Propaganda Machine Feeds on Its Own Excrement: "Anarchists' Video Urges Dublin Riots to Destroy EU"

by dunk - EASA- euro architectural student assembly Fri Apr 16, 2004 17:55

hi lads
posted about mayday, indymedia centre, oppposition to fortress europe, the 2 vids on the EASA forum- main communication space for europes architectural students

http://easa.antville.org/stories/756655/
hope this ok with ye
would like if some of you could encourage furthe debate there

thanks
dunk

by Joe Wed Apr 14, 2004 17:21

"Garda lacks power to stop arrival of May Day militants" p4 Irish Times.

"Lurid media coverage demonising EU protesters is anti-democratic" p12 Irish Times.

by Joe Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:31

From the Indo (which also ran a crap story in the same issue)

---

Royston opens his mouth again. Well, he's to change feet now and then

Fresh from the diplomatic treadmill that was hosting a reception for Open House last week, Dublin's beloved Lord Mayor Royston Brady is once more setting the world to rights.

This time, he is calling for anti-globalisation protestors to be kept out of Ireland in the run-up to the May Day accession celebrations to be held here in Dublin.

Effortlessly tapping into the ridiculous paranoia which has been whipped up by some of the more hysterical elements in the Irish media, Brady claims that "in the past we have seen European police forces co-operating and sharing information to prevent football hooligans from crossing borders. A similar type of operation is needed to prevent violence in Dublin's city centre".

While that might play very well with his boss Bertie and the type of people he is hoping to appeal to in his European MEP candidacy race, perhaps someone should remind him that the only fatality during any of the anti-Globalisation demonstrations was that of a protestor shot dead by Italian police. Even during the so called 'Battle of Dame Street' here in Dublin, it was very obviously the police who were the aggressors.

So is Royston saying that in order to minimise trouble in Dublin we should bar both the Italian police and their Irish hosts from attending?

If their previous form is anything to go by, the day would certainly be a lot safer.

---

Ian O'Doherty

by sean Mon Apr 12, 2004 15:39

simple - just keep a copy of this edition of this paper and stop reading it from now on. explain to others why you are no longer reading it. disempower it from your lives. with your other hand, switch off your tv.

by ban on Wed Apr 07, 2004 04:09

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/288533.html

by pc Wed Apr 07, 2004 00:04

all the hype deflated in one swoop

yeah perhaps my first reaction the the tabloid articles weren't specificly refuted made me feel the issue wsn't dealt with but the three guys explaine their view wellmaybe that was all that wa needed

by Wills Tue Apr 06, 2004 23:31

Excellent stuff. Can't wait to see what the hacks make of the Primetime programme.
They did use a subtitle for Ciaran, twice, and it included the word indymedia. Can't remember if the "I" was capital or not.
Excellent stuff, but Rory was interrupted a few times completely unnecessarily. What is it with TV and radio interviewers that they have to interrupt when someone is making a point which the authorities disagree with?

by pc Tue Apr 06, 2004 23:26

summary and comments
very short piece on mayday which really didn't get into enough depth to throw light on the subject one way or the other
asked was it mayday mayhem or state sponsored hysteria?

showed "spoof??" video....

had security and defence analyst declain power on, who is he ?

he talked of real treat, sinister, violence etc....
"riots on mayday"

said gardai knew of 30 hardcore protestors coming from outside ireland

Laurance cox was on, described party protests and invited all types down to join in and a spoke of a noisey night at farmleigh....

laurance always looks uber-calm strangley calm, sorry but he does

ciaran moore was on said he never say any violence but the guards

showed pics of black bloc throwin stuff at gothenburg and genoa, said one protestors was shot dead

showed oft used gardai riot training vid

roysten brady wanted to know if the guards could handle it... didn't mention protests at all directly

declan power said we wanted "storm farmleigh"

lots of mentions of the wombles

mcdowell kept saying he wouldn't tell us what they(the guards) had planned

robert fox defence editor from london evening standard was on

he was strange, kept on saying there would be violence but said even more that they weree legitimate reason for the protest but the movement has lost its way and was confused...

mentioned international labour organisation
report on fair globalization
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/wcsdg/index.htm

used the phrase anti-globalisaion/anti-american a couple of times...

rory aherne was in studio....
again he gets his speal in well....

