Breaking News: World Economic Forum have cancelled their October meeting in Dublin

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:05 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

The World Economic Forum summit due to take place in Dublin in October has been postponed. The Government expressed its disappointment by the decision to reschedule the Competitiveness Summit which it now intends to run in conjunction with its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.
The World Economic Forum summit due to take place in Dublin in October has been postponed. The Government expressed its disappointment by the decision to reschedule the Competitiveness Summit which it now intends to run in conjunction with its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

The Government expressed disappointment by the decision to reschedule the Competitiveness Summit which it now intends to run in conjunction with its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

Responding to the WEF decision, the Tánaiste, Ms Harney, said that the Government had been very willing to host the Summit and was disappointed that it would not now go ahead.

"The Dublin Summit would have presented an ideal opportunity to discuss important issues concerning competitiveness in Europe. In the light of the WEF decision not to proceed, I hope that the WEF will continue with a special focus on Competitiveness during the Davos Summit in January next year" said the Tánaiste.


APOLOGIES FOR CUT AND PASTE FROM IRELAND.COM BUT BIG STORY

by sinister anarchy plan Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:13

Does that mean it's going ahead in January in Dublin or Davos?

by Janus Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:13

Chased those people out of Dublin and only took a couple of meetings.

by lish Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:25

i'd rather have it here where we can do something about it, like letting people know what it is.

by GR Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:35

Globalise Resistance Press Release:
Globalise Resistance, an Irish anti-capitalist network is claiming victory over the World Economic Forum.
Joe Carolan, from Globalise Resistance said,

‘ The World Economic Forum has been driven out of Dublin by mounting public pressure. Thousands of anti-capitalists had planned to stage blockades and a massive march against the organisation which has been dubbed ‘ nearest thing that globalisation has to a world headquarters’.

‘Planning for these protests had begun months ago and anti-capitalists throughout Ireland had come together on a number of occasions to co-ordinate their activities. A February 15th style demonstration to Dublin Castle had been planned for the Monday when the conference was due to open. The main slogan of this demonstration was thought likely to be ‘Shut down the WEF’.

‘Contact had been made with a significant number of unions, community groups and anti-bin charges campai
gners. This mounting pressure became known to sections of the media last week – the Sunday Times and the Evening Herald in particular – and the organisers of the WEF clearly decided to pull the plug.

‘It is unprecedented for a conference of this magnitude to be pulled at such short notice. The excuse the WEF are using that their Global Competitiveness Report was not ready is nonsense. In their prior press release they had stated that the aim focus of this discussion was on a report they had published known as the Lisbon Review.

‘The WEF is a discredited institution that has literally been driven back to the mountains of Switzerland so they can plan their strategies to enforce privatisation and de-regulation.

‘Anti-capitalists in Ireland will now be shifting their focus to a massive anti-war demonstraytion on September 27th and the Irish Presidency of the EU next year.


http://www.freewebs.com/o2o

by Janus Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:45

I am actually impressed that Joe managed to get that press release out without once mentioning the Irish Social Forum. That's not sarcasm either, it's a genuinely difficult thing to do, to take the credit for work done by others and marginalise them so completely as to erase them from the news cycle.

In terms of media skills, top marks comrade.

Anti Capitalists Defeat the Night

Joe Carolan from Globalise Resistance said: 'The Moon was driven from the sky this morning by mounting public pressure orchestrated by grassroots activists across Irish society who came together under the banner of Globalise Resistance without the help of any other organisation, group or individual.

'Globalise Resistance had been planning for several hours to drive the Moon and its capitalist agenda from the sky to make way for the sunny rays of socialism. At about 6am this morning the Moon, intimidated by the literally several GR protestors, was forced to withdraw, solely as a result of our work.

'This marks another massive advance for the left in Irish politics and is a clear indication of rising paper sales and the inevitability of the revolution. Globalise Resistance will now turn to ensuring that September takes place despite the wishes of the capitalist leech class and their efforts to halt time. We will not rest until we are successful in this too despite the sectarian ridicule of fringe left wing groups like the Labour party whose only claim to fame is that they have support from real people. When September comes, people will know it is because I said let it be so.'

Next week, Joe says 'Let there be light'

by Ray Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:45

While I'm sure the anti-WEF protests would have been great, I'm equally certain that the WEF organisers had never even heard of o20, much less been so scared they were driven out of the country. Its like me declaring that Mike Tyson is too scared of me to come to Dublin. I said I'd beat him up if he ever showed his face around here, and he never arrived. Clearly he was terrified of the beating I'd give him.

Is it too much to ask for GR to have some connection with reality? Do they think anyone will take this press release seriously? Do they think anyone believes that 100,000 people were going to turn up outside Dublin Castle to protest the WEF? Do you guys never get even a little embarrassed by this kind of carry-on?

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:50 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

You're a pretty scarey fucker Ray so maybe Tyson is genuinely unnerved.

Seriously, the GR claim of victory is a little embarassing and the abscence of the ISF being mentioned somewhat glaring.

That said, I don't but the WEF's excuse either. A better explanation might be that the Dublin Government bottled it. Think of it, fast forward to October, mounting job losses, increasing anger, a focus for all that increasing anger happening to be positioned in the centre of Dublin.

Add to the mix a police force which we all know wouldn't have been up to the job and a Government reeling from continuing attacks. Throw in a Trade Union Movement actually campaigning on issues such as the No Fares Day today and Aer Rianta.

Like Ray, I doubt the WEF knew anything about O20, but the Government did, and maybe they bottled it.

by lish Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:54

reckon if it has definitely been cancelled we should go ahead with a no borders street party/carnival to support immigrants & an alternative globalization summit highlighting the alternatives to neoliberalism. my problem with the gr press release is being told what i'm concentrating on now.gr cannot speak for all anti-capitalists, only for themselves.

by Hebe Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:54

Minutes of Trade Union Working Group of ISF Outreach Group 16-7-03



Next meeting: 18.30 sharp, Wed. July 23, Liberty Hall



Attendance:

Des Derwin; Ian McDonald; Marnie Holborow; Willy Cumming; Anne Speed; Dathaí ÓDualaing; Ciaran Moore; Joan Collins; Dennis Keane; Stephen Lewis; Brendan Young.



The initial discussion on the issues the TUWG should campaign around revealed broad agreement: privatisation of public services, attacks on jobs and working conditions, and service charges. In other words, neo-liberalism as manifested in Ireland.



