Call for a Padded Bloc on May 1st - help protect yourself and others on Mayday this year!

by Eoin Dubsky Tue Apr 13, 2004 23:33

I read someone in a comment suggesting a few days ago that posts like the one above may have been planted by people with an interest in justifying another police riot. "Oh look, they're covering themselves in padding, we'd better hit harder or they won't feel it..."

Perhaps the person above isn't an agent, but because they haven't given their real name I don't know who I could apologise to. Still, I'm pretty slow on stuff like this and even *I* get the feeling that something is afoot when all these sort of posts appear. Hmmm

Foam may not be worth all that much to you, and I recall the Czech police did most of their attacks on protesters once they had been arrested already. What little protecting the Italian crew with all the foam provided to their bloc was quite useless to the people beaten and kicked in the police station. Dressing up for a fight probably doesn't have much of a calming or civilising influence either on the cops and soldiers.

by skinny michelin Wed Apr 14, 2004 00:07

Padding can be seen as a come on for a beating so big overt padding can be made by media elements to seem like a warning sign of planned violence. There are two other options, hidden padding, its not as good for absorbing impacts but it works and if its light and easy to move in then mobility is not impaired for when we flee from the rabid public servants, pricey sports pads fit this bill, shin guards, skate pads, those padded rugby vests, motorcycle jackets, if you have them or can blag some for the day then why not. Alternatively no pads at all, rely on not getting yourself a beating and if it happens, it can all be turned into delicious political capital. There would be no greater defeat for the partisan media and overactive elements of public order if there are lots of photos of unprepared peaceful protestors being beaten by overdressed and rabid preservers of peace, we should do everything we can to present an event that cannot be spun to their aims. The authorities want a proud end to the EU presidency, the only ones who can mar that is themselves, we must do everything we can to ensure that peaceful protestors are not scapegoated, that means holding your nerve in the face of bad odds and ensuring that aggressors can be portrayed as nothing other than aggressors.

by Peig Mahone Wed Apr 14, 2004 00:28

Anyone object if I foam at the mouth?

by Pixie Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:14

Let's face it the padded block as performed by the wombles seems only to have led to increased police violence. I've seen it several times while covering protests in London for the media (as a freelance).

The tactic, as developed by the white overalls / tutte bianci in Italy, was based on a developing social discourse that involved hundreds of people.

It was developed and enforced on the streets. The tactic of non violence and discipline was enforced, some would say in a very macho and authoritarian style, with people who violated the no drink rules or who threw a stone being physically thrown out of the demonstration etc.

What I'm saying is that while the tactic of no offensive violence can work, it relies on numbers and on discipline.

All too often I've seen a small number of people pad up, then simply become the focus of police aggression. Yes I've seen people in padding push through police lines, but I certainly have not seen them 'attacking' the police. Indeed mostly what I have seen is the police raining down bloody hard blows on these folks who have been brave enough to mark themselves out for such attention.

This small padded block could work, but when surrounded or flanked by people who may throw stones or whatever, then the tactic of non-violence breaks down, since the crowd is mixed. In these situations those with padding again become a focus of police violence.

I still think there's a lot to be said for padding up for self defence, but it must be done with a careful strategy. This must include talking openly to the media and other activist groups or blocks about what the idea behind padding up is, and having consensus on the tactics to use - eg we will push through police lines but we will not hit the police etc

One scenario which would be interesting to see would be a padded block protecting a larger group of people who are sat down locked on together. In this situation it would be clear even to the police and the media that the role of the padded block is simply to protect.

Of note perhaps is the RAF Fairford Coack Kidnapp case, where on the one hand police allowed people to keep arm padding and hard hats, seemingly accepting that these were for self defence, but confiscated motor cycle helmets (saying these could be swung as a club!) and larger padding saying these could be used to breach fences by laying over the top of barbed wire. Meanwhile out of those who reached RAF Fairford a few padded up, quickly to become the focus of the police - at least one was arrested.

I also remember a demo at the labour party conference in Brighton a couple of years ago when police made pre-emptive arrests of people who were padding up.

So...

What I'm saying is think about it.
Think about the purpose and the aims.
Think about the presentation of the tactic.

I also agree with what another poster here has said - that padding often does not help if the police really want to injure people and spill blood as seen in genoa and other demonstrations.