"no violence at mayday but guards violence"

he again said there weren't be that many coming from abroad, [ somebody said the was his attempt to downplay grassroots actions, i wasn't sure whether it was his way of down playing hype stories]

rober fox again talked of lack of direction and confusion by movement...

ocallaghan briefly asked about the "sinister" german black bloc" as germany are the only ones with one

interesting thing rory said was the the days of black bloc and chaotic protests were over ....

that the social forums were the way forward said the movement had changed... (i think it has a bit, but i don't know how much? certainly the trend towards holding alternative summits rather then simply protesting at the g8 is good imho but i think he overstated this change...?)

something that is never recognised or pointed out by ouyr guys is how much all these posts on the internat webpages are just people mouthing off and boasting and doens't represent the gernal feeling of whats going to happen on the day, there a re few idiots out there imsure


to sum up it was way too short a piece to really say anything, to debunk the tabloid stories are dicuss the issues as usual, i don't know how it would effect the people who watched it view of the day...

by eeekkkk Tue Apr 06, 2004 23:12

Laurence, Rory, Ciaran - rocked the shop and looked and sounded far more normal less shifty than the mad mullah who was also interviewed.

They even used a section of 'that' video.

No hype about arms dumps anarchist armies casseurs etc.

I think on a more sombre note however they managed to deprive Indymedia of any publicity by not striping or identifying Ciaran at all. I told him to wear an Indymedia T-Shirt but he went all no-logo on me ;-)

Write it on the walls instead! mayday -your news - read it write it - www.indymedia.ie

by lish Tue Apr 06, 2004 21:38

ring, write, fax, text & media, tv & radio shows.
this isn't up to the few people organising mayday events.
we need help!

if you have a great idea go do it. we're overstretched as it is.
do your own leaflet, paste your own posters, create your own events & most of all talk to people.

tell them you're part of mayday & not violent.
everyone has politicians, media people & police & general public in their families.
start reassuring them now about just how fluffy these events will be & make the tabloids look ridiculous.

talk about the issues that effect everybody, racism, privatisation, neutrality, lack of govt accountability, lack of accurate info & say in our communities & country. Who can argue with that?

by pc Tue Apr 06, 2004 20:11

tuesday 930 rte 1

by Fergal Tue Apr 06, 2004 17:14

People just want better services, and only the most ideological of them care who owns them. I'm against privatisation, but only because I believe no private company will pay sufficient attention to anything but their profits. If I thought private industry could run say, health, in such a way as to provide a high standard of service for everyone, at an affordable price, I'd gladly let them.
The problem is that the ownership of the services and the means by which they are delivered seems to be more important to some people than the end users - who, after all, are the sick people needing treatment, the kids needing schools, etc. This is a mistake that people on the left and right both make, putting their own politics before the welfare of the people.

by Mr Angry Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:59

Now it takes days - no contest really

by sadr city Mon Apr 05, 2004 19:36

on people and see how you get on.

by Mr Angry Mon Apr 05, 2004 19:16

"An end to the Privatisation of Public Transportation, Education, Postal Services, waste services, water treatment services and supply throughout europe."

No, no , no, this bit's all wrong. The last thing the public want is union monopolies making their life miserable. What the public want is better services and less 'job for life' incompetent wasters that the services you mention are full of. Why should we all be apologists for the lazy and inept

by Joe Mon Apr 05, 2004 18:09

We are starting to distribute 50.000 leaflets that make many of these arguments. As soon as we can get the text out of the layout we'll put it up here.

by sadr city Mon Apr 05, 2004 18:01

and publically and loudly call on busworkers, airport workers, post workers, environmentalists, trade unionists, ngos etc to do the same.

It would probably help a lot to have clear and understandable to the public set of concrete demands rather than rhetoric about 'fortress europe' 'europe of capital' and more activist/anarko lingo. Works on IMC but in the big bad world?

Here are some suggestions for specifics.

An end to the Privatisation of Public Transportation, Education, Postal Services, waste services, water treatment services and supply throughout europe.

