'Statement regarding Justin Barrett debate at UCD on 13th October 2004 by the AFA'

by Cabhog Sat Oct 16, 2004 23:16

I believe it disgraceful that a group oof unelected idiots, the AFA, beleive they have any right to decide who may or may not speak at public events.

Just like the Nazis in Weimar Germany attacking communists who sought to speak out, the AFA are trying to whip up public violence and intolerance to promote their own extreme political agendas.

by pc Sat Oct 16, 2004 23:59

barrets unelected too

by Sats Sun Oct 17, 2004 00:03

Reading this YET AGAIN is excrutiating.

You had your day in the sun, now get back under your rock before you hurt yourself.

by Sean Maguire Sun Oct 17, 2004 00:09

Was Gerry McGeough, Barrett's fellow traveler in the Irish fascist movement, there? McGeough is a regular on Wbai's Radio Free Eireann in New York City run by Republican Sinn Fein's man in NYC, John McDonagh. Should this programme be silenced too? And what is Republican Sinn Fein's connection to the Irish fascist movement?

by golda Sun Oct 17, 2004 01:26

Have any of you actually even read his book? Theres a hell of alot I hate about his politics, such as his ultra-Catholicism and narrow nationalism, but after reading his book I am of the view he is not a racist, he is just an extreme nationalist.
At no point in the book does he make reference to race superiority or other Nazi-like statements. Infact he openly speaks out against imperialism and condemns colonialism, pointing out the "atrocities of mass immigration into what is now the nations of New Zealand, Australia, The USA and Canada. This mass immigration forced the native peoples to leave their lands, and every attempt at reagaining their lands was met with brutal force."

I don't like the guys politics, but he cannot be rightfully be labelled a racist because he simply is not. The far left in Ireland will have to find another hate figure that deserves to be lambasted for being a racist, such as Áine Ni Chonaill.

I totally opposed what happened in UCD, even if he was a racist. In the end, those silly naive anarchists that embarassed the
college the other day were the real facists: in democracy we have a little thing called free speech. And these anarchists have shown that one can end up being fascist in their anti-fascist ways.

by Michael Sun Oct 17, 2004 01:48

Why not include a photo or graphic of AFA with their statement? Why Barret? For all we know this AFA group at UCD was setup by Barret to set himself up as a victim of left-wing violence. What has this faceless group ever done that's any way left-wing anyway? There's nothing lefty about disrupting a debate. Have you ever helped refugees and asylum seekers personally in some way?
Before any more airtime or news space is given over to this story, let's hear from people who know the AFA crew who did this action -- or better yet, hear it from the horse's mouth -- what they were really doing that day. Thus far they seem to have helped Barret make an event of what would have been an embarrasing show in a college debating society.

by annon Sun Oct 17, 2004 03:26

..the immigration problem as not being 'financial but biological.'

Does he not, in that book call for all 'foreigners' to be 'Irishified'?

Put two and two together.

by Codreanu Sun Oct 17, 2004 03:41

Well done Justin! The AFA have demonstrated just who the real fascists are.

Don't let them silence you with their crass, violence-backed Red ideology.

by The insider Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:22

The AFA are not some kind of lefty fascists, they are just fools. The antics in UCD done barrett more help than letting him speak would have. I'm all up for stopping Barrett, but giving him a thumping in front of everyone

And the attempt to call the Lit n Deb in galway "elites" is the completely wrong road to go down. Labelling those whom you should be trying to get on your side only weakens your support.

by non reader Sun Oct 17, 2004 13:43

For some reason it is not distributed in Ireland or Britian, or available in normal, highstreet bookshops. I took the trouble of contacting remainer and second hand booksellers who specialise in historical and Irish material and they had never carried a copy. I could find no reference to the book on the internet, and only after much effort did I establish that the only shop in the country where I live that had carried a copy was closed by court order last year and the owner imprisoned for infringement of European hate laws. It emerged that the book is only available through the websites that now cater for that type of bookseller and bookreader. Though the authorities in Europe have in the last year begun to close these sites with notable success in France.

Therefore I must rely on "hearsay" as to the contents of the book. Like those students of UCD and UCG who invited the author to speak at their debating societies and possibly like the other young people who felt moved to physically preventing the man take the podium.

