Resist the corporate press, state and their lackeys

by Oddball Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:24

Yoy, or someone else, relieved a corporate journalist of their notebook - that's the sort of stuff the guards did to the indymeida jornos at mayday 2002 - --- let's not start any fascist crap here!!!

by Homer Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:27

So much for freedom of the press and free speech. How DARE you intimidate a journalist! What sort of message does this send out?

Fascist wankers!

by Barry Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:35

One or two wankers have arrived over and think they can tell the people who have put the work in who they can and can not allow in the building. They also are trying to determine what can go on there. If they are not cops they are serving the state agenda and should cop on. Pissing on your hosts carpet always goes down badly.

by James Fri Apr 30, 2004 13:14

Irish Indymedia has its own operating guidelines. There is, as far as I know, no set policy to exclude mainstream journalists from the centre. In fact a number of journalists have already been there, including ones who interviewed the DGN, those who’ve spoken at forums (Vincent and Harry Browne) and Seamus Dooley of the National Union of Journalists.

Getting noisy with a journalist for looking around the place is unjustified. BlackDog’s comment “Defend Indymedia. No retreat in face of intimidation” is that of a mind residing in fantasy land. There is intimidation of left activists, but it hasn’t come from a journalist taking a look at indymedia centre.

Calling someone who stands up for freedom of expression, not to mention common courtesy, a “lackey” who “pretended to be from Indymedia” is idiotic. In fact he’s someone who has given a lot of time to Indymedia Ireland, so please give some consideration to the facts on the ground before giving us the dubious benefit of your opinion.

Finally the Indymedia Centre is a media centre, not a convergence centre for your delectation.

by grups Fri Apr 30, 2004 13:23

the indo journo had in the past been giving good coverage to the grassroots and then an italian guy with the uk crew leaps on her.

all his uk friends defended his assault. all it takes is one moron to destroy the good work of so many for the past weeks.

people need to remember they are guests and people here are trying to help them. what do we get in return?

by Ray Fri Apr 30, 2004 13:52

If you want to avoid contact with journalists, that's up to you. But if you want to avoid the *media*, don't hang out in the *media* centre.

by Observer of things Fri Apr 30, 2004 14:11

You say:

'Some lackey of theirs then pretended to be from Indymedia and asked the good sole who had done this to leave the indymedia centre.'

This is incorrect. Yes, someone asked that the notes belonging to the journalist from the previous day's work by that journalist be handed back and and not the notes for the actual time spent by that journalist whilst in the Indymedia centre yesterday.

There was a misunderstanding regarding policy with corporate journalists which someone from Indymedia apologized for the mix-up.

The person you refer to as a lackey was not a lackey, and I find this attitude unneccessarily agressive.

I assume the original author here, and the person who has the notes is supposed to be striving for a better, more humane, socially just and sustainable future and world.

The fact that they fly work with these accusations, nor even take the time to take in the facts of what happened, regarding the mis-understanding regards policy, does not inspire confidence. Therefore in return to this 'lackey' accusation, I ask are you true to your actual political beliefs or is it just an excuse to hitch up to something to cover for your aggressive attitude?

All that was been asked, was that a reasonable comprise being made, considering 1) the mixup and 2) the considerable amount of work that had been done to rollback the worst excesses of the media.

Not giving back the notes, amounts to media suicide. Not engaging in discussion about this, shows a complete lack of respect for the diversity of opinions and of the current local situation.

What we have instead is a pig-headed attitude.

by TT Fri Apr 30, 2004 14:19

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"
Surely these Italian "anarchists" must be aware of that quote.
So when they are in Dublin they should do what any intelligent and co-operative anarchist would do, that is consult with the local anarchists.
Bearing in mind that the Italian police are 'advising' the Gardai, and given the history of the Italian police, we need to be aware of the probability of infiltration from the Italian police posing as anarchists.

by i Fri Apr 30, 2004 14:35

It is a media centre, not a squat or convergence centre.

TT, ye may be right. Given the attitude of BlackDog, I think a bit of caution would be appropriate. He, she, or it does not seem a very cooperative person and I would doubt their committment to developing a free and peaceful society.

by Freddy Fri Apr 30, 2004 14:41

BlackDog is almost certainly the real life equivalent of the type of troll who inflicts themselves on indymedia.
or a cop
not that there is much difference.

by Dr Jane Fri Apr 30, 2004 14:46

not only of behaviour in real world, but on this site.

Why is it that following a barely detailed and unverified story, the comments section is used for aggressive abuse?

Surely it should be filled firstly with request to verify the story and explain more clearly what happened?

Otherwise the prognosis is not good.
inaccurate stories and angry reactions, leading to a decline in health of the site.