It was argued that if we opposed neo-liberalism, we should also oppose social partnership. After some discussion there was agreement that this might be better taken up implicitly at first, rather than explicitly – given differing assessments / understandings of social partnership, and the balance of forces favouring it in the TU movement and amongst NGO’s;



and that we could use arguments against neo-liberalism and globalisation as put forward by Irish TU leaderships and their international affiliates in relation to underdeveloped and dependent countries as a basis to argue against support for such policies here.



There was agreement on a need to link issues arising in Ireland with struggles overseas; eg – Pakistan and the Spanish state.



The CD produced by Ian McD was welcomed as a useful resource, with a suggestion that a companion guide suggesting ideas as to ways to use the CD would be a useful addition.



It was agreed that a leaflet composed of quotes opposing neo-liberalism, supporting the international social forums or supporting the counter-summit events by persons who are well-known internationally and in Ireland would be useful. Marnie H undertook to produce a draft for the next meeting.



Willy C undertook to bring material from Public Services International to the next meeting, where appropriate material could be selected for use in articles / propaganda / ISF trade union information pack. The ICTU video ‘The race to the bottom’ was mentioned as a useful discussion focus for both trade union and other meetings.



It was agreed that the TUWG would aim to get articles on the WEF and counter-summit into as many TU journals as possible – approx 400 words being appropriate (but longer features may be possible if journal editors are approached in advance). Draft articles would be circulated for trade union activists to use as appropriate.



As only the ATGWU, CPSU, CWU, IMPACT and SIPTU were represented at the meting, it was agreed to approach people in other unions with a view to getting the counter-summit raised more widely.



It was agreed that the TUWG would work towards getting a high-profile panel discussion at the counter summit - including Irish and international trade unionists and speakers from other backgrounds.



Des D suggested a number of possible seminar / workshop themes, which were considered to be a useful way to relate various aspects of neo-liberalism to the reality of life in Ireland:





“Competition: the opposite of trade unionism”
“The EU agenda: neo-liberalism or a social Europe?”

“Globalisation and the flight East of jobs.”

“Social partnership with privatisation, deregulation and social spending cuts?”

“Globalisation v. international trade union solidarity”

“Competitiveness: the race to the bottom”

“Aer Rianta, CIE and bin charges: globalisation in our own back yard?”



(Some are alternative titles for the same general theme).





It was agreed that a direct approach to Trade Councils, TU Branches, district / regional committees, and national bodies requesting sponsorship for / participation in the ISF should be made. Brendan agreed to bring a draft letter to the next meeting.



Anne S suggested making an approach to union leaderships for sponsorship of specific projects / events during the counter-summit, perhaps in the form of provision of meeting facilities, paying speakers fares, etc. It was agreed that the following would be suitable themes around which such approaches could be made:



Globalisation and workers’ rights

Neo-liberalism and education

No-frontiers Europe / fortress Europe

Privatisation



This was not suggested as an exhaustive list – it can be modified or amended. It was agreed that we would come to the next meeting with suggestions as to how such themes could be turned into events with a trade union input.



It was agreed to try to have an ISF stall at the SIPTU conference in Galway in August.



The meeting was positive, constructive and good humoured. With luck more people will be able to attend future meetings – there’s a shedload of work to do!





Minutes taken by: Brendan Young

by iosaf mac diarmada - 5º Fri Jul 18, 2003 16:57

now would the red block answer the question posed yesterday morning on freedom of speech.

Since yesterday the red block story has gone to the front page of ireland imc.

since yesterday the W€F story has gone to front apge of uk imc.

since yesterday the Catia TV story has gone to front page global imc.

so, dear Richard (or whoever your successor is),
what do the SWP think about the closure of Catia TV?

and don't even dream that GR pressurised the irish state.

Interesting things happening in Dublin in October will include that math lecture, and a few musical offerings.

Mr O' as if
sends love
to the Mammy Harney.

by 5º - 5º Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:05 us at our dot disorg

you really are very very silly.
let us al look back and reflect as they say.
Jan 22.
2003
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?id=25085

by maalox - original source crew Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:09 maalox at safe-mail dot net

The following is the text of a press release issued today by the World Economic Forum in Geneva -


The World Economic Forum has taken the decision to postpone its European Economic Summit until the Spring of 2004.


Originally scheduled to take place in Dublin, Ireland, in October, the Summit was to have focussed on European Competitiveness. In view of the fact that the Forum's Global Competitiveness Report 2003-2004 will be published only in November, the discussion on the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the 25 countries of Europe can better be held later in the year in order to take the latest findings into account. The World Economic Forum's second Lisbon Review which tracks the progress of European Union members in meeting the criteria of the Lisbon agenda established in 2000 will also be released at the same time.


The World Economic Forum will be incorporating the findings of both reports into the programme of the Annual Meeting in Davos in January. Issues of European competitiveness arising from the studies will be discussed at that time.


ENDS

by maalox - Swift like a sparrow Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:13

...on Joe Carolan's unilateral declaration of victory.

by virtual warrior Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:22

If anything alerted the WEF and the IRLGOV to the possibliity that having the WEF in Dublin was a bad idea it was the way in which the ISF was involving such a broad swathe of civil society in the effort to confront the WEF and its love of 'competition' -

by iosaf - back to being silly and harmless Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:33

a timely review of the Mammy Harney's ambition.
It has been anounced today J18 2003
that the W€F shall not after all
be discussing capitalism and it's competition.

There will after all be no movement from rhetoric to action or will there?
Ireland has seen a great upsurge of interest in the agenda of the various global alternative movements. Co-operation has increased between most of the political groupings accross a wide spectrum on approach to issues at home and
abroad.

So let us not waste that energy.

Dublin still has a housing crises.
it deserves an Autonomous Centre.

Ireland still has considerable holding and influence over Biotech development and the intellectual patent issues related to same.
And the Irish people deserve to know the extent of the work done under the personal support of the Mammy Harney since 2002.

So over the next months we look forward perhaps to hearing much, learning much and meeting long lost friends.

Meanwhile an interesting article has appeared on the global imc newswire list which you see sometimes on the right of your screen.

It is entitled
TEST.
and was published J18
it shows you argentina's imc. Yesterday argentina met the Spanish state to discuss investment in it's future under the slogan "normalisation".

If you go the aritcle called "TEST" you will then go to the argentina imc home page. Which indeed abounds with that little symbol @.
That is a clue that imc is an anarko-collective.

You are all welcome here whatever your political religious ethnic or cultural background, but remember that here in open publishing land we discuss anarko-normalisation.