Justin Barrett seems older than these students, he was registered (under his birth name) as a student in a tech. college in the midlands when these other kids were still in primary school. How have they become aware of his activities? Why hs is known to them? What has he done to "be famous"? Why did they invite an author they haven't read? I live on the continent and his "much vaunted" links make the hairs go up on the back of the neck. This is not some Edna O'brien writer of romantic fiction the Irish censor still proscribes.

In answer to only one of those above questions, it seems he has become famous not for writing a book, but rather for physically attacking abortion information activists many years ago and being a guest of honour on a fully paid holiday at a rally of the German neoNazi party, representing "Ireland".

If this book does deal with (amongst other things) the consequences of imperialism in New Zealand and the "inability of people to return to their homeland", (as suggested by another commentator) at what stage does a people gain it's "homeland"? At what historical point does a (to use a German expression) "heimat" begin? Are the indigenous peoples of New Zealand the maori to be assessed as if they had a "heimat" before the arrival of the British? Did the conquering british establish a "heimat" thereafter? Did the Irish have a "heimat" before the arrival of Strongbow? Who's "heimat" shores Lough Neagh? The very concept is ridiculous and ahistorical. Which was the "heimat" of the German people at that point in history? Was it "austria"? was it "prussia"? What is the difference now between an Irish and a Scot for this writer?

I don't want to read this book.
But-
There is never Smoke without Fire.

And this man, on whom information is remarkable scant, certainly seems to have brought smoke from both the left and right of the generation presently in third level education in Ireland. I think that this should worry all their elders in Irish society. This man wants to speak for a reason, and those who have given him voice before (FI/DNP)understood it, are they tobe welcome now in Ireland? And these other young people (afa) who want to stop him "organising", why have they been moved to such "polemic" action?

There is an uncomfortable silence in the mainstream of Irish identity building which has moved from "plugging loopholes" in citizenship laws whilst grumbling at it's less than due support of migrants to the European Union.Still there is no serious articulation of where the Irish multicultural reality wishes to go. For this is no abstract question. We are no longer debating "what will the modern world be like if Irish Catholic Ethnic Cultural Purity ends".
It happened. That world is gone. And one of it's most notable spokespeople Dana Scanlon has lost her seat, failed to win a presidential nomination but won't take the stand to speak beside Barrett.

by - Sun Oct 17, 2004 14:16

assembled to listen to Barrett in UCG in County Down homes of Indians and Turks were attacked. The incidents of racist and xenophobic attacks are anomolously high in Ireland either side of the border.

Ugur Cirak a Turkish man whose home was attacked at 03h00 Friday 16th 2004

by Tim Mon Oct 18, 2004 00:25

The AFA are following the anti-democatic example of all left wing movements from the Bolsheviks (basically a bunch of ultra leftist fanatics who overthrew a democratically elected government with disastrous consequences for world politics ever since) to Stalin,Mao,Pol Pot,Castro,North Korea,Romania, Albania etc etc and attempting tp suppress freedom of speech.
God alone knows what would happen if these people had any real power in this land.
The only "fascists" in Ireland today are the left/liberal elitists who tolerate no oppostion to their cosy "multi-cultural" world-view.
Why doesnt anyone advocate a "no platform for communists" policy given the lack of respect by all Communist Governments worldwide for the most basic of human rights ,i.e. the right to life??

by RJS Mon Oct 18, 2004 03:13

Might is right is no way to win an argument.

Bullying and intimmidation of those you disagree with is playing the Nazi game.

Although i was against the referendum, the racist rantings of the Left did not increase the NO vote (going by opinion polls) during the campaign, but alienated its own constituents (56% voted for Left candidates in Dublin, but 79% voted NO - ergo, a majority of even left-voters voted NO).

Can a level of sophistication be shown, and the working class engaged with rather than blugeoned with the threat of being called racist.

Racist artguments can be shot down easily with logic, but their purveyors can quite often be won over instead of being driven further underground. They are human too.

I'm not sure what Barret thinks, but i'd suspect that 80% of the irish population would go at least some way down his path. How do the AFA propose to take on the majority?

There's a lot of dialogue needed, not least internally on strategy. Bullying is wrong and ignorance-based, in UCD or Co. Down.

The L&H debates are conservative storms in tea-cups, especially good for would-be barristers and publicity-seekers among the student fraternity. Should it be banned because it's insipid?