An end to EU countries support for the illegal occupation of Iraq.

Publication of EU negotiating positions in the GATS talks with the WTO. No forced privatisation in the global south. Publication of all Article 133 committee minutes.

An EU commitment to force the IMF to drop all Iraqi debt run up by Saddam Hussein and to stop the use of this debt as a mechanism to steal Iraq from the Iraqi people.

A general ammnesty for refugees/immigrants presently in Ireland/Europe. Citizenship for kids born here to be upheld and continued and no more deportation of them with their parents.

How to get POV out there? call a press conference. Phoenix Park/Dublin Castle/Wherever. Make it Visual. Show up the scaremongering for what it is. Bring waterpistols. Get a big public row going asap. Isn't that what it is all about in the end?

End of rant.

by Andrew Mon Apr 05, 2004 17:49

Eoin your comments are obviously well meaning but they do come over as a little preachy. Remember that at this stage some 70 - 100 people have put in dozens of hours of meetings and organisation so a lot of the above has been discussed both formally and informally at considerable length.

In other words those at the centre of the bullseye are liable to get tetchy when those outside the process (to date)) appear to be lecturing them on the obvious. Which is not to say you shouldn't make such comments, just to suggest that a different tone might be useful.

As to paranoia, well 8 very hostile front pages with the maddest being the 'Anarchist army plans bloodbath in Ireland' will tend to make people paranoid. All the more so when its accompanied by secret police 'stop and search' harassement of activists. Just cause we're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get us :-)

by Eoin Dubsky Mon Apr 05, 2004 17:26

To begin, my reference to being "that extra bit more thoughtful about our actions" relates directly to the threat from armed soldiers and police at Shannon Airport. That's not the same as Mayday protests (unless people take it to the airport), and I think its clear from the context (read the entire comment, not just the last line).

You assume that I'm an avid reader of right-wing drivel and that because you haven't seen me at your Mayday organising committee or whatever that I "haven't been involved in anything" to do with Mayday. How do you know I wasn't the guy wearing the hoody and black mask who wouldn't give his name? Just kidding -- I really haven't attended any of your meetings. I try not to read any right-wing drivel, but take occasional excursions into right-wing political commentary just to see what the ideologues are saying. However I am an avid reader and supporter of left-wing commentary. While I have avoided being on the organising committee of Indymedia Ireland (the IMC collective), check the records and you'll see that I've participated since the beginning. I've never told another participant to shut up though.

Finally, I think you're sounding a little paranoid, "Badman", and perhaps have been reading too much of that right-wing drivel yourself and not getting enough sleep. I'm not out to get you, though the corporate and state media probably are. That's why I have suggested media actions (the questions re Garda conduct) and direct actions (creative, safe, open, accountable and nonviolent like Jenny and Martin's potatoe planting Good Friday action) which might be helpful in this situation. Your reaction to well meaning comments and suggestions from within the movement ("Eoin: shut up") would be alarming if it wasn't so damn common.

by Badman Mon Apr 05, 2004 14:07

You haven't been involved in anything to do with Mayday, all you seem to have read has been the right wing media drivel. Stop lecturing people and stop harping on about shannon. Also stop telling people who are the victims of a media frenzy that they are not being thoughtful enough. It is the height of arrogance when you don't have a clue what they have been up to and how they have been trying to counter the mud-slinging. You are actually adding to the mud by trying to portray the victims as somehow responsible.

by Eoin Dubsky Mon Apr 05, 2004 13:53

This time last year two people entered Shannon Airport and spent hours on the airfield, planting potatoes, praying, scouting around planes parked there, and phoning friends with updates from their witness. The cops and soldiers didn't shoot them, and when Martin later explained in court the cultural significance of their potatoe planting action on Good Friday, the older looking police and other people there that day nodded and were silent. Jenny Hannon and Martin McGowan had chosen means which were consistent with their motives, with a clarity that could shame even those soldiers and cops "just doing their jobs" at Shannon Airport. By planting those seeds in the airfield and waiting to be arrested, they also invited us (you and me) to move through fear. Police, even soldiers with guns, shouldn't stop us. But we've got to be that extra bit more thoughtful about our actions.

by ? Mon Apr 05, 2004 13:38

So, what can a non-violent protester expect on May Day if someone misses the 'sarcasm' of the video and throws a petrol bomb at the Guards?