As your doctor I advise some mental exercises such as side-stepping the red-mist by lateral thinking rather than the harmful jumping straight in.

by I Was There Fri Apr 30, 2004 15:18

There is a basis to this story.

A journalist was in the Indymedia Centre and her notes were taken. There was a discussion in the centre later about it, but the person who had the notes, didn't even have the courtsey to show up and listen to what people had to say.

The comments so far have been relatively informative

by Concerned Fri Apr 30, 2004 15:43

In the period 1996 - 1999, the Catholic Worker organisation who were campaigning for East Timor and against BAe, were inflitrated by 'Alan Fossey'

This person as it says from the link given:
'That Fossey could over the course of two years infiltrate, operate within, betray, and profit from an environment that contained East Timore (who on many occasions fed, watered him) who had been tortured, witnessed massacres and lost many family shows the depth of evil we are encountering in this work.'

Yesterday apparently people vouched for the person who took the notes. So therefore he is alright right and he appears to be blindly supported.

His actions were contary to the benefit and direction of the movement and struggle for a more humane, peacful, just and sustainable world.

Would the people who blindly supported him, put their brains in gear for a moment, and see if his actions are really justified. Just because you know and have worked with someone, doesn't mean you should automatically agree with everything they do.

What's matters is that people's actions are logically consistent with the aims and MEANS to achieve our goals, not blind support for their 'comrade'. By thinking we can overcome to some extent the attempt by the State to inflitrate us and crush us through internal division.

For more, read a history of how FBI informants and undercover operatatives sowed strive and division in the Black movement in the 1960s and 70s.

For example: THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY AND ITS ANNIHILATION BY COINTELPRO
http://members.efn.org/~chinosol/panth

by Alan MacSimoin Fri Apr 30, 2004 16:27

I don't know who the idiot is. What I do know is that it doesn't sound like someone who knows much about anarchism.

What gives one person and his mates the right to decide how Indymedia run their centre?

What gives him/them the right to decide who Indymedia should invite to their centre?

What gives him/them the right to decide how the Grassroots movement should relate to the mainstream press?

The behaviour described, if accurate, is authoritarian. Anarchists are struggling to end the division of the world into bosses and workers, order-givers and order-takers. The last thing we need is yet another authoritarian making decisions for the rest of us.

People who want to make decisions without referring to the people effected should piss off and join some authoritarian outfit, there are plenty of them out there!

As Ray said, if you don't want anything to do with the media - don't go to a media centre. It ain't rocket science.

by zedhead Fri Apr 30, 2004 17:02

You're not the Boss of Me, Ray!

by ping Fri Apr 30, 2004 23:42

just for the record imc is not, and should not, be a co-ordination protest space - it is an "independent media centre".

in the past when it's been attacked and raided as on several occasions the excuse has been because it's been used by black block or for organising etc etc...

like in genoa at least the police are now facing charges for planting the petrol bombs in diaz etc

but the trip stays the same... imc is an information place - a link with the outside world - a communication channel - a place to make counter information and our own media

centres changes from one mobilisation to another - each centre decides how it will run itself

but one of the problems is that because imc people work hard to provide a certain level of public facility infrastructure, people tend to see imc just as a bloody service provider - it is not - it is a participatory project, trying to reflect a different way of doing things - d'you know how fucking hard it is just to find people to help out with the door and cleaning and running spaces like this!

it has a clear purpose and that is not to provide *all* of the facilities and spaces people have gotten used to at large international mobilisations!

the imc people in ireland have done a damn good job of providing as much space as they can and have been working hard for weeks.

it's not surprising that some clashes will occur, but what matters is how they are dealt with and how we learn lessons from them.

in the case of the corporate journo, I don't think she should have been allowed in. it was pretty clear to me that journos should only be given access in these last couple of days on friday during the specific press conferences slot (3-5pm), whether they have written positive items or not.

i do think that was a serious error on someones part.

what also has to be factored in here however, and which is different from almost every other mobilisation (and yes mayday) that i've seen, is the fight back against the press propaganda that's been churned out here.

people really did carry out a pretty effective fight back against all the lies the press were printing, and managed to turn the tide for most of last week, getting a whole load of positive articles and putting the police on the back foot.

this was done via indymedia and the dublin grassroots network working hard and by communicating with some of the better journos.

i'm not saying the journos or the press coverage is of paramount importance, but it is another front in the fight to create a better world. another front where our battle lines are drawn.

sure people will get angry in these situations, but
we have to debate these things not just shout at each other. learning from others and sharing different views and tactics should be our strength.

maybe we can all discuss some of these things after mayday at the evaluation session at the imc centre on monday.

if people have other views then maybe they can write them up after, if they don't want to or can't come to the evaluation session, and make suggestions and not just criticisms.

anyway, save it, time to get on with more important things...