:40

It's interesting, the Travellers sound a lot like the Native Americans, aka Indians, here in the states. I've lived on Indian reservations and I've come to the conclusion that they, like the Traveller's camps, pretty much resemble inner city ghettoes & their problems are much the same.

As far as I am concerned the best way to help any of these people is to help them gain autonomy from the government and the superstructure of the state, basically. As in the people who felt that they needed electricity to live, or those who spend so much time and money on vehicles. A matter or helping people understand that they can be free of all the stuff they're conditioned to accept from the present fucked up economy.

Folk like Lone Gunman or whoever are just being racist, best ignored if you ask me.

by new-age traveller - new-age travellerdom Wed Jul 16, 2003 03:02

Killians response was indeed most enlightening and the most balanced post above in my opinion, and I am very appreciative... I admit I am learning something. Also, an apology to Kate, I did not mean any kind of personal injury, I think what your doing with the literacy tutorials is great and positive work, keep it up. My tone in yesterdays post may have been triggered in part by a superior attitude of "I know better than the lot of you" by either one of us...
Alas, Killian, though I am very literate and speak four languages, tis not so easy to get a job and fit in directly into society, (nor do all new-age travellers have long hair)- any display of transiency on a resume is treated as suspect, and a "No Fixed Abode", (or even any ties with a known site or squat), can disqualify you from opening bank accounts or even getting a library card. One of my big questions is, of course, why is there not protection and consideration for ALL transient or rootless people? Why make it the cause of just one ethnic group?
Also, so far as being born Pavee to have to be Pavee (I prefer this term, but must think on the appropriatness, thanks)- obviously Breda's mother was not born so. I think to reinforce my previous argument I should note that Ireland has had its very own Pavee Olympian champ, and it's encouraging to learn their group can now represent itself with one of their own in courts. Okay, so I concede to most your points- though I do ask all readers to keep in mind that Travellers Rights do not simply end with Pavee, or Romany, but all people of The Road.

by erin Wed Jul 16, 2003 02:53 St. Paul, MN--US

...how much race arguments mirror across the ocean.

As for adopted identities, Kate's point about choice is well-taken, and, I'll warrant, rooted in a history of racial/ethnic discrimination.

NAT, while you may encounter unwarranted resistance to your own lifestyle, and while you may consider your lifestyle to be similar to that of Travellers, this does not make the problems you face synonymous with those faced by Travellers. It is admirable that you choose to face the resistance you see, but at the same time, you have a choice afforded to you by a social structure that rewards folks who are not born Travellers, and penalizes those who are.

As for the "lone gunman"... cripes sakes. Wonderful to know these kinds of folks reside over yonder as well. Kind of an "international experience," you know?

LG---okidoke. There's crime, and child abuse, and drugs, in every freaking community. Some folks are just better-equipped to hide it than others. Suppose you shoplift, and from that the public assumes everyone of your race are shoplifters. Doesn't happen, does it? Or, better yet, when a Traveller succeeds despite all the obstacles before them, and AFTER the allegations that this success must be crooked, that person is "a credit to their race." LG, you ever been called "a credit to your race" because you've succeeded? Doubt it. This is called racial privilege.

So a few people succeed... good for them! All the more impressive, considering how many more hoops they get to jump through as compared to the average white joe. Doesn't mean that they STILL don't face racism every freaking damned day ('scuse the french).

anyway... my $.02 from the american racial experience, anyway. Thanks for the excellent article all.

by Killian Forde Tue Jul 15, 2003 14:56

NAT - your couple of posts are interesting and the basis for a good debate. I think however that you are looking at Travellers from a slighly different view than I would.

For a start, yes to be a Traveller, you do have to born one. A Traveller (in the "Irish Travelling Community" sense" is defined by someone who is born into the group. Ethnicity is involuntary ie the person has not made a choice to be a Traveller. I think that much of this confusion lies around the fact that people lokk at the word Traveller as a verb and not a noun. If Irish Travellers were commonly refered as Pavee (the Cant/Gammon) word for themselves who this make it easier.

