Fianna Fail's shame

by John Wed May 05, 2004 13:16

Here's an interesting item from BBC News website - 7 March 2002:

"Northern Ireland's hospital waiting lists have once again hit an all-time high. "

"Last March, Sinn Fein Health Minister Bairbre de Brun said she would have the hospital queue down to 48,000 by this month. "

"But the latest figures, released on Thursday, show that by the end of December, the
queue had actually lengthened to nearly 58,000. "

58,000 waiting list under SF for population of 1.7 million is 4.5 times the size of the 27,000 waiting list under FF/PF for population of 4.0 million - so if its FF's shame as headline for this thread says, then it should also be Sinn Fein's shame multiplied by 4.5.

So, how about a picket at the SF office in Dublin.

All the left-wing parties in Ireland want a completely socialised health service such as exists in the UK - here are most recent waiting-list figures from there:

England: 980,000 - 3 times as high per capita as in Ireland

Scotland: 110,000 - 3 times as high per capita as in Ireland

Wales: 75,000 - 4 times as high per capita as in Ireland

simply shows: socialism doesn't work

Also, compare like with like, waiting-lists are always higher in winter than summer, compare december 2002 with december 2004 - here they are:

dec 2002 in ireland: 29 thousand approx
dec 2004 in ireland: 27 thousand approx

so, waiting lists are coming down in Ireland

by same old comments Wed May 05, 2004 13:31

Please any promises they kept.


Ahern launches Fianna Fáil manifesto

25 April 2002 15:32
The Taoiseach has promised to keep taxes down, put more Gardaí on the streets, and end hospital waiting lists if returned to power. At the launch of the Fianna Fáil manifesto ahead of the 17 May General Election, Bertie Ahern also unveiled proposals for a new agency to raise finance for infrastructure projects.
Under the slogan, "A lot done, more to do", Fianna Fáil is stressing its record in Government as it goes before the electorate. It has also made new pledges, including a €200-a-week old age pension, a permanent end to hospital waiting lists within two years, and new legislation to give rights to the disabled.
The party has promised an extra 2,000 Gardaí, with more civilian back-up to allow them out on the beat. Tough new laws to tackle drugs are proposed, including a requirement on convicted drug dealers to register with the Gardaí.
Mr Ahern said there would be no tax increases, claiming all these promises could be funded out of the extra revenue generated by renewed economic buoyancy.
The Taoiseach said he recognised the frustrations which people have at the pace of vital infrastructural development. His big idea to tackle this is a new National Development Finance Agency, which will raise an extra €2bn per year for roads, public transport, hospitals and schools through public-private partnerships and bond issues.

by polkinsella Wed May 05, 2004 13:50

Not only do we have the waiting list scandal, lets look at what else there is?
Beverly Cooper Flynn, the double standards in not expelling Michael Collins for tax evasion, The Punchestown Centre, The use by Dempsey of Govt. resources for party political reasons, and finally the crème dela crème, the waste of 45million of taxpayers money on the electronic voting shambles. Only one of the incompetants above has been sacked. Fianna Fail, the party of corruption, no integrity, and just down right incompetence. “A Lot Done More To Do”? God help us!

by John Wed May 05, 2004 18:10

Notice how the FF/PD critics have gone off the subject of health pretty quickly. That was supposed to be their nuclear weapon for these elections and it has exploded in their faces. These other issues are as relevant to the subject of health as whether Gerry Adams was or was not in the PIRA, and can easily be discussed in another thread, where I'll be delighted to deal with them. This thread is about HEALTH, a rather important subject you'll agree. The bottom line is that hospital waiting lists are far lower under FF/PD than they were in NI under SF or in England, Scotland and Wales under the Labour Party. Does anyone disagree with that statement? If so, produce figures. If not, concede defeat. Why don't SF and other left-wing parties put the figures for hospital waiting-lists in all parts of these islands on their election leaflets and let the public judge for themselves which party has the best record?