Hopefully this will not be the case over the MayDay weekend.

by Mr Soya Bean Man Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:01

If you were smart, you'd all wear suits.

Padding definitely IS a come-on for a beating. If you want to frighten the folks at home watching on the teevee, then padding and helmets is the way to go. Wear a suit, wash your hair (maybe even shave! [for girls this is optional]) and the Gardaí will assume you're a trainee accountant and therefore leave you alone. If anyone turns up with those damn juggling sticks and string (which so many of you will) you deserve everything you get.

by David Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:28

If there is a strategy of having different blocs based on the level of action people are willing to take then this is going to be very difficult to defend under questioning from a hostile media. It has become standard practise to split protests up into various sections designated by flags, pink flags for those who want to do passive resistance and perhaps black flags for those who wish to do more direct resistance. This theoretically protects "innocent", unprepared, protestors from police violence (unless the cops go scitz and ignore the distinctions) and allows all protestors to work together without any particular group being exploited by another. (again in theory)

However, if we announce that there is going to be a black bloc seperate from a pink bloc and then try to explain that the pink bloc is for everyone who is unwilling to risk police violence, it will seem like the black bloc is prepared to cause riots and no matter what we say thats how the media will interpret it like that.

Basically, the media War is one we are not going to win, so we should not allow such considerations to affect our tactics for the day. we should do what is most efficient and what fits in best with our various ideologies because the media are going to find (or make up) reasons to shit on us no matter what.

by Acid Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:04

For me the media has very little to do with being padded up. A number of people have heard first hand the the army are more then willing to help out in 'controling' the crowds. At the end of the day, I dont want to be injured.
As proven in the last month or two, the media will never EVER look at such a thing from a different view then what they're told from their rulers. A heading will never ever read 'anarchists and hippies gear up to protect themselves from violent adrenaline fueled cops and army troops'.

by Shannon Instead? Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:44

Seeing as though Dublin is going to be so over-protected, how about heading to Shannon for a demo there.. we could have a picnic and there won't be any water cannons!

by ec Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:52

Why can't Irish People deal with things in an Irish way? Copying British German and Italian Protest tactics by wrote is a symptom of a style rather than substance fixated post-colonialism.

by Party goer Wed Apr 14, 2004 13:33

Why not make it into a fancy dress party? It should be a day of celebration of our opposition to the authorities. Let us decide to do it in our own way, not imitate others.

Maybe even a nude protest? If ye cover yourself in grease the cops wont be able to grab you!

by jack white Wed Apr 14, 2004 16:25

what were you thinking when you wrote this tripe? Here's a few critisisms of what you said but really there wouldn't be a problem if you just did a bit of thinking before you started tapping away on your keyboard...

1. don't go throwing around accusations of 'plants' or even suggestions without some kind of research.

2. dressing up in padding doesn't justify any kind of police violence

3. "perhaps the person above isn't an agent... but even *I* get the feeling that something is afoot": Even you? why, are you normally magically in the lop or something?do you telepatically pick up on what happens or is discussed at meetings?... maybe the walls are lined with lead or something, must look into that.
I know its not a plant, but then i know the person who wrote it, but then i have been going to some of the organising meetings and not just running my mouth off on the net.........

4. wearing padding isn't dressing up for a fight.

by Bakunin Wed Apr 14, 2004 20:26

A nice idea might be to make the padding big bright colourful and down right ridiculous,
bring big inflatable rubber dingys, space hoppers, those swimming pool thingys (lielows- lilos) i dont know but anyway . the media wont be able to accuse you of dressing to riot if you have an inflatable barney doll strapped to your body!

by David Wed Apr 14, 2004 21:04

there are pros and cons to everything, nobody can claim to have a monopoly on tactics.
Anybody who wants to wear overt padding, wear it,
Anybody who wants to protect themselves but not draw attention to themselves can wear concealed padding such as skateboarding gear or even magazines strapped to your arms and legs. Or you could wear ridiculous looking padding to attract media attention and discourage garda violence..
people who dont wear padding can either (a), stay away from the padded bloc if you are worried, or (b) support them and perhaps enjoy some of the protection their strategy might offer to the more mobile protestors

All of these tactics have merit and drawbacks and they can all either compliment each other or cause divisions depending on people's attitudes.