The importance of this point cannot be overstated, as the crucila differnce between, for example you and a Irish Traveller is the issue of choice. You choose to live you life travelling an and you choose to take the good and the bad that goes with that choice. If tommorow you wanted to change your lifestyle and 'settle down' you could and your re-integration into 'settled/normal society' could/would be realtively painless and, without knowing your personal circumstances, successful. You cut your hair, put on a suit, apply for paid regular employments jobs, stay and use your families address and hey presto you are know a 'regular valued' member of society. I am NOT saying this is what you should do just pointing out it is a real option.

An Irish Traveller on the other hand does not have the same choice. For them to achieve equlaity, as in be treated equallly and without discrimnation, they would need to hide their very identity and pretned they weren't Traveller, or a Pavee. They would have to do what you did, but would in addito have to change their accent and in cases their name.

The reality though is that this isn't an option, Travellers in ireland are routinely blocked from settling by all manners and means. Even take the example of cases wherby Travellers on the housing lists are routinely blocked by local authorities from living on 'their' estate. Ok some would say that Travellers should not rely on the state and buy their own property, think about the criteria needed to get a mortage and how many Travellers use the banks as a means to store and protect their assests. Renting land from owners in rural areas has been tried (in bothe roscommon and leitrim) recently and the council has moved the families on due to the illegality of the land being agricultural zoned and by putting a caravan on it it is being used as residential. Of course much of the pressure to move the famlies came not from the DPP or state solictors but local residents.

NAT there is no quick fix solutions that Travellers can undertake to be appreciated by settled society, they do undertake valuable work (such as recycling) but it is not highlighted, and the only stories and images that the vast majority of settled society see are extremly negative.

On eduaction, Travellers do educate their own children, but the sort of eduaction that is valued by our society is not one that many Traveller parenst are equipped with and therefore are unable to pass on to their children. NAT you are obviously literate and can use a computer and the internet, this is not the case for the vast majorority of Travellers. Things are changing and the younger generation of Travellers are now leaving schools are an older age and literate. In addition Travellers and in particular recent parenst know the importance of formal eduaction and are much more active and demanding of schools in their childrens eduaction. Travellers will no longer accept that their children be dumped down the back of the class with a crayon and coloring book to be left while the kids with 'potentail' recieve the attention of overworked teachers.

Travellers increasingly know and understand the importance fo their rights as citzens and more initatives about Travellers righst are organiclly led, ie from Travllers and by Travellers. A good exmaple would be the recent launch of the Irish Traveller Movement legal unit, a young Traveller Davy Joyce who heads it and will become the first ever Traveller barrister.

I could go on (!) but I want to try and stimulate so alternative thinking on the "traveller problem". I think we all agree that relations between Traveller and settled is shit, the question is how to move forward, improve relations and end you with an outcome that Travellers are not longer; dying younger, being more likley to be unemployed; have similiar litercy levels, have access to water and electricity in their homes etc.

by lone gunman Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:34

If you claim that Travellers in Rathkeale are highly transient buisiness traders[PC speak I suppose]. Us settled community,have them as well.They are called busisness executives.Does that give them the right to act like criminals at any given time then?As for having a house and being a traveller then you really are not a traveller then.You now have a fixed abode,and therefore legally obliged to obey the laws of the land in relation to the ownership of property. As for travellers going to America,good for them.Wasn't one traveller woman caught on CCTV beating the crap out of one of her kids last year?The familliar Irish traveller whine cut no ice with a US court.And proper order too.Child abuse is child abuse.BTW I would read a book called Lisence to steal it is written by a Roma gypsy on the cons and scams carried out by the Romas to gain monies in Europe and the USA.In Ireland a traveller would whinge that they were being oppressed,and there would be an outcry of liberals,and the traveller could go back to clobbering their kiddies.
Lets face it there are some things that the settled community find disgusting about travellers and untill travellers change their ways.They will be always treated like second class citizens.