We answer calls to international solidarity and we take the piss.

and because we don't have leaders, centralised command structures, membership lists, or contribution buttons, it can be very difficult @ times to appreciate just how many of us there are.

but there are more than will ever fit before the GPO.

well done everyone in doing their best to make that particularly anarchist speciality which is "Background Noise".
Thank you Gardaí of Eire.
Thank you Evening Herald.
and thank you RBB for exposing yourself as such a "espatachín" at those vital moments.

We still have work to do.

by Joe Sheehan Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:38

Come on Mr. Carolan, time to be real it was nothing to do with GR or o20 or whatever title you are going to call yourselves.

by Acid Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:38

that energy has to be put somewhere esle, can I mention the arms trade fare which will be held in england in mid-september. Plenty of reasons to travel to oppose it. And its pretty cheap to get over...

by Ciaran Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:40

its infinitely more important than the silly debate about an SP/SWP merger.

Goes to show that ISF type set-ups have far more influence on the powerful than SWP front groups like GR etc.

by ec Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:45

No Story as yet original to IMC on wire (except for Mr o as if which would probably frighten people)

by Sinn Féin Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:52

Cancellation of WEF Summit welcomed by Sinn Féin

Commenting on the decision of the WEF to cancel its planned meeting in Dublin Sinn Féin EU candidate Marylou McDonald said:

"The cancellation of the World Economic Forum summit, scheduled to be held in Dublin this October, is to be welcomed. And indeed a secret sigh of relief must be echoing through the corridors of Government buildings this afternoon after it was announced that the Summit was unexpectedly cancelled. Despite Mary Harney's expression of regret at the WEF decision its clear that the summit would have provided the perfect focus for the increasing numbers of Irish people voicing their opposition to the global economic policies espoused by Mary Harney's
Government and the summit organisers.

"If the last two weeks are anything to be judged by then thousands more workers will have been made redundant and the unprecedented anger across a broad cross-section of progressive forces in Ireland would have seen people taking to the streets in their thousands. The last thing Mary Harney or Bertie Ahern need is for that anger to be directed or focused on one of their ego-driven international showcases.

"One of the most positive outcomes of this however has been the coming together of groups and activists around Ireland in the Irish Social Forum, initially set up to facilitate a counter-summit on the theme of co-operation, not competitiveness. The momentum generated by this development should not be allowed to dissipate." ENDS

by Laurence Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:53

One other thing we might allow ourselves is a wee bit of a party on (say) Monday the 20th. A hell of a lot of work was put in by all sorts of people from different groups leading up to this.

Laurence

by cleaver Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:56

Just because the WEF won't be here is no reason for the ISF not to continue and to hold the counter summit and carnival. In fact now the ISF doesn't have to be led by the agenda of the WEF there is a great chance for it to grow stonger as groups that would have pulled out if the ISF had backed the blockade can now stay on board.

by Laurence Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:01

It's probably true that Irish Govt. nerves (maybe over possible public reaction as much as over their technical capacity to hold the fort) played a big role in the decision to cancel.

But given that Peter Sutherland and Mary Harney were apparently instrumental in getting the WEF to Dublin in the first place, chances are they were in on the discussions too.

Either way, they don't cancel these high-profile things casually or because they've suddenly heard the weather in Dublin can be bad in October.

Lish is 100% right about going ahead and organising events in October anyway.

Laurence

by Terry Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:13

I was wondering is this a ploy for everyone to stop in their tracks all the organising for
October. How do we know that the government won't turn around on say Oct 15th and suddenly
announce the WEF is back on and the so called document that wasn't ready, is?

With such short notice of change a plan, it would catch everyone off the hop. The speed in which
groups such as the Irish Social Forum had got going in the preparation for the summit, has clearly
frightened the government. I therefore suggest that a skeleton plan by all the various groups is
kept in place so as to preempt any surprises by the government.

by Barry Finnegan - ISF Communications Working Group Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:18 john.finnegan3 at mail dot dcu dot ie

A statement released this evening by the Irish Social Forum (ISF) Communications Group said,

“Those involved in the Communications Group of the Irish Social Forum welcome the news that the World Economic Forum Competitiveness Summit planned for next October has been cancelled and hopes that this will see attention focussed on the ISF Co-operation Summit planned for the same time.

Not acting as a spokesperson for the ISF, rather speaking on behalf of its Communication Group, Barry Finnegan said,

“The Irish Social Forum is a process for the various sectors of civil society on the island - trade union, environment, development, community, social justice - to come together in a spirit of co-operation and mutual respect to share our concerns and analysis, and to build alliances in order to offer alternatives to the drastic implications of the big business agenda known as corporate-globalisation, or neoliberalism.”

Referring to the WEF, Finnegan stated,

“Their interpretation of competitiveness means more neoliberalism being inflicted on the people of the world in the form of health system cut backs, the privatisation of vital public services, further destruction of the environment, and the erosion of democracy.”

Media contact:
Barry Finnegan - on behalf of Irish Social Forum Communications Group:
PH: 01-8741223; MOB: 085-1423454; EMAIL: john.finnegan3@mail.dcu.ie

by Seán Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:21

Is there an Irish-Kurdish Solidarity website?
All I found on the net was the geocities one but its well out of date.
Is there another more up-to-date one?

by seedot Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:27

It's in the Teachers club from 12 - 3. Obviously this news will impact on the agenda - blockade group and march group may notice a drop in numbers ;-). But the carnival and summit are still to be planned for.

by Palmiro Togliatti Fri Jul 18, 2003 19:06

This is definitely their website (the URL is diverted to an eircom.net address all right).

by Palmiro Togliatti Fri Jul 18, 2003 19:08 http://www.kurdistansolidarityireland.com

Their address is www.kurdistansolidarityirelamd.com

by Petrichenko Fri Jul 18, 2003 19:42

......Fuck off!!!

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60458

You think I'm being sectarian. Well here goes. On the link above ye make a plea for a socialist bloc. Fine and well. But on this thread a leading member of the SWP says 'Globalise Resistance, an Irish anti-capitalist network is claiming victory over the World Economic Forum.'

And ye wonder why there are no takers on your proposal for a socialist bloc.
As I said elsewhere:
"If the SWP has comes to terms with its modus operandi and is prepared to change - well maybe there are possibilities, if not forget it."

Looks like nothing has been learnt hence the fuck off.

by John Meehan Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:05

Thanks to Justin for the quick posting of the WEF cancellation news.

