Sutherland confronted by West Papua activists in Dublin

by WP Sat Sep 13, 2003 21:12

More pics at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61052

by WP Sat Sep 13, 2003 21:17

1

by Caspian Sun Sep 14, 2003 00:01

To the author of this report.... I love you!
I wish I had known about this conference that was taking place in Dublin. I would have been right behind you. Well done, mate.
As anyone who has ever worked on a building site knows, the Irish subbie is the subbie to avoid. They are greedy, violent and abusive.
On a grander scale, the likes of Sutherland are even more evil. Scumbags like this know nothing of the suffering of local people who watch their land being destroyed and their relatives murdered by Sutherland employed death squads. So little old Ireland now wants to play with the big fellas on the global scene does it? We have the second highest unemployment in Europe, the worst schooling, the worst health care, the worst environmental record in Europe and dickheads like Sutherland think we have something to show the rest of the world. Bollocks!
Oh enough. I really must go down to the pub before closing time. Midnight on a Saturday night. Pathetic!

by Anthony Sun Sep 14, 2003 00:13

Well done to PapuaHead for such an excellent action and for writing such a good account of it. The West Papua group seem to be consistently keeping up the pressure. On a related but more general issue, Mr Sutherland is also quite keen on implementing the General Agreement on Trade and Services. He spoke about how GATS can be ratified post-Nice Treaty without being debated in parliament at a Fine Gael open meeting on the Nice Treaty this time last year. Something worth bearing in mind for both council workers and those campaigning against the bin tax.

by mack the knife Sun Sep 14, 2003 02:00

Jolly decent of ye not to give him a cream pie in the mush ... or the Swedish treatment ....

On the sidewalk, Sunday morning,
Don't you know
Lies a body oozing life
Someone's sneaking round the corner
Could that be our boy, Mack the knife?

by David Sun Sep 14, 2003 13:20

It was undemocratic, carried out by individuals with their own agenda who were not elected by anybody...
I'm waiting for some right winger to lob that arguement at your action.

I wish to extend my deepest congratulations for this very impressive and brave act. If only i posessed sopme of your foresight, restraint, courage and integrity.

by BlackPope Sun Sep 14, 2003 13:42 BlackPope at operamail dot com

Here comes de 'Branch'!
Branch of What?
Branch of SHAAMME!
Branch of REEPRESSSSION!
Nothing 'Special' about that 'Branch'!!
It's not even a 'Branch', just a Fig-Leaf behind which murderers in suits take shelter.

"A shaken member of Garda special branch from Pearse St. station came outside to 'congratulate' me on the action and to inquire into the 'particulars'."

It is at this precise point that you firmly tell these prying fuckers to take a hike. What business is it of theirs who you shake hands with?

A good precaution for such situations is to remain mute, take out your lawyer's card and point to the instructions on the reverse -

"If you are a US/Brit spy or represent their 'Irish' proxy fig-leaf services, do not ask for my name as being told to 'Fuck-Off' will cause offence. Otherwise, the contact overleaf will give you all the info you NEED TO KNOW (zero=0). Goodbye!!"

There is no obligation to actively assist Gestapo members whose sole purpose is plainly to tag and target you for future criminalisation.


Schalom, BP


PS: Excellent job with the action. I'll bet you a pound that Suckerland crapped his tent-like bags - hahahahaha!!

by Drbinoche Sun Sep 14, 2003 17:20

I gotta ask, is everything a conspiracy to you guys. I mean I know next to nothing about West Papua or whats going on there, but everytime I log onto this site, all I see is bloody conspiracy after another. The garda are against you and are unmerciful pricks, yet whenever you mention meeting em, you always state that they seem to be shaking in their boots.

Sutherland probably is a very big wanker, but in all honesty hes just as big a prick as most of you guys.

by WPhead Sun Sep 14, 2003 18:01

Do your own research on Sutherland. He is way bigger than your average 'prick'. This guy is a prick leader. Time for more strategic thought, protest, action. A conspiracy is nothing other than a plan to do something. It is a fact that there is a plan (and there has been for a long long time) for a small amount of individuals to achieve vast amounts of power. It's been tried in different ways - a la Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, but now they've gotten smarter and more devious. Same agenda, different cloaks.
--THEY HAVEN'T GONE AWAY YOU KNOW!

by David Sun Sep 14, 2003 18:20

Individually, they can be very nice people, but when they put on that uniform to protect the taoiseach from being legitimately served a legal document, or when they harrass and stalk people, genuine heroes like Tim Hourigan (sorry about the spelling) when he is trying to assess the military activity in Shannon. Doing a public genuine public service for which he is not being paid in any way. When they are acting under their badges to break the law they swore to protect, to follow illegal orders from negligent superiors then they do NOT deserve our support.

by WPhead Sun Sep 14, 2003 18:46

I had a few discussions with the Gardai and 'the branch' following the WP action on Tuesday. Most agreed on the issues involved and that action was necessary. They see themselves as there to 'keep order' and simply that. When posed with the question 'well, who's gonna 'keep order' and halt the destruction caused by the likes of Sutherland?' one replied 'yes we do need to start highlighting and fighting higher crimes and corporate crimes'.