Violent/Non Violent - we all have to be aware on how the police plan to treat this manifestation of dissent.

What are their rules of engagement? Ought they not tell us, so that we can then make the decision whether to take a bullet or baton on the head for our beliefs and so we will not be surprised if our non violent actions receive verbal abuse and we can expect our limp non-violent bodies to be carried off the road and be kicked black and blue. Or alternatively make the conscious decision that the threats of their 'lawful' acts of force outweigh our desire to protest, so we can all stay in bed.

After all this isn't an 'emergency' situation - we have the right to know how our society is to be policed, to what levels our dissent will be tolerated.

We have a right to the answers of these questions - a legally enforceable right! Some of us probably already know the answers. We should ask for ourselves and educate ourselves, not wait for the non-indymedia to do it for us and then coat the answers coming from whatever Ministry of Lies with their own anti-protest veneer.

- What are the rules of engagement for police/army?
- For what acts of protest can you lawfully be arrested/batoned/shot?
- What is the legal basis for bringing the army onto the streets? What power of arrest do the soldiers have?
- How will the rights of those detained in ad hoc dention centres or by the army be protected?
- Has force been authorised to remove a non-violent protester from a street?

These questions apply to those who plan to use non-violence as well as those wish to match the state in their brutality. Which to use, i'll not enter that debate - but we should all be prepared and be able to expose those who it appears have already been planning and training to oppose both violent and non-violent protest with violence.

by Eoin Dubsky Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:22

Bemused suggests that we should ask ourselves "why in the past 2 to 3 weeks, there has been a media blitz of scare stories?" Which s/he says is "blindy obvious". What follows though are a list likely reasons for protesting on May 1st (which the government and corporate media would prefer would stay off the agenda). They're good reasons to protest -- on May 1st and every other day.

But to be fair, the scare stories in the press haven't been about the damaging effects to power of your arguments (and that on May 1st these arguments will be clearly articulated to Joe Public, who'll in turn join the struggle for social justice etc...). They're taking issue with our means, not motives. Generally they believe us about our motives, and will say so too (like when Willie "not a hippie" O'Dea said that he admired the sincerity of antiwar activists who had damaged US military aircraft at Shannon Airport -- see http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63190#comment59946).

Sticking with means, I think it might be interesting for journalists (indypendent and mainstream), politicians and members of the public, to put some heat on the cops: What nonviolence training are they doing? What systems do they have in place to avoid another Mayday police riot? How will they react if, say, blockaders "go limp" and need to be carried? Will they be dragged and hurt, or have the police roleplayed this already and worked out how many cops they need to safely, and without hurting anyone, arrest and carry away a street-full of blockaders? When could they use shock guns, pepper spray and so on? Do cops need permission from their superiors before they can decide its time to use "reasonable force" in a situation? etc...

Make up a kinda scorecard, print it out and let people make little reports of police (mis)conduct right there and then.

When the government first said they were sending the Irish military into Shannon Airport to help the American military, the rules for shooting at protesters were said to include "to prevent damage to government property". Nobody phoned RTE and said "oh if I get shot its only cause they started it". Instead people enquired whether the Irish soldiers would carry normal bullets or plastic bullets... would they need permission before shooting someone "to prevent damage to government property"... etc.... Within about 30 minutes Minister Michael Smith was on RTE Morning Ireland answering questions and downplaying the *show* of force at Shannon. For anyone planning to do an action at Shannon without getting killed (they use live rounds) its important to know. It also helped to highlight the fact that the Irish military are allied to the criminal US imperial forces, they're not "neutral" and needn't expect their adversaries in faraway places to respect the laws of war anymore either.

Don't allow a situation where both sides can't tell what to expect, and they'll both cry "he started it" after the choas.

by Jim Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:55

Don't forget that the Irish Examiner and its evening paper the Evening Echo (published in Cork and Limerick) are part of the Crosbie group which recruited for the British Army in both the first and second world wars.

by Bemused Mon Apr 05, 2004 02:25

We need to ask ourselves why in the past 2 to 3 weeks, there has been a media blitz of scare stories?