No thanks to Joe Carolan for the ludicrous Globalise Resistance (GR in my view is a classic example of an SWP glove puppet) press release - I thought at first it was a wind-up - maybe it is.

Joe, if you did release this overblown prose, you should take on board the valid criticisms people have made of your hasty text, and your failure to even mention the ISF. This type of thing calls into question the motives behind SWP's call for a socialist bloc, and the party's real intentions.

The cancellation of the WEF event gives us more time, and we should go ahead with Sunday's meeting - and consider holding a scaled down but significant event on the weekend of October 19 and 20 anyway - perhaps our combined efforts had more effect than we supsected!

by redjade Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:17

[sarcasm]
It wasn't GR, SF, SWP, SP nor even the various (A) groupings that scared ther WEF away...

it was The Irish Herald!

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60421

Now we know what the Power-Elite read :-)

now, that's a scary thought!

Question is, how do we infiltrate the Herald?
{ don't hate the media - BECOME the media! }
[/sarcasm]

by Cork anti-war activist Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:25

GR/SWP have had their plans a big anti-globalisation demo scuppered, so now they're switching back to focusing on the anti-war movement - let's have a huge demo in September blah, blah, blah. God save us from such activists! No consistency. No sense of shame.

by Chekov Fri Jul 18, 2003 21:01

joe wrote:

"Anti-capitalists in Ireland will now be shifting their focus to a massive anti-war demonstraytion on September 27th and the Irish Presidency of the EU next year."

Jesus, his powers of mind reading are really impressive. In the 10 minutes between the news of the cancellation and the press release, he managed to read the minds of all the anti-capitalists in Ireland and come up with a consensus. It's funny that we came to this conclusion at a time when few anti-capitalists have probably even heard of this demo. Anyway, at least we don't have to do our thinking for ourselves, joe just knows what we are going to focus on.

The prevoyance is pretty smart to. I mean most people don't know if a demonstration is going to be massive until it happens. Apparently Joe can tell with absolute certainty more than two months in advance.

This type of thing, racing to get the press release out first and claim victory, may succeed occasionaly in getting GR in the paper, but what's the point when it pisses off the literally hundreds of non-GR/SWP activists who have been helping to organise against the WEF?

by hb Fri Jul 18, 2003 21:01

Do a protest anyway!! Thats what people in barcelona did when the summit there was cancelled the other year - it was amazing.

The ISF will continue right?

The issues are still there right?

Ireland needs to practise mobilisations ahead of EU presidency next year 2004, and hey G8 will be somewhere in uk in 2005...

plus don't forget.....

Europe's largest arms fair is on in london in september (inc over september 11th - pretty sick huh).

A week of events 6th-12th september including 2 day conference and two days of direct action + blockades

see http://www.dsei.org

by ditto Fri Jul 18, 2003 21:08

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60473

by hb Fri Jul 18, 2003 21:10

Carry on Regardless!! Thats what people in barcelona, spain, in June 2001 when the World Bank Meeting there was cancelled the other year - it was amazing - in the run up it reduced the tension with the cops having no international summit to protect, and allowed people to focus on developing links and working together.

The ISF conference will still continue right?

The issues are still there right?

Plus

Ireland needs to practise mobilisations ahead of EU presidency next year 2004, and hey G8 will be somewhere in uk in 2005...

plus don't forget.....

Europe's largest arms fair is on in london in september (inc over september 11th - pretty sick huh).

A week of events 6th-12th september including 2 day conference and two days of direct action + blockades

for info see http://www.dsei.org

by paul Fri Jul 18, 2003 21:51

free accomodation... direct action.... european focus for WTO actions...
INTERNATIONAL CALL TO ACTION

STOP EUROPE’S BIGGEST EVER WEAPONS FAIR!


SHUT DOWN DSEi!
LONDON, UK – 6TH – 12TH SEPTEMBER 2003
INTERNATIONAL CALL TO ACTION

STOP EUROPE’S BIGGEST EVER WEAPONS FAIR!


SHUT DOWN DSEi!
LONDON, UK – 6TH – 12TH SEPTEMBER 2003


One of the world’s biggest ever trade fairs for guns, bombs, military planes, small arms, mines and tanks is taking place in London from 9th – 12th September 2003.


An international protest. Thousands of protesters, from all over the world, are invited to travel to the UK to help stop this market of death, and to work towards shutting down the whole murderous industry. This is a chance to target not just the fair itself, but the businesses behind it.

What is DSEi?

Defence Systems Equipment International (DSEi 2003) is an arms fair, sponsored by the British government. It will host arms buyers from all over the world – including countries on Amnesty International’s list of human rights abusers, and others who should be!

Also shopping at this huge arms fair will be delegates representing some of the poorest countries in Africa and Asia. Rich Western governments, including America, Britain, France and Italy, and their weapons companies, will try to get them to buy expensive weapons instead of spending money on education, development and medicine.

The last DSEi exhibition took place over 11th September 2001, the day of the attacks on New York and Washington in America. While many businesses around the world closed, the arms fair stayed open. For three more days, countries including America, Israel and 14 different Arab nations continued to shop, side-by-side, for weapons to attack each other with!
The arms trade, of which DSEi 2003 is an important part, is an international political business made up of multinational companies which make products that kill and maim for profit. These companies play a leading role in the unjust global economic system which causes poverty and abuse of human rights around the world.

Civilians made up 90 percent of all war casualties during the 1990s. Wars continue today only thanks to the arms trade. Due to globalisation, the arms companies operate above the law, outside of trade agreements, and firmly in favour only of the rich and powerful.

The arms business in the UK harms local communities. The London borough of Newham, where DSEi is taking place, is one of the poorest in the country. The people of Newham do not want this fair for weapons of death to come into their community. They want better education, housing, health, job creation and living wages as a minimal starting point.

The British government spends millions subsidising the arms trade, while people are too poor to eat healthily, their schools are bursting, their hospitals are run down.

What is being planned?

London, 6th – 12th September 2003.

Most international protest has centred around government institutions. DSEi 2003 is a chance to directly tackle companies and government ministers while they are actually trading in arms.

‘Disarm DSEi’ is co-ordinating a week long festival of action, protest and resistance against the arms fair and the unjust global system which supports it. We are planning a full year ahead, to make it the biggest ever festival against the arms trade.

A number of vigils, demonstrations and actions will be arranged against the arms fair, the companies that exhibit there, the buyers and the governments that pay for the whole show. Participants are also encouraged to plan their own actions and demonstrations. Information on the arms fair, arms companies in London, and other players in the trade will be available.