As one of the Catholic Worker people said 'there is wholesale crime and there is retail crime'. - Time for the ordinary citizens to home in on the wholesalers.

As for the cops - well it's a big and long debate. However, I find that treating everyone as an individual and giving them human respect (activism in itself) works wonders sometimes. On Wednesday in Sligo, protesters were supplied with verbal, text and phone tip offs on the Taoiseach's comings and goings. Information and invaluable help that would never have been received if we held the 'all pigs are evil' attitude.

by NetGardai Sun Sep 14, 2003 18:47

We'll have to have a special investigation and a consultation process to figure out who these bent coppers in Sligo are. Terrible behaviour.

by paul Sun Sep 14, 2003 20:06

"I mean I know next to nothing about West Papua or whats going on there....Sutherland probably is a very big wanker, but in all honesty hes just as big a prick as most of you guys".

just two main points from your comment that i find really really irritating. can you see any contradiction??? why don't you find out where west papua is and what's actually happening there??? then decide on the who's a bigger prick, us, sutherland or maybe even you??

by mick mc dowell Sun Sep 14, 2003 22:35

I will not TOLERATE members of my police force liasing with members of the great unwashed public without proper authorisation from me ....
It is your civic duty to denounce these delinquents immediately at the nearest PD branch office ......
My police force will have to be purged of such subversive elements ... where do you people think we live .... in a Free State ?

I'm the Minister for Justice
Mark well my station
My face to the Castle
My ARSE to the Nation .....

by to whom it may concern Sun Sep 14, 2003 22:54

The address for BP Corporate headquarters is
BP, Britannic House,
1 Finsbury Circus,
London EC2M 7BA,
United Kingdom.

Just in case anyone would like to drop Porky a line to commiserate with the poor chap for being confronted in such a manner by these beastly activists ...

But do be aware that poor wee Porky can get very ratty if you inquire about BPs activities in far foreign fields .....

http://lark.phoblacht.net/elections.html


So don't drop a clanger by asking him if they're in on the Iraq scam as well ......

by Itchie Feet Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:28

I decided I needed to post on this comment for 2 reasons.

1) I want to say fair play to the person who wrote the article and indeed all who showed up to commit their interest to this endevour.

but

2) Give it a rest on the gardai-bashing. What a load of cock and bull. Gestapo, US/Brit spy or represent their 'Irish' proxy fig-leaf services, what a load of over-educated clap-trap. These man take criminals off the street. The special branches have saved many lives in this country and all you wanna do is bring them down. Just because their job sometimes conflicts with your ideals. Such a tolerent group you are!

That's all I gotta say,
Take it easy

by Boss Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:55

'Such a tolerant group you are'

- People posting comments to this article or any article on Indymedia don't necessarily represent the views of the author or any group. Just as it can often be a futile exercise to group bash the gardai, it's also unncessary and unhelpful to try and box group Indymedia users/writers/contributors or indeed any activists. - If someone posts a comment, hold them accountable, not the entire community.

by Cynical of a monday Mon Sep 15, 2003 13:53

Yes as someone pointed out above, these articles do always seem to have "them shaking in their boots". The other thing is that the Garda(i) arresting/escorting/guarding whatever facility or person ALWAYS seem to agree with the protesters. This is silly, the Gardai don't agree and have a very low opinion of us posters and readers of indymedia. Fair play to the person who confronted the Suds (such a rugby boy nickname) but lets not turn these incidents into a sort of; "down the pub talking about the fight I was in last night" shite.

I mean lets at least be honest here, I doubt if the suds will ever even remember this incident, one thing we all know, he won't be posting the story on www.capitalistrkool.com

by Ex-Duke - D.I.Y. Exteriors Mon Sep 15, 2003 17:17

This protest sought to draw attention to Sutherland, BP, the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland (ACCI)and the ideology of greed that binds them. Also to highlight the resultant destruction it causes...