We will need to work together over the mayday weekend because one thing is for sure, we are going to be outnumbered by very well equipped forces who might be authorised to cause trouble.

We should not be worried about the media representation because we already know what it will be

by Feral Faun Wed Apr 14, 2004 21:54

http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/ferocity.htm

Has anyone read this? Have any opinions on it?

It seems to me that ppl are falling over themselves to play off any action/idea/remark that veers even slightly from the "activist" "non violent" norm (and the conformity associated with it) as some sort of undercover police operation or government plot? That piece of graffiti outside the ff office of "riot mayday", has it ever occured to ppl that it was more than likely done by a well intentioned (?) albeit misguided (and probably young)person? Has anyone made use of their oh so brilliant critical analysis on this site to even question the underlying authoritarian and privileged view point that is pacifism? Who needs state control when we have the media and "public opinion" (whatever that is) to do it for them?

by Telestreet Wed Apr 14, 2004 22:02

'We should not be worried about the media representation because we already know what it will be.' that sounds defeatist and self serving to me Mainstream media is not monolithic here (or anywhere) and is itsself a possible field of protest and resistance. A large proportion of Italian Public ire at the events in genoa which led to an eruption of popular opinion against the G8 and Sylvio was due to one of the berlusconi national channels 'accidentaly' playing for 10 minutes or so an unedited tape of the Terrorism Unit rampaging down sidestreets on the day of carlo Guilianis Death beating everyone they could catch viciously and repeatedly. This was in my opinion (and I have a vhs of this) a dramatic hack by a person unknown. The studio commentary continued as if they thought they were commentating on a standard news edit - continuing bullshit about violent protesters etc. So that was in a dictatorial style TV station owned by the PM of Italy. Broadcasting is far more fragmented in this country and the amount of times I have heard text messages from paul kinsella read out on various stations is proof that there are always cracks in any edifice to grab onto and do some bootstrapping.

by pc Wed Apr 14, 2004 22:15

again ill echo the above, and thankfully it has been pointed out by some do what ya do and support other to do what they do

the thing people forget while laughing at crusties lefties etc is that most don't just attempt to improve the society on large scale but spend just as much time trying to improve themselves, to question there own actions as critically as they do the state etc....
they make it there business not to be fooled by the state, media etc and they do their best not to fool themseves either that's why there alot quality poeple among them

by Peig Mahone Thu Apr 15, 2004 02:30

>"Maybe even a nude protest? If ye cover yourself in grease the cops wont be able to grab you!"

by Karen Eliot Thu Apr 15, 2004 02:37

Hey Eoin, we know you're acceptably "right on", with your media celebrity status and all, but dont label anyone that chooses not to give their name or decides to promote a tactic of defence that you dont necessarily agree with. One could easily argue that you could be a "plant", choosing to do actions on your own in order to gain some cred with the anti war crowd and hence gain their trust. Outlandish? Maybe - but just as much so as your instant labelling as this poster as being a cop (do you really think a cop would write something like the above? If you're interested in cops trying to make out like they are protesters, you should look at the Abbeyshrule Direct Action site, that has MI6 or Special Branch written all over it)

And Eamonn Crudden, get over your feckin situationist style rants. The Padded Bloc is hardly style over substance (notice there's no call for white overalls or other generic uniform) when it deals with the practicalities of physical protection; and everything vaguely anarcho related in this country is a post colonial import (including 'video activism' done by yourself). Maybe we should revert to Fenian-style guerilla warfare instead? Would you prefer that? It wouldnt make for a very good film though.

by ec Thu Apr 15, 2004 04:23

"; and everything vaguely anarcho related in this country is a post colonial import (including 'video activism' done by yourself)."

Re the above - since (s)he is pulling off my flimsy mask - get a grip man -

ps - if you don't like the 'fenian' ranting don't read it. We don't all have Dublin accents around here. And yes there used to be a three legged dog on the road to Omeath. He was famous. If he's still alive he'd be very old. He was in an old cowboy movie about the beef tribunal called 'spill the beans' (1990).

by Joe - personal comments Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:00

I think a lot of reaction to the call for a padded bloc here is a little hysterical, in particular Eoin's. Eoin your 'analysis' would fit well into the Daily Mail. Not I'm sure what you intended so you might care to 'clarify' what you actually meant . A historical cause of problems with summit protests has been this sort of hostile pacifist dogma that inevitably elicits the reaction 'fuck you' from those being targetted.