by baffled. Wed May 05, 2004 18:31

this is an article written by FG. What has Sinn Fein go to do with it. Are you all there? who are you debating with, the wall

by pat carey Wed May 05, 2004 18:37

The fact is, in the FF manifesto they said they would get rid of waiting lists by this date. They have not. They lied to get votes. You may go on about Sinn Fein till the cows come home this is the fact. Every opposition candidate will layout your promises in your manifesto and what your record is on achieving them. They are the opposition and that is what they will do. Even the most hardy of Fianna Fail supporters acknowledges that you will get a right kicking on June 11th. This election campaign will be like shooting fish in a barrel when it comes to the governments record.

by mupet watch Wed May 05, 2004 18:44

go on the doors in south county dublin and use the excuse, ah well it was worse in the north under sinn fein, most of the people, probally about 80% wont be voting sinn fein mate, they will run you the fuck out of the garden. god, house prices where worse under the conservatives so you must be doing alright there too. get another hooby horse.

the worst thing about forms like this is any politically inept gobshite can come on and paste.

by John Wed May 05, 2004 19:51

Try and have an intelligent debate. All the left-wing parties, including SF and the Labour Party, want a much more socialised health service, such as exists in the UK. FF and PD want much greater private sector involvement. The obvious way to compare the respective policies is to look at the hospital waiting lists in Ireland and compare them with those in the socialised UK health service, and in any other countries for which you can get statistics. That's the intelligent pragmatic way to do things instead of ranting and raving. None of you deny that the figures are much lower in Ireland than anywhere else in these islands. If you can't deny that, then you should draw the obvious conclusion that a socialised health service of the type advocated by Sinn Fein and the Labour Party is not the way forward and would lead to much longer hospital waiting-lists in Ireland, and that the policies pursued by FF/PD are more successful than those on offer from their left-wing rivals. The figures I gave dont impact only on SF but on Labour also, as they are closely allied to the UK Labour Parties and want to introduce the same sort of socialised health service in Ireland as exists currently in the UK. The waiting-lists in Ireland are also lower than in Denmark (85,000), Holland (148,000), New Zealand (100,000) and a host of other countries. For the benefit of our FG friend they are also lower per capita than when FG were in government, although I don't want to attack FG too much as their policy isn't that different from FF/PD. Only a handful of countries in the world don't have hospital waiting-lists. Obviously, the realisation that hospital waiting-lists in Ireland are much lower than in many other countries, including many with left-wing parties in government, has shocked and upset some of the left-wing respondents here. I do apologise but you are better off in the long run facing facts. I have more good news on the FF/PD health record. Since 1999 mortality rates in Ireland have fallen faster than in any other EU country, the results of the huge increase in health service expenditure undertaken by FF/PD. So, we are all going to live longer, even you leftists. The Left are always full of bluster about what they will do to FF. You only have to recall the comments on this site in May 2002. Of course the FF vote will be down on June 11. It happens to all government parties, left or right, in all countries in mid-term. It happened in the European elections in Ireland in 1999 and in numerous bye-elections during the last Dail, remember the two Tipperary bye-elections, but come the general election of 2002 and FF/PD won easily. Blair's, Chirac's and Schroeder's parties will all be hammered on June 11 much worse than FF/PD will. But, it means nothing for the next election, still 3 years away. So, don't build your hopes up too much, or you are going to experience real disappointment.

by John McDermott - Remove Fianna Fail -and elect a monkey. Wed May 05, 2004 22:47

The Fianna Fail charade of arrogance continues in the person of Beverley Flynn who is currently rallying her troops in Mayo to resist her expulsion from the ‘Soldiers of Destiny’ She has a neck like a mullingar heifer.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!(Pee!)

Many of her supporters feel that the banks were culpable and she is blameless.

Sure the banks were culpable.Even now they are busy lending too much money to too poor young people and making their contribution to the housing price spiral,all in the name of Profit.
Who’s complaining? Not this government,not the Central Bank,…nobody.!