The answer is blindly obvious. The state which has leaked stories to the obedient corporate press does not want Joe Public to hear the real reasons for the protests.

These stories are aimed at the ordinary punter, to literally scare them from bringing up the subject amongst friends and collegues.

The EU in the past few years has gained more and more power for itself. People are now rightly concerned. It is turning into a huge European state.
What with the latest being the EU constitution which no doubt when somebody gets around to looking at it in detail, will reveal it is more about protecting rights of businesses and less about individuals.

The EU has being hijacked by huge multinational corporations. Indeed there are over 500 business lobby groups employing around 10,000 people who permanently lobby the EU
These groups write most of the policies and other stuff which is adopted by the EU. Social and environmental groups do not get any access worth speaking of. Not only that the EU commission which is made
up of unelected people and meets in secret and it's proceedings are secret has far more power than the EU parliment.

Large corporations have hijacked the EU to such an extent that in the next few years, literally everything from water, waste, transport, energy, health and education is going to be privatised.
A big start has already been made on this agenda, as we know with the Bin Tax and Dublin Bus. The city manager has publicly stated he is going to start charging for water when the Bin Tax issue is out of the way. Privatisation is not just affecting Ireland. All the other countries are being targetted too.

The social welfare system, of fair taxes, state health care, free education and so forth is being dismantled as we speak all over Europe.
For the first time since 40 years or more, Germans are now having to pay for university and health care.

Elsewhere in Europe, the guarantees that the previous generation had for their pensions no longer exist for us anymore. All the risk has been transferred to the individual.
It is now impossible to get a pension anywhere that has any guaranteed level of income at the retirement. Not only that the retirement age is being raised everywhere.

The reality is that work which robs us of the best years of our lives from our early 20s to mid 60s, is now being extended right into the very ends of our lives, into our 70s.

There is just so much happening and to protest about, you could fill 100s of pages.

Anyway I think perhaps people get the idea. The government or should I say the state which lets face it doesn't serve the people but is completely in the hands of big business and corporatations is frightened that the public will wake up to what is going on.
And it is so worried that it has cranked up the hype and fear to these incredible levels. And this is all the more evident considering that these stories are such complete and utter fabrications.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of
state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

See: Methods of Media Manipulation
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Media/MediaManip_Parenti.html

by Freddy Mon Apr 05, 2004 00:58

100 arrested on Paddys day? thats a drop in the ocean. If they were actually doing their job it would have been about 400. They are turning an old military barracks into a temporary prison for use during the protest. Sounds like they won't put the resources into "normal" policing, but they can bring out half the garda force and a thousand of the military to deal with a bunch of "lefties".

by believer Sun Apr 04, 2004 23:23

you must have been stoned on paddys day -
city centre stations were full
100 arrests in bridewell/store/pearse street doesnt sound like 'not a peep'

garda were hopelessly outmanned due to overtime payment concerns

by J Healy Sun Apr 04, 2004 18:48

There wasn't a peep out of the guards on St Patrick's Day, when drunken teenage yobbos were allowed to run riot in Dublin. But its a different story when people want to protest against injustice and social inequality.

So, if you are a drunken or drugged up hooligan you have a free hand to terrorise the general populace, but if you dare to criticise the politicians you will be hammered into the ground by the states hired thugs, and on top of that they will lay the blame on you in advance.

Have the mainstream journalists been too busy to have noticed that contradiction? Or do they care?

by out in the water Sun Apr 04, 2004 18:19

.

by old footage of violent protest? Sun Apr 04, 2004 18:07

cornered protesters with their hands in the air on may 6th 2002 don't you? Now let's keep it accurate.

by Ois - WSM Sun Apr 04, 2004 18:02

Apart from the clip that said 'there've been scare stories' and showed a cilp of a riot RTE, I saw nothing in any way frightening, or worrying in that video.