Let no fascism infect the Left.

by Theo Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:20

Listen AFA if you are so frightened about Ireland turning into a fascist authortarian state and the citizens of Ireland falling under the power of Barrett and his beastie boys then surely the best way to fight him is to uphold the principals of democracy and free speech.

By NOT turning him into a marytr and gaining him publicity and sympathy!

by NOT acting as if this was an authoritarian state.

By enforcing and upholding democracy because through democracy and education about barrett and his policies are our best defence against him.

if you act like thugs and strip him of his civil liberities and persecute him for his beliefs then all you are doing is giving him leave to retaliate in kind and give him more publicity.

fight him legally!!! use the system against him,,,, DO NOT resort to violence you're only helping him!!!!

by historian Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:36

Theo you are missing the point. AFA are openly contemptuous of "bourgeois democracy" and such trivilaities as free speech. They in common with all totalitarians of the left - Stalinist, Trots, anarchists, whatever - are intent on destroying all those freedoms.

by anti-fascist red - fascists out! campaign Mon Oct 18, 2004 13:18

AFA represent a group prepared to stand up to the racist, fascist filth and slander of people like Justin Barrett. Fascists Out! Campaign (im speaking in a personal capacity) have a view of no platform for fascists. People like Justin Barrett do not have the right to perpetuate the garbage they come out with. Direct action has to be taken to defend OUR right to free speech. Does free speech entail the right to perpetuate hatred and fascist doctrines.

In Tower Hamlets in London where the BNP setup an HQ in 1993 racist attacks jumped by a huge figure, do not have the exact figure here but look up anti-fascist sites, will give you the info. Liberal twats who somehow think we should let people perpetuate hatred are some of the sam people who in economic and political crisis will look to fascist organisations as the saviour from trouble, the overwhelming majority of student bodies supported the Nazis in 1932.

Well done to AFA, no pasaran!

by AFA - Anti Fascist Action, Ireland Mon Oct 18, 2004 18:01 afa at ireland dot com

...After several days of jumping about on bulletin boards of various hues to assess the views of different people in relation to the long overdue action taken against Justin Barrett last week.

It is quite clear the silliest opinions have been expressed by posters on indymedia.ie. (and that includes the DECLARATION OF WAR!! on another site :)

We have some clown called 'Theo' preaching testily (if un-grammatically) to AFA, thus "By enforcing and upholding democracy because through democracy and education about barrett and his policies are our best defence against him."

Now I wonder what organisation it could have been who have been watching Barrett since AT LEAST 1990, documenting his opinions and actions and releasing them at times calculated to do maximum political damage to him. I wonder what group has been doing that educational work? Who could it be? Hmmm?

And, dear Theo, what was AFA doing last week, but 'enforcing democracy', the very democracy that would denied to all by fascists.

We also get the blame for Justin getting publicity. The sole person responsible for Justin squeeking all over Radio One was Joe Duffy of RTE. Complaints to him can be made to joe@rte.ie.

Other persons ramble on about not knowing what Barrett believes, but are convinced that 80% of Irish people believe it too (whatever it might be).

A small squad of loopers (or perhaps just the usual 2 Nazis) drool on about Albania, North Korea, Stalin, Pol Pot, Goofy, Daffy Duck and Neverland. Very odd, seeing as AFA has never made any comments on such matters, ever.

But the best are the "you are a disgrace for impugning the reputation of the University and the honour of the L&H" merchants. We don't care - neither does anyone else give a f*ck about your cod intellectual preening and preparation for Kings Inns/Dail Eireann (or both) when you have grown up.

Thanks to the good number of decent and sensible people who have the small amount of intelligence needed to understand, support and implement the concept of 'No Platform for Fascists' . Your messages of solidarity are appreciated.