by new-age traveller - new-age travellerdom Tue Jul 15, 2003 02:34

Let's not get hyper-defensive as we'll back ourselves into corners here. I'm all for tolerance, integration and equality and by no means am I proposing anything as a rule. I'm merely suggesting that if the Irish Traveller Community applied some imagination to its lifestyle and opened themselves to positive and well-intentioned help things could certainly improve without any State support whatsoever, and thus cancel and make void any criticism against them.
I've stayed and travelled with Romany's, Gammon speaking vaggy's, Mexican 'Ungaros', Carny people and Bauwageners, and yes, I've stayed a few nights with Travellers in Kerry once and in Clare another time. I'm no expert perhaps, but I'm a Nomad and I levitate to nomadic people, I'm not 'uninformed', for sure. I've stayed on immaculately kept Romany sites in the UK where they lease the land for their horses and still live out of their barrel-tops, making pottery and crafts and doing seasonal labour and fairs. I've also stayed on new-age traveller sites where everyone is on sick-benefits and still beg to support their communal heroin intake... so I certainly know there is no rule.
A big difference, and my point of contention here, is that many of those who live the same way are not categorized as "ethnic minorities" and therefore do not fall under the same protections. Championing the Indigenous Travellers' cause I find slightly hypocritical when neglecting the particularly nasty time the new-age traveller "Blow-ins" had in West Cork through the 90's. The Dept of Equality and Law Reform will readily protect an Indigenous Travellers rights to lawfully and socially imbibe on any public premises, but try the same with dreadlocks, holes in yer clothes or a doggy on a string.... And if you care to state that "new-age travellers" are not culture/community/society, I can prove you very very wrong.
As per a comment above, yes, this article is great journalism... but it doesn't mean we just have to eat it and be content... that's why there's a comment forum, perhaps? Noticing the front page features, there's a Homeless man and a Traveller family now... but no continuations.... what type spectacle is the objective? I see the pictures above and I see a family living directly under high-power lines with a burned out car nearby--- what a shithole! Is this land 'occupied' or assigned for travellers? Why are they there in particular? And for how long? If they can't move and consider this their home wouldn't that make them, dare I say it, settled people?
Do you have to be born a Traveller to be a Traveller? What of free will and choice? This is why I'm wary of highlighting the differences of "minorities", are we not all capable of anything we want to be? I am for the idea of an OPTIONAL alternative to state schooling, ie. bender schools, in order to perpetuate and understand their own culture- not all life and learning is Algebra and Catcher in the Rye--- there's plenty to be passed on in the Traveller community about plants, dogs, horses, car repair, songs, stories, trail-finding and scavenging even. How can you say to me, Kate, that Travellers are not capable of educating their children? Who is really the naive one here? Are you a traveller? (sorry, with a capital T). Why make martyrs of the Traveller community and thus alienate them from us even further? Who says all Travellers can't read or write or ever find their way to the internet? Is that not again misjudging their capabilities?

by kate Tue Jul 15, 2003 00:03 cork

Something else I meant to raise in my earlier post but i got ranting and sure there was no stopping me.

Not to sound insulting, but its obvious that your knowledge of the Travelling Community is at best limited. Home education is not an option for the majority of Travellers who are either illiterate or do not have the necessary literacy skills to teach even to basic primary level. Support systems are in place to aid the education of Travellers but the problem ultimately lies with the Settled Community.

The suggestion of segregated education is also an over simplistic solution, a kind of 'sweeping it under the carpet'. It has long been excepted both in Ireland and Europe that the best way to ease racial tension is to provide both integrated and intercultural education for all. A real problem with the system is the lack of understanding by and training of teachers with regards to cultural difference. Then there is also the issue of the cultural inappropriatness of the curriculum. The gradual phasing out of segregation has been hailed by those working with Travellers as a vital step in easing tension and building relations.