The statement itself makes the point quite well that in the face of the announcement of unidentifable troops being used and the government hype the chances of state violence are quite high. State violence often provokes a (legtimate) reaction as people defend themselves and those around them so for the pathological pacifists amongst you a padded block should be infinetly preferable to some of the alternatives.

That said there are tactical questions and questions of style to be asked. Is this simply a case of us following fashion in Britain (and in this case a fashion that has not acheived much). The Irish far left has been dominated by the British far left for decades, is this simply the same old wine in new bottles. Does this even matter ? Well not if it works but all too often what is imported are methods of organistion much weaked than those to be found further afield.

There is an indigenous tradition of self-defence against police violence but this one would have the pacifists spluttering over their coffee. On the 31st of August 1913 police attacked crowds of locked out workers on O'Connell st and later that night went on drunken raids on the houses of unions activists. Over 500 were injured and James Nolan and James Byrne were beaten to death.

The funeral of James Nolan was"guarded by I.T.G.W.U. men with pick-handles topped with a cylinder of steel against police attack". At a rally in November Connolly announced that a citizens army was to be organised along military lines by Captain Jack White and called for volunteers. (Jack White was later to become an anarchist, see http://struggle.ws/anarchists/jackwhite.html showing that the gap between the indigenous tradition and the newer movement is perhaps not as great as some think. As long ago as 1801 the British proto-anarchist William Godwin stayed with Robert Emmets family in Dublin)

"The appearance of the Citizen Army, to quote Jack White himself, "put manners on the police". The very fact that they had weapons, even if they were only pick handles, hurleys, broomsticks etc.., and were prepared to use them, forced the police to keep their distance. The story of the Citizen Army company from Aungier Street and their dealings with the police is a good example of the situation the police found themselves in." see http://struggle.ws/cc1913/ica.html for the article from which these quotes are taken.

Padded blocs have had a limited effect in Italy but as EC points out the background to far left politics is very, very different there. Not only in terms of the enormous numbers of people active in Italy but also in terms of the long history of self-management even on the fringes of leninism.

Basically one could say that self-defence works where you already have some measure of large scale active support and you have the numbers to pull it off. It hasn't worked where you lack large scale support and any significat number of people to implement the idea. In that situation it has been turned into another stick with which the state and the media can beat you with. We would be wise to learn from this.

Some seem to think that this 'other stick' doesn't matter as the media will always attack us. This is a massive over simplification. We don't live under a leninist regime where every word that goes into the paper is carefully controlled and where papers that don't toe the line are regularly shut down. We live in a regime that needs people to believe they are actually 'free' and that as part of this they read a 'free press'. Its a regime that will use formal censorship when it feels really threatened (IE section 31) but which prefers to rely on less formal filters. And obviously the Mayday events, despite McDowells hysteria, do not represent the level of 'threat' to the establishement that republicanism did in the 1970's and 1980's.

Leave aside the theory. In the past two weeks we have seen a growing number of media questioning the 'official' line. Even the Indo has now published a good critical article (scroll up from http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64150&condense_comments=false#comment69087). This along with the articles in yesterdays Irish Times and the appearances of DGN spokespeople on Newtalk106, TV3 News and Primetime all demonstrate that even the capitalist/state controlled media can be forced to give some of the 'other side'.

But above all else we have the example of May 6th 2002 when a Gardai riot ended up as the lead item on the news and on the front pages of all the papers. Of course this was not the first way the story was spun and of course there is now an attempt to rewrite what happened. But then as well the media was forced to reveal what had happened and a good part of the reason for this was that activists and independant journalists made the effort and forced them to do so.

There is an unexplored connection between the padded bloc and the media. The padded bloc is inevitably a media spectacle. Indeed its relative success in Italy has very much made use of this spectacular apperance with many of the manifestations being complete with helium ballons, inflatable duck, huge inner tubes and other gear designed to make the participants look more like circus clowns and less like rioters.

If your going to use such a spectacular tactic then you need to embrace the spectacle and those who will portray it rather than imagine you can hide away from it. In short to follow the relatively successful Italian model (which has its own problems I won't go into here) rather than the British one.

