Congratulations to all Orangemen

by tiocfaidh ar la. Wed Jul 14, 2004 16:14

absolute bollox. nothing but sectarian scumbags, led by the unionist paramilitaries who involved themselves in the murder of inocent catholics. THEY SHOULD BE BANNED>

by pat c Wed Jul 14, 2004 16:19

dont let yourself be wound up by this nonsense. treat it with the contempt it deserves, ignore it.

by Tiochfaidh Armagh Wed Jul 14, 2004 16:42

Rooster: are you me old mate Rooster McGuinness from Armagh? The same staunch loyalist who was took to the border in the early 70's by some of the lads for stabbing a catholic woman and was only saved from death because he cried and sobbed his wee eyes out and promised not to have anything to do with loyalist paras anymore and then went and kicked some young catholic schoolgirl between the legs as his drunken thug mates held her down on the ground?

by Gaillimhed Wed Jul 14, 2004 16:46

Tis neither bollocks nor sectarian crap (well maybe a bit of the latter) But what it is - is the view from the other side of the fence, just try it for once, just for five minutes, close your eyes and pretend (really hard) that you are a Northern Ireland Protestant (and proud of it) and try and see the whole damnable situation from another point of view, then re-read the above - and hey presto! Its amazing how much you can learn about yourself and your beliefs when you take someone elses vantage point.
Problem here is that a lot of people tend to imagine that their own point of view is the only valid point of view.
everyones wrong but me.

by brenners Wed Jul 14, 2004 17:52

I think you show an amazing Naivety when it comes to this issue. Your argument that one can simply close your eyes and imagine that you are protestant and suddenly you will understand these parades indicates not only have you never been in an area where one of these go by you are obviously not from the 6 counties.
What happens the morning of one of these parades, the army arrive in there hundreds, the police arrive and block of all the side streets, people are unable to get to work or go about there daily business. All this happens so as a parade that is totally unwanted by the residents can be forced through the area for about ten minutes.
I ask a question, can you close your eyes and justify in your mind why the Sinn Fein Easter parade from the Ardoyne should cross across the Shankill. Its just not that easy, or simplistic.
I have fundamental problems with the orange order, they are a sectarian organization. However, were they to parade only in areas where the residents consented there would be no problem.
So Gaillimhed why do they choose to parade in areas that they are not wanted. Why do they bring about the massive inconvenience that exists to the nationalist residents? The reason is quite simple; they do it, as a means of asserting there believe that Northern Ireland is a protestant state for a protestant people, they do it quite simply as a means of provoking the nationalist community.
I can readily close my eyes and accept the end to all sectarianism, I can readily accept the end to Sinn Fein marches and Orange order parades, but will not accept their continuance.

by merrovinginvanjan Wed Jul 14, 2004 17:55

The Battle of the Boyne was our gig. We supplied the cannon, the horse, the amunition, the kings (two), the colours, the ships.
And we not only lost the gig, King James. we won it as well, King William and that's the secret of merrovinginvanjanism.

I very much doubt your ancestors did anything more useful than carry a bit of straw to feed the horses. So why is it you dissenting planter nobodies still claim it was your day out?

I think it is high time, that in the interest of cultural progress, the peoples of Ireland seriously consider changing the name of Brugh na Boine and all surrounding areas.

Ha! we'll change the Boyne's name. It's "our river". We'll change Aughrim as well. Because It's our town. After 203 years of union what do you have?

by sf'er Wed Jul 14, 2004 17:59

Rooster/USI eh?

by kokomero Wed Jul 14, 2004 22:26

wee Geoffrey was hilarious lecturing to Republicans about living in the past while wearing his sash and celebrating a victory won 314 years ago by foreign mercenaries against an English king.

You should grow up get a life and stop parading round in your ridiculous garb!

by technically catholicke - "catholicke and apostolicke church of ireland" Wed Jul 14, 2004 23:17

You invented the work ethic.
Your most powerful voice is Condoleenze Rice.
& I love uploading this picture of your Togo lodge every year.