The Disarm DSEi co-ordinating group is attempting to create a space where various groups can use the methods of protest and tactics of action they believe are most effective. We are working to create an event where diverse groups respect each other’s space, methods of protest and tactics of action.
We will be organising workshops, teach-ins and other gatherings, as well as (very) basic accommodation and a Convergence Centre. Please let us know you are coming. Please translate, copy and distribute this call to action. Please get involved in the organising group. Please mobilise support in your country.

Email: disarm@dsei.org, Website: www.dsei.org.
Tel: (+44) (0)781 7652 029

by paul Fri Jul 18, 2003 22:15

-free accomodation in london for dsei,

-cheap flights at ryanair [6euros(not including tax) dublin to london stansted on the 8th for example...]

-blockades/ direct action/

-international protest!

see you there,

random paul

by airport worker Fri Jul 18, 2003 22:29

please dont use Ryanair, they are a non union company and they are trying to destroy the unions, look at their ads in the papers today.

by Pat H Fri Jul 18, 2003 23:04

I think the idea of having an ISF/No Borders demo on Sunday October 19th is a great idea. We could bring it up to the residents of Dominick Street and Parnell Street, and link in global and local struggles. That could be the launching pad for the ISF that weekend.

Globalise Resistance, and in particular Joe Carolan, are really a disgrace. Its the same stunt they pulled after the RTS demo in May 2002. Jump straight out of the starting blocks and try to get as much media space as they can for their own organisation - while neglecting to acknowledge that there are other groups out there who have put in much more work and effort than they ever did or would.

GR only resurfaced this year when Evian G8 rolled around, after a year of non existence. The SWP were too busy putting their eggs into the IAWM basket (which as far as I can see, has also evaporated into almost nothing...)

I think we can safely expect GR to disappear for a while now (fingers crossed), depending on what happens around the world.

Meanwhile, autonomous actions and grassroots organinsing will continue - stuff like the ISF, the Good Bus, the Grassroots Gathering, RTS/FNB's picnic in Bray, Disco Disco, and tomorrows Carlo Giuliani commeroration; all these will build a real alternative movement to the top-down, hierarchical bullshit that the SWP want us to toe the line to.

Its shit that the WEF was cancelled. It would have been great to have a summit like this on our own turf, to raise the level and profile of libertarian/autonomous/horizontal organising.

Whatever happened in October, the ISF/GG would probably have been stabbed in the back by the SWP (a la Shannon) anyway.

Lets keep organising... we are winning.

by Cork anti-war Fri Jul 18, 2003 23:29

Or is that too far out of the way?

by Palmiro Togliatti Sat Jul 19, 2003 00:56

Of course the Irish Social Forum summit should go ahead. The No Borders idea is a good one, but, to be honest, but a lot of thought and preparatory work would have to be put into it before you could expect a reasonable proportion of residents of areas with relatively large immigrant populations to welcome it. Not trying to be cynical, that's just how it is, and doesn't mean that the idea isn't wworth pursuing.

by Intransigent Sat Jul 19, 2003 00:58

You are going on this crazy rant about a GR press release. If you all believe them to be so insignificant then why bother your time? There was pressure from all sides on the WEF, including the herald, ISF, GR, Grassroots and all anti capitalists. No one person can claim victory. It was a team effort if you like? But why do you all bitch so much?

by sean o c Sat Jul 19, 2003 01:02

is because they are sad arseholes who only want to stir up shit,why cant they fuck off and form their own group/party instead of spending all day on imc whining about the swp/sp etc.?

by relieved Sat Jul 19, 2003 05:30

Phew,for a few moments i thought there wasnt going to be a chance to vilify our gombeens in government, then i remembered that they are going to be at the next G8 summit when we hold the EU presidency. That aside having it going to switzerland means that it will pass without our protests or media presence, become the media, eh (unsarcastically)it's still going ahead in a manner but we have lost our voice and ability to comment publically on the issue. a victory for excluding ourselves from the wider agenda, ooooh, yay.

by mr O 'as if iosaf the ipsiphi - J18. Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:17

I have been the only consistent voice on the W€F.
at the begining I expressed doubts that the project was anything more than Harney's ambition to put Dublin on the map.
I pointed out 22nd Jan. that there were several reasons why the summit would not happen.

Then I was the _first_ to suggest that it wouldn't after all happen.

I started leaving comments as "J18" on July 16th.

Now for anyone in Ireland to claim this as a victory is the equivalent of protesting NIMBYism.
Just as BCN 2001, the machinery of hyper-capitalism continues to work, the unfairness of trade continues to exploit the weakest of our planet and the people and activists of Ireland have been denied an opportunity to bring scrutiny to a global institution.

I see therefore no reason for the delirium above.

We may look for reasons why, thinking naturally that our particular strategy has won, or been more effective than others, but that doesn't change the level of support given to hyper-capitalism by the cabal of interests presently entrenched in Irish business and technological development.

So in some senses we have now _more_ work to do, work which is more difficult. To inform the Irish people how there "security" is based on the intelligence of their recent graduates in BioTech being perverted by a marriage between ambition and corporative speculation.

& that as they say is that.

by iosaf Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:31

this is exactly right HB!
In Barcelona the news that World Bank had cancelled caused near panic.
The immediate reaction was "Victory!!!!"
followed by "our anarcho-victory will finally put an end to marxist newspaper sellers for ever, vive zapatistas Dinero GRATIS pasta BASTA!

then we thought.

¿did World Bank intend to use the certain opposition in one of the world's most definitely anti-capitalist city's to move it's meetings even further into the shade, away from accountability and scrutiny?

then we acted.

We did hold several days of discussion, forum, action, etc., after all the flights and buses were not to be cancelled, and we afterwards felt lucky that we were spared the riots which followed that year in Gothenburg and Genoa. Riots which led to the death of Carlo Guilliani.

I suggest Dublin acts as well. The W€F has not died, just because it is not meeting in Dublin, all that is different is Harney's immediate future and some small influence of Irish based BioTech corporations on intellectual patent issues.

I suggest "chase the MAmmy Harney", and I suggested same to one of her constituients three months ago.

I also suggest continued pressure is put at the same time on the SWP. Would I be disingenious to prefer for the moment based on performance in the Daíl, Joe Higgins and the SP. If people must be socialists in Ireland, then be a SP.