In truth I can't see this tactic being productive over Mayday. The clear danger exists that as in London it will simply serve as the excuse for the state repression it started out to counter act. But this really depends on how the bloc presents itself to the Irish public both at the protests and in advance of them (which requires an engagement with the media rather then letting anonymous security sources define it unchallenged to the public).

The core problem is lack of support. Not lack of support for the bloc but lack of support for the demonstrations in general. Defensive formations make the most sense when you are talking of movements that comprise a real threat to state power, even if only on a local and temporary basis. That is not going to be the situation on Mayday because at no time will there be the numbers at the protests to penetrate the state security cordon in any but the most tokenistic manner.

In summary, personally I think the padded bloc is premature and there is not yet the basis for one. But if those organising it are sensable about it (and I think the call is well put together) it could be a useful rather than a damaging spectacle. Above all else I think this requires recognition of the spectacular nature of such a tactic at this time and therefore an engagement by the actors with the audience for which they will be playing. I wish them luck.

by Shinner Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:20

May Day Mobilisation
Saturday 1st May @ 12 noon Central Bank, Dame Street and march to the Phoenix Park. There will be a carnival at the gates of the park with various guest musicians. The theme for this year’s May Day event is “Another Europe is Possible”.
Areas are asked to mobilise for what is likely to be one the largest political gatherings of the year. There will be a Sinn Féin speaker at the rally and members and supporters are asked to support the event.

by who? Thu Apr 15, 2004 13:00

//Sinn Féin representative for Dublin South East Daithí Doolan has called on people to ignore unfounded media hype and spin and take part in May Day protests and said that 'Similar efforts to discredit peaceful protests are a hallmark of media coverage of such events'. Speaking at a press conference held in the Earl of Kildare Hotel this morning and organised by Another Europe is Possible, Mr Doolan said the protests were not against expansion, but against the 'kind of EU we are building' and that Sinn Féin was 'opposed to a Europe written on terms dictated by big business and corporate lobbyists.'//

http://www.sinnfein.ie/gaelic/news/detail/4153

I wonder who is hi-jacking who? SWP or Sinn Féin?

by t Thu Apr 15, 2004 13:58

There seem to be conflicting views on whats actually happening at parkgate street.Is there going to be a carnival that stays at parkgate st?or a moving one that goes into phoenix park?or a march?and how close are the garda going to let us get to farmleigh and is there going to be an effort to break through that,or is the below just agitprop.Personally i would be all for breaking through seeing as farmleigh is almost 11 and a half km from parkgate st entrance.They wouldnt hear shit from that far away!



"We intend to march to their doorstep and disrupt their dinner, to show them that we do not agree with their vision of Fortress Europe! Bring pots and pans"

by t Thu Apr 15, 2004 14:18

sorry grossly overestimated the distance ,poor map reading skills around 4km i think

by Thu Apr 15, 2004 17:50

"We intend to march to their doorstep and disrupt their dinner, to show them that we do not agree with their vision of Fortress Europe! Bring pots and pans"

This is from the grassroots march. I think you're getting mixed up with the SWP concert at parkgate in the afternoon which won't be going or even attempting to go anywhere near farmleigh. I'm not sure where the meet up point is for the grassroots march that evening.

by pc Thu Apr 15, 2004 19:19

mmm some bitching going on here?
i read eoin comments and i didn't think they was hysterical at all...

perfectly normal and not negative or directed at anyone in particular

by "John Hanley" - or is it Paul Cummins Thu Apr 15, 2004 23:37

I cant believe I managed to make sense with my last post. Makes a change from the usual drivel.

The knives are out today.

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:58

Firstly I would generally agree with Joe's considered comments above. I, personally, despise the ritualised, pseudo Christian, masochism (without even the fun sexual side) of militant pacifism.
So I say fair play to the people organising this and I'm willing to coordinate with em in any way. But I also think that without large numbers it will just be a spectacle and runs the risk being a fairly pathetic spectacle, at that, ringed by hundreds of cops which could be very dis empowering. But fuck it I'm a pessimist at the best of times.