¿ why can't you just realise that it's over. Catholickism has won. We've got the best pop songs. we've had the cover of time with the Mammy Teresa and the Pope. You've lost.

by GreenPartyMike - green party USA Thu Jul 15, 2004 00:06

gaillmhed,
Interesting response on the need to "understand' the perspective of a loyalist, bigoted thug. lets take that a step further shall we? Why here in America we should consider the perspective of a grand wizard of the KKK or of one of the skinhead racist thugs. Now while we ponder our navels (and stand idly by) and understand where these racist thugs are "coming from' it may be true that blacks in America or "taigs" in the north may continue to suffer from brutality but hey, thats the price they must pay for our "tolerance" A tolerance that is quite easy to accept from the safety of Dundrum, Rathfarnham, Blackrock or whatever nice, safe middle-class place we reside in eh?
Have you ever had a friend tortured and murdered by these thugs? Well I have, including some who had the delightful practice of being held down and having UVF carved on them with stanley knives.

One person in particular comes to mind. Felix Hughes in 72. Felix was a father of 4 who was caught by a group of these "misunderstood" souls in Portadown. After cutting off his testicles, ripping barbed wire thru his mouth, stuffing testicles into mouth, gouging out his eyes, he was hung from the Bann Bridge in downtown Portadown. Then these poor wee misunderstood creatures then put his body, still apparently alive in the river, covering it with a mattress and weighing it down with stones. I am not making this up.

All of this very reminiscent of America in the deep south in the 60's. However while there were Americans who did freedom rides, putting their lives on the line for African Americans, some even dying for the "cause" lets compare it to what folks in the Free State did. Ummm sit idly by? Set up pathetic 'field hospitals on the border? Go to a Bone-head U2 Concert?

Yeah, thats about it. tolerance looks more like appeasement from this side of the stanley knife. let me tell ya.

by chris bond Thu Jul 15, 2004 03:47

I am an irish protestant who is opposed to secterian organisations such as the orange order.They celebrate the victory of king william at the battle of the boyne in 1690 which ushered an era of persecution of catholics.They are no better than the KKK.They are anti european in the sense that they are afraid the uk will loose its state institutions based on the protestant faith and be forced into secular ones.

by Chief Inspector Derek bulldog bullroot Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:44

Continuity RUC, we haven't gone away you know.

Let me explain as impartial trained militarised authortarian servants of HM, our decision to ignore the Parades commissions rulings, and allow Orangemen to break the Queens law in certain parts of ulster.

As you are well aware it is the 12th holidays, many catholics and republicans are away on holiday/have fled the country, so logistically the RUC have to weigh up the situation, and the threats from loyalists block roads and potential to create havoc, civil unrest etc, and took a decision based on which community had the potential to create the most havoc and civil unrest. Most of the republican community are away on holiday, so that left us with mainly the loyalist community to deal with.

Many of our new RUC sorry PSNI recruits are simple english patriots from the mainland, who see patriotic union jack waving orangemen as our allies, they would be disheartened and confused to have to beat patriotic union jack waving people, and have been trained mainly to beat unpatriotic troublesome citizens.So it makes better sense to them to beat unruly republican upstarts instead.

by William McGrath our beloved brethren Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:52

Furthermore I'd like to congratulate many respectable upstanding law abiding pillar of society Orangemen, many of whom are respectable buisness men and valuable civic minded capitalist contributers, people such as the kincora sex beast Orange lodge master William McGrath.

Let us remember the 12th is our time of year to dress up in militarised authortarian uniforms and parade about the place pompously, because for the rest of the year many of us are just fat perverted hypocritical capitalist bastards, similar to William McGrath.

by Gerry the Gerbil - Pesky Rodents Thu Jul 15, 2004 14:54 gerry.gerbil at hushmail dot com

The naive 'I can see both sides of the argument' view common amongst liberals really doesn't apply to Unionist marches. Unionism is integrated into, hell it is, the NI power structure. Orangemen marching aren't just a bunch of Morris dancers 'celebrating their culture', they're the militant vanguard of the dominant power in the land, and are making damn sure those uppity Taigs know it. That's why they're protected by the cops and the army who arrive, as Brenners points out, mob-handed to clear their way. Can you imagine a Republican parade being given an armed escort to march down the Shankill? I don't think so!