So, what piss-take? I thought that video was fairly good and fairly serious. There was nothing in it that I'd disagree with so what's the probelm with it? What's the piss take?

by Cathy - Concerned About Tree-Hugging Yuppies Sun Apr 04, 2004 18:02

Maydayer wrote "It is not the Irish protesters who are arming themselves to the teeth and training for violence is it? Lets look at the facts and look behind the propaganda lie machine. Any violence on Mayday if there is any will likely come from the State against the protesters, the Government is running scared".

Tosh!

Past experience has shown that there's an awful lot of pushing, shoving, barrier-jumping, barrier-throwing, window breaking and so on at these May Day things in London, and unfortunately increasingly over here.

The Guards are trained professionals who as part of their job have to keep tabs on such activity. As a result their own personal safety is being put at risk, and it's for this reason that they're training like crazy for Mad Day.

Don't take it personally! They are not running through flames of petrol bombs for the craic, or to intimidate the RTS or Anarchist protestors, but rather to make sure that they don't find themselves in any unexpected situation when the day comes. A rope-walker wouldn't have learned his trade starting 50ft in the air without a safety net, likewise the Guards aren't going to go into MayDay without prior practice.

BTW, there was nothing, absolutely nothing sarcastic about that MayDay 2004 video, some muppet(s) who made that video made it absolutely clear how they intend it to progress, using old footage of violent protest can only suggest that they intend further violent protest. Pillocks, Lamps, Planks, Gougers, Eejits!!!

Cathy

by pc Sun Apr 04, 2004 15:03

maybe im contradicting myself before i even start but as she describe no physical violence occured em now verbal attacks nad threatening behaviour may be a form of violence but i still don't that qualifies as the type of violence suggested in the post she responded to... people can get het up at marches they need to learn to control themselves

wheres the rest of the fianna failers against the war i'd like to hear from them

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sun Apr 04, 2004 13:29

I'd have been glad to see her poster on an anti-war march.
We need to convince more people, not turn away those who are with us.
I would defend her right to hold her poster as she did and, if the violence happened as she says it did, it was very wrong.

by as do many other fianna failers Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:41

Now there's a headline

by Golda Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:25

Im a social democrat.
Im a FFer of the De Valera mindest, one who wants a free, Gaelic, fair Ireland.

Its a pity some people in my party have forsaken their roots. Speak to the FF grassroots and you will get a different picture to that McCreevy paints.

by as do many other fianna failers Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:20

Now there's a headline

by ec Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:18

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420096240

How they destroyed argentina
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=96&row=1

how they are foisting debts run up by a (their for a lot of the time) Dictator on the people of iraq as a mechanism to steal their country:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1179708,00.html

Lovely people in punchestown this weather charlie - as ever

by Golda Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:11

Firstly, I said 'Fianna Failers' aginst the War. not FF against the war.

Im against the Globalisation of world culture; thats why Im a social democrat. And thats why i hate socialism and international capitalism.

by ec Sun Apr 04, 2004 03:02

McDowell about this:

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/dec/06euclassified.htm

'Crisis Operations' seems a suspiciously broad use of terminology.

by pc Sun Apr 04, 2004 01:28

hmmmm, you'd think he'd check twice??

i was about to post that the examiner to me seemed to be the best of a bad bunch again having put the story of large scale weapons going through shannon on its front page too, but i can't belive this was an honest mistake

ok lets look at it positively how is that on a few occasions the examiner does put decent stories in its paper....

by Hiker Sun Apr 04, 2004 01:12

Golda will no doubt take that hike up to the Phoenix Park and will be able to tell us how the evil anarchists threatened him/her because s/he had a placard saying "Fianna Fail against globalisation".
You're a laugh a minute.
Hope I see you there....

by Sun Apr 04, 2004 01:01

3rd April 2004

by Golda Sun Apr 04, 2004 01:00

Hahahha, typical, bloody typical.

Oh believe me, I have many witnesses, and no, none of them are in FF.

I never said everyone in FF was against the war, all I know is that I was. YOU TAKE A HIKE.

by BS spotter Sun Apr 04, 2004 00:56

"Golda" is just a lying troll.
Fianna Fail were never against the war.
I dont believe the incident golda refers to ever took place.
Take a hike, golda.

by Eoin Dubsky Sun Apr 04, 2004 00:44

"R Isible", to be fair I think it should be clear from my previous comment that I wasn't having a swipe at Indymedia posters "who don't advocate extremist pacifism".