Beverley’s argument is like that of a ‘ hit man’ for the ‘Mafia’ getting caught with a smoking gun after an assassination- and pleading innocent because she said her boss(Al Capone) told her to do it! -And she was only doing her job.!!
The fact that she and her family were elected to represent the decent people of this island,in Europe and in the Dail,- as well as the all- too- numerous ,off-shore bank account holders,in Mayo and elsewhere, -is another story.!
When ‘The Soldiers’ditch Bertie and make Beverley the new ‘Boss of Bosses’in Leinster House ,we will have honest clarification of the realities of the present in-fighting among our home grown ‘Mafia’ .Beverley is the gang moll for me! Anytime!
Beverley eh..can we see you in some provocative gear/underwear like packin your pistol under you garter maybe..you'r some babe..Beverley ..you have my no 1 anytime!

by Chunky Monkey Thu May 06, 2004 12:51

The situation up North is very different to the one faced by southern citizens. For one it is occupied by British troops. For another it is not allowed by the British government to increase taxes for services that need extra funding, such as the health service. It is akin to a situation where the Daddy (Brit govt.) gives its unruly child (Northern Ireland) pocketmoney for being a good child. However if we are comparing health systems why dont we compare the Irish health system with the Cuban health system! There's one political system with an outdated ideological belief structure, which is corrupt, decaying and full of politicians who lie and deceive the population in order to maintain power. And then theres the Cuban system which has the best doctor to population ratio in the world and also sends doctors to the third world for health missions.

by mcgrath Fri May 07, 2004 13:16

I wish i lived in Cuba. great doctors and hospitals. equal education system- all free as well. beautiful country which looks after the environment. its a model we should all aspire to.

p.s. the government are so cool that they dont even bother their people with the whole voting process. and those with hard hearing are sorted- no free speech! BRILLANT!

by Chunky Monkey Mon May 10, 2004 11:52

Why don't you check out the facts about the cuban voting system you pillock. There are more elections than there are here.

by Homer Mon May 10, 2004 13:33

"Why don't you check out the facts about the cuban voting system you pillock. There are more elections than there are here."

Oh, you can vote for any political party as long as it's the Communist Party.... that's hardly democracy, is it?

And let's not forget Castro's "disappearing" and forced deportation of Havana's gay population in the eighties... ooh, wait, the left-wing already has.

Not that the US embargo is a good or productive treatment of Cuba... if anything, it's kept the totalitarian regime in power for longer.

by Chunky Monkey Tue May 11, 2004 14:59

Why don't you check your facts before putting up an idiotic thread on this website. The embargo has not helped the revolution. The revolution has succeeded because it has empowered the cuban people and has proteceted them from the poverty and destitution that has plagued the rest of the third world, thanks to the west's relentless imperialist neo liberal agenda. It is not neccessary to be a member of the communist party when running in elections as for the rest of the thread i'm just going to ignore the right wing scandalous allegations.

by Homer Tue May 11, 2004 15:43

So you're telling me that Fidel Castro didn't deport homosexuals because they [in his words], "could never make good Communists"?

Are you telling me that there is free speech and nobody is ever arrested for dissenting political views in Cuba?

Forget your indoctrination for a minute and check YOUR facts. I never defended the stupid embargo on Cuba. I never drecried its excellent health service (compared to the rest of Latin America).

But no freedom of expression and the maltreatment of people because of their sexuality is not a price I agree with for such infrastructure.

by yep Tue May 11, 2004 18:34

Mexico "oh things are very bad"
Texas "oh things are very bad, sure didn't the space shuttle break up shedding all that toxic stuff and a smithereened astronaut (isreali) over it".
The saudi got back safely.
- still paying top whack for the oil?
Amazing you haven't learnt more about muslims Bertie since you supported the inclusion of Cyprus in the Union and facilitated Bush's war on Iraq which is now loads of peoples War game.
How many days left of your presidency?