Now, from Sutherlands speech

"Next year during Irelands EU Presidency we must ensure that a common defence policy is reached and Ireland accepts its responsibilities as a global player."

The next ACCI business lunch, Oct 6th is being held in Cork with President of the European Parliament, Pat Cox as guest speaker.


http://www.amcham.ie/events/corklunch.htm

Also

They f'd over the Alaskan natives next stop the West Papuans.

Greg Palast on the Exxon Valdez oil spill

http://gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=8&subject_name=Exxon%20Valdez

Check out BP's involvement and how the natives 'developed'

by Mankind Mon Sep 15, 2003 18:09

Hey, Drbinoche I do know about West Papua and so, I'd imagine, do most of the posters here. Please check it out. Even a few FFers and almost all of Lab, FG, and all the others you would expect to know about these matters are in agreement that West Papua is not part of Indonesia and the gun point referendum of 1968 (where one thousand of West Papua's one million population were 'consulted') was a total farce. So you're a bit out on your own there in denying the unjust situation and ongoing genocide in WP.

Cynical, I think Sutherland will remember what happened. It seems he met a real human being. These things don't happen to often to old Jabba. Perhaps you're just miffed you missed the fun. Oh well, so did I.

Papua Head, well done, this is how it's done you clever bastard. Better than standing outside chanting boring slogans with red and black banners and talking about how Trotsky would be turning in his grave.

Sorry for that last comment, don't want to start another bout of in-fighting. Have a nice day.

by Grateful Tue Sep 16, 2003 14:42

Congrats and thanks to all involved in the creative and brave action against Sutherland... great report as well!

let's work to keep a focus on the bilderberg group.

by Itchie Feet Tue Sep 16, 2003 15:07

To Boss,

I agree with you and am sorry I was not clear. My above point was referring only to those who feel they need to come here to bash the Gardai. I would like to apologize to Boss and anyone else who felt my comment was incorrectly aimed at them.

Oh and to Mankind, DrBinoche has in no way denied "the unjust situation and ongoing genocide in WP" I have seen his posts and I understand you feel some conflict with this man, but his point was, like mine, about the need of some people to instantly assume that the Gardai are against you because....well I don't actually know why. Just a point, I'm not trying to get at ya.

Anyway, I would just like to say fair play to PapuaHead for confronting this man. I have checked some background on this and I agree that this man is not right. Just my opinion

by Anonymous Tue Sep 16, 2003 16:18

I just want to say well done Papuahead. That is a fantastic protest you orchestrated by yourself -and a brilliant article to boot.

Id say you were shitting it going up to him. Takes an awful lot of guts to do what you did - and you did it - and did it with dignity.

I totally agree with you that we can not leave it up to "others" to do this, others, to pick up the phone and ring their local td to protest about something, others, to attend the march etc. etc.

Each individual person has got to do it for themselves.

"What will it take to make them listen?" This is definitely one of the things that will help make them listen. Millions of individual actions by millions of different individuals all mounting up one after another - cause & effect.

And from some individual actions and from some individuals whole movements can sprout from.

His reaction was very interesting:-

"He listened with amazement as if hearing dissent for the first time in his lifeWhat will it take to make them listen ?"

I have got similar reactions from journalists in the mainstream media. On the RTE newsdesk for example - I rang them directly to try and get some coverage on a protest. I went into some detail with the journalist giving a brief synopsis of the devestation being caused by capitalist globalization, comparing it to a holocaust (recently I heard a guy from the Global Aids Alliance in an excellent interview on Newstalk using the same terminology). The journalist acted with shock & horror at my works and was "looking" at me as if I had two heads.

Question is, how much does Peter Sutherland know about how his actions are affecting the victims on the ground?? How far removed from reality is he in his vast palaces? Big question I think.
Similarily with the police - they see "hoards" of protestors, some with long hair and colourful clothing - do they have much idea what we are on about and whats going on in the world? I doubt it. They need to be educated, and we are the ones who must make this education happen.

To go back to your closing question again:-

"What will it take to make them listen?"

All human beings have a conscience and have the ability to do evil, but also good. This includes Peter Sutherland.

I think there are many ways we can make them listen - and probably more importantly just take the power out of their hands by using people power.

But one of the ways that I think will help this is by being aware of their conscience, and then to try and get to this conscience. I launched a personal campaign for several years on all the leaders involved in the Northern Ireland peace process years ago, to try and appeal for some sanity & humanity, and judging from responses (which took a long time to elicit!), I believe I got through (to some extent) to at least one of the key figures in the process.