Personally I think a much better route, if people were serious about penetrating into the park, would be small mobile blocs, very well co-ordinated around the entire perimeter of the park. The one lesson I’ve taken from Shannon is that large numbers of guards with the full riot kit (which makes em slow and clumsy) cannot adopt to numbers of co-ordinated mobile groups (even just two going in different directions seems to throw them). Basically surprise and mobility are the only small,tactical advantages we might have so a padded bloc seems to be the exact wrong way to go. I also think that even with these tactics no one will get to animal Farmleigh but they might get close enough to be a bit of an embarrassment to our " national security operation"

The padded bloc seems to be something, which could lead to a ritual, almost medieval style confrontation between two slow moving armoured formations. They also run the risk of being *the obvious focus* for the guards. Obviously the ones with the best gear on the day- eg the cops will win (a la white bloc in Genoa) in my opinion.

But I still say fair play to those who have the balls to try it and with numbers it might be interesting.

Of course with 5000 police on duty that’s really going to mean a certain climb down in other areas of the country - leaving the way open esp in Limerick for example....

Conor (wsm personal capacity)

by t Fri Apr 16, 2004 14:31 tarlach99 at hotmail dot com

well if a group of people are up for doing the small mobile blocs email me because id like to get involved.
though the only problem with the small mobile blocs is that when your actually in the park and run into 20 garda who knows what they do seeing as there would be no cameras about.....

by Advertiser.. Fri Apr 16, 2004 15:23

come along to meetings in dublin if you can make it, (one on this sunday at the teachers club http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64338) or consider holding meetings in your local area or just getting together with your friends. there will be some time in the days before the actual events to come up with small scale strategies and co-ordinate with the different groups.

by AC Fri Apr 16, 2004 16:10

Does that mean inoffensive weapons are ok?

Is this march actually happening in Dublin or tiananmen square 10 years ago?

It strikes me that a lot of people posting would like a bit of police brutality so they'd have something to complain about.

My advice: return to planet earth and remember what it is you are actually trying to acheive.

by JOHN SMITH Mon Apr 19, 2004 22:17

WILL THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO GET INVOLVED IN THE MAY PROTESTS EVER COP ON AND GET A LIFE, HAVE THEY NOTHING ELSE TO DO ON A HOLIDAY WEEKEND WITHOUT COSTING THE STATE A SMALL FORTUNE(MONEY THAT COULD BE USED FOR HOSPITALS OR SCHOOLS) IN TRYING TO SECURE DUBLIN PREMISES WHICH GIVE MUCH NEEDED EMPLOYMENT AND YES THEY WILL NEED PROTECTION BECAUSE YOU CANT TELL ME PEOPLE (NOT ALL) WONT BE JUST THERE FOR A FIGHT.

by STOP SHOUTING JOHN Mon Apr 19, 2004 22:28

spend them on a hospital - you are nuts

by Cian Tue Apr 20, 2004 01:09

Quite amazing logic displayed in the post above, where we are urged not to protest on mayday, on the grounds that a massive security operation will cost the state a lot of money!!!
Following this sort of logic... we should call off a protest as soon as we discover that the state plans to spend a significant amount of money on policing it...
Or why not just call it off right away if any money looks like its going to be spent on security?
Why bother to protest if the state doesnt like what we have to say? We should stay quiet and be obedient little citizens I suppose? We should all just shut up, go home, watch MTV and bend over whenever our self-appointed rulers decide they'd like to screw us a bit more?
Oh thats a sure-fire method for social and political reform you've got there.

by D G Tue Apr 20, 2004 19:54

wear a hat, black shoes, dark blue trousers, light blue shirt, a flourescent yellow jacket (no numbers mind)
bring handcuffs, batons, and a 'act first-think later, lie in court attitude'

if bringing a motorbike, be sure to have the matching accessories, a white helmet with the words 'GARDA' on the back, leather trousers. bate in to em' with little fear of accountability....

great spin they have there. The folk with the clubs and other weapons, who will push you, shout at you, ask your name or block your way on a whim, are 'keeping the peace'.
the people who might put a bit of foam up their jumper are 'looking for trouble'

by Lisa Simpson Sat Apr 24, 2004 18:49

Homer: Ahh, not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning dad.
Homer: Thank you honey.
Lisa: By you're logic, i can claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Hmm..how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh huh.
Lisa: Its just a stupid rock!
Homer: Uh huh.
Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around here, do you?
Homer: (looks around, thinks) Lisa, I wanna buy your rock.