That two pronged attack on the most ridiculous of our left wing elements and right wing elements will "galvanise" the left to the benefit of all and decreased marginalisation of anarchists and anarchism.

The truth is, that this W€F if it had occured would have served anarchism well, all the issues are property related and thus in our common remit with ecologists and moralists.

Thus I would suggest enjoying "Capitalism and it's Competition" a Forum in Dublin 2003.
Knowing that confrontation with authorities is like likely to occur.

But being delighted becuase a world capitalist institution is _not_ coming to town is rather like anti-globalist NIMBYism.
not good.

We in our movements have solutions to the problems that beset our communities both local and global. October now presents a good opportunity to share these solutions and hopes for the future. We must also deal with the continued presence of marxist newspaper sellers who are very good at identifying problems three weeks after everyone else, but whose solutions have failed time and time again.
I look forward to hearing serious discussion on patent, on intellectual copyright, on freedom of the internet, on the expected development of the justice orientated fair trade agenda. I am prepared to allow that agenda space for the moment, it is the agenda of the "centre alternatives" the "movement of Monibiot" and so the sustained attack I suggest on the PDs.
As I said on July 16th as writer character "J18" you must be very careful before you ever believe a PD.

I look forward to hearing and seeing how it goes.
and of course visiting our Autonomous Centre.

BASTA!

by meejatart Sat Jul 19, 2003 13:19

Summit in Ireland postponed, activists claim link

DUBLIN, July 18 — A European competitiveness summit due to be held in Ireland in October was postponed on Friday and anti-globalisation activists said growing Irish labour unrest was a factor....

#snip#

Anti-globalisation activists planning a counter summit said there were growing tensions between Ireland's centre-right government and workers facing mounting job losses and the missing report was probably just an excuse for the delay.

The summit postponement was announced the same day Irish bus and train workers let people ride free, to protest against plans to break up the semi-state transport company.

''It's building up to be a showdown between civil society and the government over the domestic political situation,'' said Barry Finnegan, a spokesman for the Irish Social Forum.

He said the Irish Social Forum would go ahead with a counter-summit, but he added that he did not think any protests in Ireland would have been as violent as anti-globalisation demonstrations have been elsewhere in Europe or the U.S.

A spokesman for the Department of Enterprise, Trade & Employment, the Irish sponsor of the summit, said the decision to postpone it was not made by the Irish government and the transport action ''had nothing at all to do with it.''

#snip#

Reuters via:

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters07-18-110743.asp?reg=EUROPE

by rory hearne Sat Jul 19, 2003 21:34 hearner at yahoo dot co dot uk

does this mean the wef is definetly cancelled????
does this mean the wef is definetly cancelled????
I think that we should now go ont he offensive The ISF should organise a big public success meeting organised by the ISF and talk about the WEF and reasons why the government pulled out and that we are going ahead with the plans for alt summit and demo ..it would pull in hundreds of new people and they could talk about the ISF, 020 and maybe begin mentioning the possibility of the ISF doing things for the next European Social Forum in PAris in november
rory

by christian Sat Jul 19, 2003 22:01

Well, I think The ISF should have an ISF and get things going for next year and have a nice and relaxed ISF in October in the knowledge that if the media wants to write anything it won't be some bull about violent protests.
Y'know what I mean?
Relax...

by Johnny Boyle Sat Jul 19, 2003 22:30

It was Harney's jewel piece. The WEF decided themselves to cancel it. To think that they cancelled it because a group of Irish anti capitalists were going to protest is insane. This country has a tiny movement in comparison to other countries, and no history of alternative activity really.

And if it was a GR protest - they DEFINITELY didnt have anything to worry about. "Just go into your pre-determined pen there lads, thanks."

by christian Sat Jul 19, 2003 23:15

thank you.
Appart from a reply from GR and SWP to all this nothing is going to surprise me.
Can we just get on with the revolution, please?
I can't wait to see how it's going to turn out.
Love,
Christian

by Grassroots Gathering Sun Jul 20, 2003 22:55

IMHO I still that that we should still go ahead with the demo as planned assemblying at the GPO at 5PM on the Monday the 20TH - The only change would be the final destination - Instead of marching to Dublin Castle as planned we should instead march to the Dail on Kildare Street to show the opposition of many Irish people to the
neo-liberal agenda being pushed by the likes of the WEF both here in Ireland and internationally. The only thing thats off the agenda is the blockade - I think we should still go all out and mobilise for the demo on the evening of October 20TH as planned - What do others think?

by Anti corporate Sun Jul 20, 2003 22:57

IMHO I still that that we should still go ahead with the demo as planned assemblying at the GPO at 5PM on the Monday the 20TH - The only change would be the final destination - Instead of marching to Dublin Castle as planned we should instead march to the Dail on Kildare Street to show the opposition of many Irish people to the
neo-liberal agenda being pushed by the likes of the WEF both here in Ireland and internationally. The only thing thats off the agenda is the blockade - I think we should still go all out and mobilise for the demo on the evening of October 20TH as planned - What do others think?

by One of one Sun Jul 20, 2003 23:17

I think you're talking about going ahead with a demo simply because you've called one. Realistically, who is going to turn up for a demo under these circumstances. Better to spend the time dialoguing about how to move things forward. We don't have to demonstrate, demonstrate, demonstrate! Fucks sake, there's more to this than roaring and shouting. Calm down a bit.

by Seáinín Mon Jul 21, 2003 03:21

Does every international meeting attract a socialist rabble? You people are short on ideas and long on 'mouth'.

by conor - wsm personal capacity Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:58

Well gob shite-inín SEE BELOW for starters (taken from a talk I did for the Grass roots blockade outreach group)

mean time if joe and Rory want to say they shut down the WEF let em have their fun!
Obviously its nonsense BUT...
- all the better if it annoys the powers that be and better again if they have to issue some sort of denial !!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The World Economic forum is an exclusive club of between 1000 and 2000 business
leaders and invited guests, which meets every year at Davos in Switzerland. The
WEF is not a lobbying body as such. Neither is it like the World Trade
Organisation (a group it helped to set up) or the International Monetary Fund.
It is not a body which of it self sets policy or implements decisions. What
exactly it does do can be quite hard to get a handle on. It operates secretly
and deliberately promotes vagueness as to its functions. Its PR wizards are
Olympic gymnastists in the spin game. This has become even more true since
massive protests have successfully drawn attention to this self appointed
bosses club,



However one of the best hints as to how it works comes in the description of
one of it's publicity officers as "a giant dating agency" The lonely hearts it
wishes to bring together in fruitful marriage is the collective capital of the
worlds biggest corporations and publicly managed services like water,
sanitation and health. The approach used is often quite subtle and clever.
Private industry is held out like a helping hand to make things better. Here's
just one small example off their web page from last June.