Once again well done Papuahead.

For the sake of the beleagured people of the planet, we can not & must not lose.....

by Anonymous Tue Sep 16, 2003 18:13

So good I copied & pasted them out to keep them for posterity! :)

by Grateful Wed Sep 17, 2003 14:22

I'm sure Sutherland's quite aware of the harm his actions are inflicting on indiginous peoples in places like West Papua... much like virtually all third world colonizers knew (in fact celebrated- Culture and Imperialism~) exploitation/slavery etc of those they colonized...

It's not that Sutherland suddenly heard for the first time that he was responsible for participating in an unjust/exploitative system that is directly/indirectly devastating the lives/cultures of thousands but rather that someone dared to confront him about it. Thanks again to the WPheads involved in the action.

by Mankind Wed Sep 17, 2003 16:09

Actually that gun point referendum was in 69 not 68.

by BlackPope - Championship League Wed Sep 17, 2003 22:33

Do you automatically give your money to any idiot in the street who asks for it?
In that case, resign yourself to being poor.
Otherwise, discriminate.

In the case at hand - police harassment while engaged in your lawful duty as a citizen - discriminate *HARSHLY*:

1.. wolfwhistle for a bunch of teammates as backup; activate team's overt and covert recording devices
2.. caution would-be 'peeler' that impersonation of a police officer is a criminal offence - this will deter clowns
3.. identify the clown - write it all down (name, number, station, SEXURAL orientation) amid laborious thumb-licking and a huffeling display of self-importance
4.. get badge in both hands, bend and flex to breaking-point, compare foto to head, chow down on star to test if solid gold
5.. if wrinkles appear in the paper, foto looks manipulated or you cannot leave a visible molar-imprint on star - REJECT!!
6.. ask peeler why he *NEEDS TO KNOW* information X - this normally stuns into embarassed silence or a pathetic rejoinder such as, "Ach, sure I was on'y wondering.."
7.. bovine caught on rear hoof? drive home advantage with continued onslaught ..
8.. "Well, officer, your job description hardly includes aimless wonderment so I strongly suggest you go do some actual WORK now instead of standing around here bone idle!"..wasting taxpayers money is tantamount to theft..go hassle some CRIMINALS..etc.. teammates provide chorus
9.. by now you should be rid of all but the most tenacious sex-pest
10.. if he insists, even despite these odds, loudly accuse of harassment. Become more shrill as debate heats up.
11.. demand repeatedly, "For what lawful reason do you *NEED TO KNOW* this information, officer?"
12.. do not allow yourself to be fobbed off with some BS or threats of 'down to the station'/arrest
13.. state loudly, "If you won't tell me why you *NEED TO KNOW* my name, then of course I'm not giving it to you! Stop begging!"
14.. feel free to use the whole width of the street to run around in
15.. have several teammates join in scrum, helps morale
16.. when charged always reply, "Seargent, will you please take your hand off my bum!" - and insist it is written down!
17.. launch counter-persecution for wrongful arrest, your case is watertight!
18.. use the compensation money to fund further actions

DO NOT reward the idle curiosity of a politically motivated pest by liberally grassing yourself up. It all goes on file, can and will gleefully be passed on to other 'friendly' 'security' services. Believe me, they boast about this (literal) set-up.

DO practise NTK info-control system and ritual humiliation in front of mirthful witnesses

Use every opportunity to launch into a stern lecture about the Citizens Bill of Rights, European Court of Human Rights precedent X binding since ratification of Nice Treaty, Irish Council for Civil Liberties report etc., etc.

In summary, question, deny, argue the toss, persist - make them WORK DAMNED HARD for that scrap of info. This is what they fear the most! It has NOTHING to do with policemen's personalities, much to do with their motives - err on the side of caution before assuming these to be innocent.


Schalom, BlackPope

PS: remember MLK, just 'having' rights is of no avail - you need to ASSERT and EXERCISE them, without fear, only determination.

by BP Wed Sep 17, 2003 22:56

The 'Gestapo' thing is neither a joke nor hyperbole, it is a warning vision of the future, the natural consequence when citizens surrender control of their country to the government and their rights to police repression.
The trajectory into NATO and worse is firmly set - It's long past time to start the counter-offensive.

by Gaillimhed Fri Sep 19, 2003 16:25

and Papuahead has shown the way for the most of us who are merely people; walk up, grip the hand, look straight in the eye and give it to them.

Thank you papuahead -you are certainly worthy of a place in a world free from the likes of sutherland, Ahern and Bush.