Its just that I don't have the article handy (I'm in France), and can only go by what I've read on Indymedia and the video. Juno (he's a he btw) may have made a mistake, and I think if so it could have been an honest one too.

The Examiner, to be fair, has been by far the most sympathetic and consistent of the broadsheets in Ireland for anti-war stuff. Just today Michael O'Farrell wrote a piece on global arms trade links to Irish universities (http://www.twelvehorses.com/en_US/newsfeed/story.jhtml?s=54911615&r=378&i=111651758&d=38143681). He also broke the story of global nuclear weapons development links to Hewlett Packard in Galway in December 2002. The Examiner splashed it across the cover, gave him a two-page spread and wrote an editorial about it to boot. The Irish Times and Indo both ran large ads for HP the following day (consumer products, not nukes) and only a tiny article buried inside their papers declaring that HP had no comment to make and the Government would soon clear up this misunderstanding with a prompt investigation in the Examiner's allegations. Search http://archives.tcm.ie/ to see for yourself.

by Golda Sun Apr 04, 2004 00:43

Wasnt that way for me........

I was partaking in 3 of the anti-war protests in Dublin. When some scum burned the American flag outside the Dáil, a flag that represents a whole nation, not just Bush, I showed utter distaste for what was going on. I was voicing my opposition of this to my friend, when a Arabic-looking man (who was holding a Kurdish flag at the time) butted in and said i was a traitor. I defended myself (verbally), and then he threatened to headbutt me. Now thats anti-war for ya......
I felt like decking him, but that would just make me as bad as him, and taint the protest. So much for free speech.
And seeing as Im in FF, I received alot of abuse from people, both verbal and physically threatening, because I chose to hold a sign 'FFers against War'.

by R Isible Sat Apr 03, 2004 23:08

I'm assuming that "Juno McEnroe" is a "she" not a "he"? Trivial question, just interested and after all if s/he is sexing up the story I don't see why we shouldn't sex him/her.

On Eoin's more serious points I don't see how someone could actually perform the _research_ required by a journalist (a member of the NUJ committed to their high standards of excellence and ethics no less) and not understand that the video was a pisstake when there was a discussion about the bloody thing almost as soon as it went up.

I think this is wilful stupidity and misrepresentation and shouldn't be used as an excuse to have a go at posters who don't advocate extremist pacifism.

by Eoin Dubsky Sat Apr 03, 2004 22:32

Taken in the context of Indymedia content more generally, I think its fair that someone who watches that video might'd get the joke. I mean, when someone posts onto Indymedia that they're up for a street party or direct action, black bloc stuff or whatever... do you immediately think they're just taking the piss? All this "smash the state" stuff is just a big hoot?

Maybe it is, and I've been arguing about violence and nonviolence on Indymedia with people who are only having a laugh (is that why so few people use their real names? Look, its only the peaceniks -- oh shit!). But I don't believe that. I think if Juno read a few of the most recent articles and comments on the Indymedia Ireland newswire (e.g. Bush visit or DHKC), he could be forgiven if he didn't spot the tongue in cheekness of the video. I haven't read the article cause I only get the online edition here, so I don't mean to comment about his journalism; this is about ours.

by Grofatz Sat Apr 03, 2004 22:14

Clearly there is a Black OPs operation going on here. Probably some CIA heavies over here directing the Irish Puppet Regime on how best to characterise activists and progressives as Terrorists a la OBL.

by other vid viewer Sat Apr 03, 2004 20:28

It is obvious a garda agenda is being pushed here. I mean it is a blatant lie on the front page of a national newspaper.

by pc Sat Apr 03, 2004 20:20

i must watch the thing again but i really didn't think it encouraged violence at all even in a sartirical way ???

if you look i posted as such when i watched the video...

by SM Sat Apr 03, 2004 18:53

Like we concern over selves on how people would interprete the 'Passion of Christ' and use it as an excuse for violence yet every person who will see this movie on the net will sees its ironic value? Please standards for all that is what this was all about I thought?