The press release is entitled Private Sector takes Action to Improve Watershed
Management. The first two pages contain much hand wringing about the awful
state of water resources world wide - what a precious commodity it is and so
on. All quite true! At this stage one would almost expect to see them picketing
their own offices. The CEO of Alcan Limited - one of the worlds biggest water
companies is quoted and one can almost see the glint of a tear in his eye as he
promises that companies like his are ready "to enhance the availability of this
precious resource"



How this help is to offered is an old WEF favourite "public private
partnership" They go on to tell us "The World Economic Forum Water Initiative
is intended to facilitate private sector participation in the maintenance of
watersheds" We'll return to PPPs in a second - the real gem of the press
release is kept for the end in a section ironically entitled solidarity telling
us "innovative approaches such as payments for environmental services need to
be adopted" Of course there's nothing innovative about this its as old as the
hills. The government implements the charges and when the charge is high enough
they sell the resource. So this is how are water resources are to be protected
by private industry, and this is who gets to pay - us! Anyone who has seen how
the bin charges work and lead, as in Bray, to privatisation will be familiar
with this particular innovation.



As for public private partnership experience in England reveals that it has
been very costly for the tax payer. Private enterprise steps in to help with
that new school or hospital but the repayments over the next decade or more are
way over that investment. Secondly there is the more general lesson of
privatisation. Anyone who has studied the English experience will have learned
this. The rail and water privatisations made a quick killing for a lucky few -
but its the public who have done most of the dying through rail accidents and
undrinkable water. Now the state is stepping in and attempting to re
nationalise. Again the ordinary tax payer foots the bill. And then again why
look at England when we have eircom....?



In some respects the WEF is an event management agency or, like I said, a
dating agency. But it can also never be forgotten that basically it represents
a collection of the most powerful people on the surface of the earth. As one
of it's own members ( Sammuel P Huntington) puts it "Davos people control all
international institutions, many of the world's governments and the bulk of the
world's economic and military capabilities" Through their control of the World
Trade Organisation, World Bank and International Monetary Fund - they are not
just a forum but a group which can enforce an agenda. As well as carrots like
the PPPs they have big sticks. The most important of these are legally binding
trade agreements like the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATs) and
the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)



The aims of such agreements are many - sometimes summarised under the general
headings of deregulation, liberalisation or neo-liberalism. They include



Minimal controls on big business

Unrestricted foreign investment

Unlimited exports of profits

Privatisation of State assets, utilities and services

Exposure of domestic markets to cheap exports (though NOT if they are European
or American markets!)

Market driven, privatised service sectors

Competitive and flexible labour practises (e.g. temporary, part time, contract
based and non union work)

Full free movement for business migrants - but strict border controls for
ordinary people



One small example of how these agreements work in practise can be seen in a
case taken under NAFTA's investment chapter. The Canadian government had
banned a fuel additive on the basis that it was a neurotoxin and environmental
hazard. Under the investment chapter the US based Ethyl corporation was able to
force the Canadian government to with draw this ban. They also had to apologise
and pay 13 million dollars to Eythl to avoid a 250 million dollar penalty. This
is only the tip of the ice berg. NAFTA is relatively weak compared to GATs
which were described by Greg Palast in the Observer as "NAFTA on steroids"



The meeting which is coming up in Dublin from October 30th is that of the
European region of the WEF. The WEF have been clever over the past few years
and a token number of NGOs are usually invited - they also talk about helping
with AIDs - cooperating with UN development agencies, solving world hunger and
so forth. The fact remains that it is a completely unelected self appointed
club which does the deals that control the destiny of millions of people. WEF
likes to boast about its exclusive nature. One puff peace described it as
having "a unique club atmosphere which is very conducive to a forward looking
approach in addressing key issues of global relevance"



Clearly this sort of operation is totally at variance with the notion that
people have an input into controlling their own futures. But as the tribunals
have revealed this is how democracy works in Ireland. The deals are done in
smoky back rooms and the job of the politicians is to sell these foregone
conclusions to a weary and cynical electorate. In Dublin castle in October.
The business leaders of WEF will have an unprecedented level of access to Irish
decision makers - the sort the ordinary citizen can only dream off.



We are calling for this summit to be closed down by a mass, peaceful blockade.
The summit will be portrayed as a furthering of democracy, a noble effort to
solve world hunger, an equitable partnership to sort out all our problems. It
is any thing but. What is happening is a systematic disenfranchisement of
masses of people world wide. The WEF is an organisation committed to the
erosion and by pass of democracy not its creation. For this reason we think
people should get up and do something about it. If we want a world were our
voice counts we have to start to make it count.



In September 2001 founder and President of WEF Professor Klaus Schwab said
"Globalisation may be accelerating in our lifetime but it has been around since
Marco Polo and it will not end because anti globalisation protestors find it
objectionable"

In one sense he is completely right. Hundreds of years of terror and genocide
have been endured by millions of people in waves of colonisation the first type
of globalisation. Globalisation is not new but neither is resistance to it.
This did not begin at Seattle, it did not begin with the internet and it will
not end next October. Another world is possible a world without the WEF.


(The ra ra bit at the end is robbed from an excellent speech by Aziz Choudry

www.arena.org.nz /azhoto.htm other sources www.wef.org /
www.thirdworldtraveler.com/corporations/Naked_Lobbyist.html and the Fighting
Capitalist Globalisation pdf on the WSM site www.struggle.ws/wsm.html )

by Socialist Workers Party Mon Jul 21, 2003 13:09

You see, anybody can post under any name. The person posting as 'grassroots gathering' is saying things that are curiously identical to what the SWP are saying. It is also interesting to note that there has never been anybody who has the mandate to represent the gathering like that.

by iosaf - nomadologist Mon Jul 21, 2003 17:04

penultimate comment from Conor and the WSM.
interests me.
{{{{In September 2001 founder and President of WEF Professor Klaus Schwab said
"Globalisation may be accelerating in our lifetime but it has been around since
Marco Polo and it will not end because anti globalisation protestors find it
objectionable"}}}}
Of all precedents for globalised trade Marco Polo is the most unlikely for globalist supporters to invoke. Why? Because the nature of the nomadic domain through which he travelled safely dispell the increased security myth of centralised postmodern states.
The little monk got himself and his twenty donkeys to China and back. No border checks, no passports, no centralised Mongolian Empire, no fiscal structure, no _·state·_

The little monk Marco Polo showed us all how "terribly" succesful the Khan's domain could be. I wrote a pamhplet about it. Deluezze and Guatari a joint thesis.

other than that
all with Conor.

by pc Mon Jul 21, 2003 18:32

the isf have had a meeting on sunday and it was decided to go ahead with the alternative summit on the 17/18/19 of october and a carnival/protest on the sunday ....


so come to isf meetings to find out more ...

by citizen Tue Jul 22, 2003 16:53

The cancellation of the Competitiveness Summit is excellent news. :)))) The neoliberalim regime is losing legitimacy the way the Soviet regime lost legitimacy.