It's not a case of just seeing the other point of view, it's a case of understanding the very serious power imbalance in the Six Counties (or Ulster, or NI, whatever you want to call it), and of understanding Unionist parades for what they are - shows of power designed to intimidate Republicans and Catholics.

Orangemen parading through Republican areas is the same as nazis parading through Asian districts - the parades have the same purpose and effect. And of course it's not uncoincidental that many Unionist organisations have organic links with nazi organisations on the UK mainland....

Gerry

by Darkley churchgoer Thu Jul 15, 2004 14:56

All Republicans, Nationalist and Catholics are wonderful people who wouldn't harm a fly.

by meself Thu Jul 15, 2004 16:44

They must have hurt an orange fly at some stage, otherwise why would the Dublin & Monaghan Bombings hace taken place?

by Harriet Fri Jul 16, 2004 03:07

Most unionists are fairly decent people, just like most nationalists.

The Orange Order however, is the KKK.

by Gaillimhed Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:36

seems like preaching a little empathy and self examination seem s to have gotten right up a few peoples noses. must be hard to carry the burden of absolute righteousness there green party Mike. would you be that step-by-step farm mike.
Anyway mike, engage the old brain first and you'd save yourself alot of typing, . Its not the paramilitary thug's point of view im interested in, but the more regular people of northern Ireland who happen to be on the other side of the divide, to whom the posting above would make perfect sense.
Anyway Brenners, Yeah I know what you're saying, BUT
My comment was directed at the first two responses to the article, namely "absolute bollox. nothing but sectarian scumbags" and "ignore it."
Thats just the sort of attitude that perpetuates the situation we find ourselves in, and I am talking about the situatuion that the majority of normal people find themselves in, the non-extremist, non-violent silent majority, with whom we have to learn to live with.
What i would like people to try and think about is that thinking the Orangemen showed great restraint faced with the belligerence of nationalist protester does not necessarily make you a Billy Wright.

by greenpartymike - green party usa Fri Jul 16, 2004 16:37

yeah gaillimhed, the problem is, my parents from coalisland and dungannon were a couple of uppity taigs who just could not understand their place. tsk tsk propbably due to "outside agitators" eh old bean?
As for your comment about loyalist "restraint", it just shows which boot ya kick with eh? Now, is as a unionist/loyalist ya had have shown the same kind of undrstanding of the catholic/nationalist/republican perspective then you might have gained some credibility.
Instead you have chosen to slam one of those uppity niggers..oops I mean taig. I meet your kind all the time in the US. Hey I'm not a racist, why my best employee is black kinda bigot. Many whites in the US REFUSE to admit that they live in and benefit from a racist society. So it is with many in the protestant community in the north. They refuse to look upon the Orange Order for what it is. To further the American analysis, the line of the KKK here is that "we dont hate the niggers, we just have pride in our ethnic heritage.
Now there are members of the "other" community who do recognize this. I know because I have met them, even in our dear bigoted roosters Dungannon. These people I honour and have great respect for, even as we have quite strong political disagreements.
One in particular, lived in Lurgan. The fucker used to give me tea in a HUGE mug with the Union Jack on it. Out of pure badness mind you, but a gentle, respectful badness. He got his tea in a tri-colour mug of course.
what defined these conversations was not just "you have to understand our pain, our perspective" but a very real, honest attempt to acknowledge your, the other's reality.
Gaillimhed, neither you nor rooster do that. Not that I have seen, not even fucking close.

by Gaillimhed Fri Jul 16, 2004 17:25

Ah, your vicious contempt seeps through every word.
Again you read too fast, missed the point and wasted loads of typing effort, making yourself look even stupider and more unhinged than the last time. Slow down man, maybe if read a little slower you might make more sense of it.
(Incidently there is another thread on the KKK a little up the newswire, )
My reference to 'loyalist restraint' was a quote from the original posting, and in fact has very little to do with which 'boot I kick with'. Why dont you go back and read it to see what the rest if us are all talking about.
You have some neck to talk about credibility with your rabid ranting and raving about "uppity taigs, niggers and Fuckers from Lurgan". Your choice of language paints a vivid picture.
Sure Go on anyway and give us another lecture on The 'American analysis', the KKK, and the 'people like me' you meet all the time in your worldly dealings.
You presume too much -Mike from USA!