Other suggestions on how to erridicate the rat problem are of use I'm sure to all the Travellers who can read and have acess to the internet!?!, However I suspect that what the author was trying to highlight is not how bad the rat situation is but how bad general living conditions are. The aim I think is to outline the way in which the state allows people to become so excluded that they find themselves in this situation. Rat burning perhaps is not the key to a raised standard of living though I'm guessing Charlie McGreevy would see it as the the most economically viable solution.

I don't mean to completely slate your opinion, it is of course yours, but i think the real issue is not Breda's hard life but the hardship endure by many Traveller families.

by kate Mon Jul 14, 2003 23:08 cork

Its a long road but hopefully we'll get there in the end. I talking about a recognision of the basic human rights of the Travelling Community. Lads I don't see what the problem is. Travellers have human rights, rights to water, sanitation, refuse collection and so on. They also deserve not to all be tarred with the same brush.

With reference to Rathkeale Travellers and new vans and jeeps perhaps some research before mouthing off would save some face. Rathkeale is where the most affleuent of Travellers live. Like any minority group there are rich and poor amoungst their ranks. Rathkeale based Travellers are hightly transient traders. They are based in Limerick for the winter but often travel to the UK, Germany and even the US to conduct trade and business in the summer months. When your gonna be gone for most of the year and everyone knows that, your gonna alarm and lock up your house. So they're sucessful, is that not allow. Fact remains however that Travellers as an indigenous ethnic minority still score lower on every measure of disadvantage used in the state. To make it easier for you. Some Travellers aren't poor unfortunately alot are.

Speculation about who pays taxes and who doesn't is I think futile without evidence and is only heresay. As a literacy tutor with Travellers however I will say of all the friends I've made within that community there are not many (especailly the men) who have the necessary literacy and numeracy skills to fill in forms and returns. And speaking only for myself I know if the state left me and my family on the side of the road without even water, evicted myself, my relation and friends from numerous sites and made me feel unwelcome everywhere in my own country I would be rushing to give them my hard earned cash.

To finish, Travellers are citizens of this nation, whose way of life dates back to pre-christian Ireland. Citizenship is based on a set of rights and obligations. When your rights are completely disregarded what effect does that have on your perception of your obligations?

Its a sad reflection on our little nation that this even has to be debated. The same misconceptions and labels were attached to African-Americans for years but now there is little dispute about how wrong those labels were. I hope that some of the people who have posted here will realise that they have posted racist comments. I hope also they will move to rectify this unacceptable stance.

by Lone gunman Mon Jul 14, 2003 18:46

By doing an honest days work?Paying their taxes,rates,PAYE ,PRSI,insurance,etc,etc.Wont get a country mansion that way or a fwd.
Or by
Diddling the labour,ignoring paying any tax or insurance in any shape or form,intimdating old folk with dodgey "repairs" to their property .Knocking off said country mansions of their contents. Claiming "racisim" and "dicrimination" and getting payouts supported by professional liberal hand wringers,dodgey diesel rackets,drugs.Putting a downer on a private house[appx 25k,where did they get that?] then going around the neighbourhood "suggesting" to the settled community that they might move again for 150 Euro per house. 150 times 60 houses 9 GRAND.Well documented cases of this in Limerick.If not, a caravan and four horses are immediately installed in the property.There go the settled people house prices.
Said it before ,say it again.Being a traveller has more advantages than disadvantages

by Albo Mon Jul 14, 2003 16:14

Seanín,

They probably get it in the same place that settled folk get the money for their country mansions with mod cons and broadband internet access, and *their* 4wds.

by redjade Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:01

Great job Dave! Thanks for taking Indymedia.ie where it has not gone before - What I love about this site is that more and more, it seems to me, it is covering things from unique perspectives and stories barely touched by the mainstream media. To add to that, Dave's stories are personal to his subjects who explain a larger story - wonderful stuff, Dave :-)

by Dell Gribble Sun Jul 13, 2003 01:45

Is censoring the posts.There was another post from Seanin that has disappered.wonder why?