But the problem in the USSR is that what was forced on them as a replacement was another fucked-up system.

Short-term gains - like non-privatisation - are certainly worthwhile battles. But it's time for Social Fora to work on theory and experiment in building participatory structures (economics, politics, immigration, work, the city, education, gender/sexuality, family life).

Lots of great reports at the Life After Capitalism website:

http://www.zmag.org/lacsite.htm

by Phen O'Mannon Sat Jul 26, 2003 17:06

When I read the article about the cancellation of the WEF's blah blah....I was more moved about the attempts of the ISF to combat its precesnce in Dublin with a competitive alternative than the actual fact it was cancelled. Heartfelt attempts like this must continue for it is undeniably at least partly responsible for the cancellation of the WEF. When I read the comments afterwards by Global Resistance and others I was a bit annoyed- nay, frustrated - nay, pissed off. Why were these people arguing about one movements claims? Why did Global Resistance neglect to mention the ISF? I answer myself thus. Who cares?
Global Resistance are an independant movement consisting of individual movements, just like the ISF is an independant movement made up of individual movements. They have their opinion, others have different ones, isnt that what the Social Forum's are all about? Isnt it about listening to all opinions and respecting the opinions of all others even if they, at some level, are in complete contradiction to our own. I feel some people should remind themselves that we are aiming at a greater ultimate prize and all of us have that same prize in mind - The De-centralization of Power from Air-Force One level to ground level... ie. the communities.

by anarkid - kiss my ass Sat Jul 26, 2003 17:52

isn't it obvious if joe had mentioned the isf
the anarkids would have been screeching and whining that he was claiming to be its leaders.
anyway everyone here seems to be boasting about all the work they did to stop the esf
what exactly was it that you did?
losers.

by The Big Man - Alternative Revolutionary Movement. Sun Jul 27, 2003 15:26

It seems to me that alot of people are wasting alot of time giving off about Swp/ GR/ Joe, i`ll save the world Carolan. Alot of stuff is said about the need for a governmental summit in order to have a counter summit.What a load of shite !!! We all know that GR is a joke, ( glove puppet of SWP ) The SWP scare off more people than they attract. Joe, I`ll save the world, well I was going to give my own opinion on this guy but here, what`s the point, he is not so important nor is he worth my time.

The ISF needs to push on and build a project which will compliment similar projects all over the world. The ISF would be much more productive if it were to dump these political groupings and try to include all those people who are sick to death with the likes of GR/SWP/Joe, I`ll save the world. The Principles of the World Social Forum state that the social forum is a non- party political process. This needs to be considered. If a Social Forum is to work by the principles of the World Social Forum then it needs to either accept the principles or rewrite it`s own set of principles. It is not much use to state that there will be no discrimination against members of political groupings. This is too vague. What needs to be stated is that everyone is welcome , Individuals, concern groups, poverty groups etc. but that members of political groupings participate in an individual capacity.This is not the case in the ISF. There are political groupings involved in the ISF.
If the SWP/GR/ Joe I`ll save the world, were to call on people to mobilise in large numbers for one cause or another they would have thirty people over and above the membership of SWP/GR. This is the main reason that they wanted the ISF to call demonstrations against the WEF. It would have gone something like this : The ISF calls for demonstration against WEF, large numbers turn out, all of a sudden everyone is marching under an SWP flag/ GR banner, giving the impression that these people are all members and supporters,the demonstrations turn out to be greast success, SWP/GR take full credit for mobilising these numbers. What a load of shite. The SWP / GR could not organise a pissup in a brewery under their own flag/banner so they need to hide for some time behind some other banner.

It is time to give ordinary people a space in which they can operate without interference from these parisitical political groupings, who march the masses up the hill and straight back down, again following some fine revolutionary rhetoric.

It would be very interesting to know exactly how many regional social forums are happening right now around the world. If two people from each delegation which have been to Florence come home to where-ever, and put together the beginnings of a social forum, then from 60,000 / one million participants from the experience of Florence, we have a large number of mini-revolutions, connect all these up and there you have it . An opportunity for global revolution without the revolutionary bullshit of SWP/GR/ Joe I`ll save the world.

The ISF needs to be extremely careful that it does not become a glove puppet of the SWP/ GR. If the ISF continues to welcome political party involvement from these and other groupings then this will be the outcome.BEWARE.

by phelim Tue Aug 05, 2003 23:55 phelimm at eircom dot net

It's true after all: life does imitate art. There's a sketch in "The Life of Brian" where a member of an anti-Roman revolutionary group is asked who he hates most and he blurts out the name of another anti-Roman group and then apologises and says "the Romans of course". It's funny in the movie; it's not funny on this forum. Most of the contributors to this forum are more angry at GR/SWP than they are at Harney and the other corporate lackeys. Maybe GR is a front, maybe they are glory mongers. Who gives a shit. Harney and the other members of the elite must be reading this website and weeping with laughter at the "Life of Brian" back-stabbing going on.
I'm an activist; I'm in no party and I have no swp association but my guess is that we're not going to take down the fat cat system by stabbing each other in the back.
There are a few people who frequent this website and they should fuck off and join the Dublin 4 Labour party or better still form the the Irish anti-SWP party (which Ms. Harney would be glad to join). Otherwise I suggest that they confine their contributions to atacking the real powers that be.

by Seáinín Wed Aug 13, 2003 03:24

If it's such an awful thing that it requires street protests, surely it can be explained in a FOUR or less sentences, not in hundreds of sentences of breathless off-the-point whinging which gave no information = like I was presented with earlier in this thread.

Tell me what their crime is?