Slow down, breathe deep, count to ten.
as for me , Im off home.
Its sunny outside, why dont you go out and play?

by Rooster Mon Jul 19, 2004 01:00

It's like this
by Harriet Friday, Jul 16 2004, 2:07am

Most unionists are fairly decent people, just like most nationalists.

The Orange Order however, is the KKK.


So how do you explain the fact that most unionists are either in the orange order or spectators enjoying the parade?

by Maubere Tue Jul 20, 2004 14:49

Ok you want to celebrate your culture??

some releveant facts are needed here,

* The Battle of the Boyne gave religous freedom to Anglicans and some freedoms to Presbytarians (cant spell sorry)-it brought religous persecution for Catholics for 150 years
*The unionists have dominated the northeast ever since
*they treated the catholics/irish as second class citizens and repressed the with terrorist attacks by the RUC/UDR etc

despite their complete dominance they still want to prance around catholic areas rubbing the locals nose's in the dirt-how f*cking sad!!!

by Rooster Tue Jul 20, 2004 21:52

Amazing Orangemen (No women)
Maubere Tuesday

I think your info on the order is based on an phoblact propaganda maubere, of course there are orange women!!!!!!!!!!

by rooster Tue Jul 27, 2004 15:43

ome releveant facts are needed here,

* The Battle of the Boyne gave religous freedom to Anglicans and some freedoms to Presbytarians (cant spell sorry)-it brought religous persecution for Catholics for 150 years
*The unionists have dominated the northeast ever since
*they treated the catholics/irish as second class citizens and repressed the with terrorist attacks by the RUC/UDR etc


You have proof?

by René Marcel Sauvé - Parti Québécois Sat Jul 31, 2004 22:11 jrmsauve at sympatico dot ca 2525-A-506 Havre des Iles, Laval, Québec 450-687-5440

Orangemen arrived in Montreal by the end of the 18th Century and the beginning of the
19th. Right from the beginning, they were determined to wipe out of the surface of the earth the people of French settlers left in the St Lawrence valley after the Treaty of Paris
of february 10th, 1763, a treaty that had little to do with the battle of the Plains of Abraham on the 13th september 1759 and much more to do with diplomatic intrigues between France and England. Besides, the battle of the plains of Abraham was not the last one to be fought for the possession of Quebec and New France. On april 18th 1760, eight months after, the same spot saw another battle against the British Army, referred to as the battle of Sainte Foy, but ignored by the Orangemen who still rule Canada from coast to coast, except in Quebec.
The French army that beat the English at Sainte Foy was not from France but from the settlers. It was an army of territorial militias,
with a few French officers left and the British army suffered a humiliating defeat, just as it was defeated by our far ancesters in Hastings in 1066. This time, it was us, the Norman and Breton settlers, the British were dealing with and the first years after the Treatr of Paris were rather gentlemanly between the British and ourselves.
But the arrival of the Orangemen changed the atmosphere into hatred and open hostility, not to mention orange hypocrisy.
We, the "lousy Quebec frogs" as Orangemen keep calling us, have been at war ever since.
Only, Orangemen did not realize our machiavellian ways of doing politics, forgetting that although we are descendants of France's seafarers, we are also latins and not naïve when comes time to deal with things on a large scale.
We have survived and progressed to statehood over and against Orange hostility and hypocrisy. With the coming implosion of Canada, we shall attain statehood de jure as well as de facto.
However, I do sympathise deeply with the Irish people for having to live with a such a gang of thugs, murders and liars.

JRMS

by :-) Sat Jul 31, 2004 22:52

la solution. And to think we had missed it all these years.

allez! you're lovely people. thank you for showing us how easy it is to make friends with our orange neighbours.

by dave Mon Sep 13, 2004 01:11

But the arrival of the Orangemen changed the atmosphere into hatred and open hostility, not to mention orange hypocrisy.
We, the "lousy Quebec frogs" as Orangemen keep calling us, have been at war ever since.

THe quebec question had been answered well before the orange men arrived, and quebec will always be dependant on canadian taxes!