by lone gunman Sun Jul 13, 2003 01:40

For the nitpicking limerick 1919. If it isnt high st.But then you DO know Rathkeale? and you DO know the area I am talking about.Let me describe it to you .go from main st Rathkeale up towards the Heights.cant miss it ,it is all the houses that are alarmed barred,and shuttered,with fine antiques on display in the front windows,and the caravans in the driveways.no i didnt hear it in the pub I've SEEN it and maybe you lot might belive it if you actually go to Rathkeale and actually ask some of the settled folk what they think of their traveller neighbours.But that might upset your preconceptions of the oppressed travellers

by limerick1919 Sun Jul 13, 2003 00:53 limerick1919 at hotmail dot com

There ain't no High Street there.

But how could you be expected to know that,you shouldn't believe everything you hear in the pub.

give an email address and i'll be happy to send some up to date information. There is a form on the page.

Looking forward to hearing from you

your biggest fan

L

by IMC Editorial Group - IMC Ireland Sat Jul 12, 2003 23:32

To the person that was wondering why this story disappeared....it was indeed a harmless reason - in order to work on creating the feature, we have to temporarily hide the story so we can add links, check out if the pic looks OK on the page etc. Then once the feature is ready, we put it back on the wire. To anyone with editorial queries like the above: please use the mailing lists, rather than write a newswire story. You get a better, 'official' and direct answer, and you don't push a real story further down the newswire. If you're on the mailing lists, then just send an email: if not, use the 'contact' link on the top or side (left) menus and don't forget to fill in your email address so we can get back to you. (Daithi)

by a "New-Age" Traveller - new-age Travellerdom Sat Jul 12, 2003 02:46

A charai,
In 1999 in a small convoy up the M1 to Luton, one of our vans broke down, we were stalled in the hard shoulder, our 3 vehicles. Suddenly another convoy of 5 very nice looking land-rovers halted in the slow lane, stopping all the traffic behind... heads loomed out of the windows at us, they'd spotted my friends lurcher and wanted to bargain for it... they were Dids...
"How much ya want for the Lurcher?"
"Dog's not for sale, she's our friend"
I stood at my van door where the dog was visible, but without further negotiation a fist came flying out, hit me square in the chest and I hit against the van with the wind knocked out of me. A friend smacked the assailant on the head through his window, all doors open, and a roadside brawl ensued...
We lost a lot of blood that afternoon, but not our dog. When the Landrovers sped off all kinds of people stopped to see if we were okay, a mix of London folk, Pakistani Moslems, Bristol Carribeans ad so on, and as we tried to explain what happened, I being the only Irish amongst my friends, felt ashamed that these were Irish travellers who had just attacked us for... a dog...

But I'm not a hating person, and I've some advice for the "Irish Travelling Community" (though I find the whole term an oxymoron... each word)...

1. Rats- Asides from keeping a clean site and cutting back the undergrowth, there are better methods than poison to rid them, and this from experience... burn them when you capture them, spread the ashes... they can smell death that way, and carbonized ashes can not harbour disease... I learnt this in the jungle, works perfectly on snakes and scorpions also... this is neither an urban nor houswives legend, it works
2. Toilets- i've been on sites where the compost or even makeshift alternatives are an improvement to being on a city-shit-tube network. It's simply a matter of selecting the right distance and depth. Use ash and sawdust to break it down faster (and cover the smell after each use)... use rat ashes... rats just love shit.
3. Schools- I might seem a little radical here with this one... but, Don't send your kids to Ballyfermot or Bluebell. Why? Sending traveller kids to a city school with other kids they only know at home to identify as "gaujo's" is creating a tremendous rift in their identity. It brings them only an early introduction to inequality, injustice and subsequent bitterness and anger. Why confront them with standards their home community is struggling to spurn? Solution? Bender schools or home-educate, I can dig up more info on bender schools in the UK in interested. It will allow at least a sense of a whole community before integrating, if they wish but not as a rule, into state education. This might seem harsh, but if you want your kids to have all the benefits of the state educational system otherwise, get on a housing list.

So far as the other stuff- boulders on common land, localized discrimination, welfare office fuck-arounds, Garda harrasment etc., I can't say I'm no stranger to it myself... and I travel! But it's part of the way the world is turning today, and it's getting more ugly... living at the side of the road you can only see the worst at times... but you have the option to move, right?

by kate Fri Jul 11, 2003 20:27

Just a small thing but important. As an (indegenious) ethnic minority the word Traveller takes a capital T. I know, I know but its the least we can do.

As for the Lone Gunman, never one for the sweeping generalisations!!.Heres to his ever insightful posts on indymedia. So many flaws in your arguement I dont no where to begin but to be honest Im not gonna be bothered cos I know your only tryin to get a rise out of people.

Good simple insightful piece of writing and typical of the expereince of the majority of Travellers

(Dave: Thanks for the correction Kate. Big T's are now in place)

by iosaf Fri Jul 11, 2003 20:13

other articles on travellers:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60331
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60116
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=50396
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=49282

on Travellers in the north of ireland:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=10443

and from the Features Archive (I think this story above deserves to be a feature too)
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60002

& thanks Killian for getting "a quick thankyou" in before the abuse starts.

by Killian Forde Fri Jul 11, 2003 19:54

Gunman,

You say you would "rather be a Traveller"!

Would you rather die 12 years younger than your settled neighbours?

Would you rather not to be able to read or write?

Would you rather have a snowball in hells chance of getting regular paid employment?

Would you rather live in on the side of the road with over a 1,000 other Traveller families and be under threat of evicition at any stage?

Would you rather having to engage with people like you on a daily basis?

Would you rather spend months being dicked around by the local GPs and the health boards for a medical card for your ill mother?

Would you rather experience hostility and exclusion in all manners of services for your life time?

Would you rather live in England as their they will only think you are another paddy?

Gunman your comments are typical reactionary illinformed nonsensical stereotypes of Travellers. The fact is that since the 60's Travellers in this country has been shat on and vilified by the state.

I leave you with a question.

What you would have rather seen spent twenty years ago?

a) €45 million (in todays terms) spent on providing proper accomdation for all the Travellers living in the country

b) Countless hundreds of millions on placing boulders all the country, erecting fences all along main roads, paying for security on car parks and playing fields, paying millions in taxes for Garda 'protection' and for eviction, purchasing and erecting thousands of "traveller traps", paying for the bills on medical card patienst of thousands of Travellers in poor health due to unsuitable living conditions....etc...etc

by Lone gunman Fri Jul 11, 2003 18:26

Who dumped all the rubbish there? The traveller way of fighting with offensive weapons to sort out their differences.The fact that they can afford 03 4wd trucks or vans , drive with no things like tax or insurance,or such things that bother the settled community?That they can get away with mutilating a little girl with a car,while attending to a family fued and then intimidate the kids familiy out of their house and home and not be proesecuted by the law of the land?That they can wreck pubs and hotels with impunity while with "drink taken" and then whinge about discrimination if they are refused from the same pubs& hotels or better still get "compo" for being discriminated against? How they can keep horses and other animals with such cruelity that you would be prosecuted if you were a settled person?
Check out Rathkeale High st,Co Limerick.Those houses are alarmed and shuttered All the houses there are owned by travellers.lived in appx three times a year.Value of antiques therein and property appx a million apiece.Kept as showpieces.Families live in the caravan on the street.
All in all I think I would rather be a traveller these days.The benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

by as do many other Travellers Fri Jul 11, 2003 18:06

.

by Killian Forde Fri Jul 11, 2003 17:17

well done dave. good to see organic stories like this and the starbucks story on indymedia.