NO PASARAN

by historian Mon Oct 18, 2004 18:14

The references to Stalin and so on are because AFA is made up of ultra leftists whose long term agenda is to establish "socialism", and we all know what that means. Death camps, same as under the Nazis.

by why dont we call it ... Mon Oct 18, 2004 19:56

and we can all mutilate each others genitals in an ethnically sensitive utopia where no expression is allowed unless you re critisising fascists from the never never times while we all burn books by the anarchocommunal gulag fires where once stood homes. Give aman enough verbal rope and he may hang himself.Insteadthe rope is tied to your own narrow minded agenda filled necks. You silly foc ers and anti free speech types are deplorable to average joe. Dont be surprised when your freedoms are taken like those you sought to take.

by a challenge to foc and afa Mon Oct 18, 2004 20:11

And if you dont you should be banned from indymedia for your pro censorship fascist views. I would like to see your right to free speech taken away (foc and afa )because in my opinion which i believe i am still allowed, you are full of shit and mock conviction, that should not be allowed either.

by jams Mon Oct 18, 2004 21:30

Hey steady on lumping anarchists into Stalinism/Trotskyism/Leninism. If you know what Anarchism is about you would know that blocking free speach is anethma to us!!! Dont forget that anachists were also victims of Lenins facist revolution and Hitlers facism too.

Real freedom and real democracy, thats all we ask for, simple as that.

As for Barrett, much as I hate his backward politics I would defend his right to mouth his crap, stopping him is just fascism, so thats what these AFA group are, so dont dare connect Anarchy to these clowns.
Are these AFA part of Socialist Worker by chance??

by Eoin Mon Oct 18, 2004 21:54 takhisis at oceanfree dot net

Dear friends, this is my first time posting to the Indymedia web site: while I find the views expressed by Barrett and his ilk to be repellent , it should be noted that he was attending a debate where people with a range of (widely) diverse viewpoints were to discuss a given issue. If we as a society take it upon ourselves to censor those with whom we disagree then we end up in a situation where we are barely any better than those we condemn. Do we have such little faith in other's intelligence that we think people are incapable of reaching an opinion on his views themselves ?. Additionally, it should be taken into account that he was in attendance as a guest and no matter how abhorrent most (decent) people may find his views that he was therefore entitled to every courtsey afforded to all other guests in attendance. While I find it difficult to muster much sympathy for the man such actions reflects poorly on those who intervened to attack him - the best defence against ignorance and hate will ALWAYS be education and rebuttal, not censorship.

by pc Mon Oct 18, 2004 22:01

suddenly everyone has an opinion

by George Mon Oct 18, 2004 22:56

It's not about speech, its about whether you allow fascists to organise. In particular when you know what they get up to when they organise. They know that (go and read their web sites), its about time all the liberals here woke up to it.

You can choose to debate them in the safety of the campus but will you be there when they attack people in the streets. Or will you be tucked un in front of the TV tut tuting the state of the world. Will your kids fight another war for their parents stupidity?

Oh and Jams is a rather obvious fascist troll seeking information. Don't feed him any.

by Spokesperson Tue Oct 19, 2004 01:32

No platform policy for TCD

Follow the link & if you are a tcd student support it. get your fellow students to sign it - 350 signatures and we can have a referendum and end the extremism prevalent in the college

by veteran Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:49

Because the structure in Trinity is different to that in any other college in Ireland, a no platform policy adopted by the SU would do nothing except perhaps bar fascist class reps from speaking at Council.

Societies in Trinity are funded by the CSC, completely independent of the SU. Even assuming a referendum like this would pass, the end effect would be zero. The most the SU could do would be to look angrily at members of societies which did invite speakers with worrying credentials.

Aside from this - are you actually in Trinity? What extremism is prevalent in the college? The closest thing to extremism in Trinity is the SWSS and Trinity Sinn Fein, or perhaps the PDs at the other end. There are two debating societies which fight like mad dogs for their right to invite who they want, but that's not extremism - that's a total commitment to the principle of free speech, which is something very different. I know of three extremists in the whole college - sorry, four. Out of fifteen thousand.

by Eoin Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:32

With all due respect I find it a little difficult to accept that it is not about speech - surely the whole of this discussion revolves around whether or not the man should have been invited/allowed to speak and that a group took it apon themselves to prevent him speaking. If that is not clearly a free speech issue then what is ?

I also slightly resent the fact that a group of people, no matter how worthy their intentions, should take it on themselves to decide for me what I should or should not hear, I am perfectly capable of deciding on the views of Mr. Barrett (or anyone else for that matter) for myself, without anyone else deciding for me.

by you re not allowed!! Tue Oct 19, 2004 14:56

This should be obvious to anyone by now. They are so sure of their own intellects and derisory to the general masses ability to decide so they will decide for you on what you can hear or what you cant. Afa and foc are worried that barret has an appealing message more so than their own so they have to try and shut him up. Ooooh you re so brave! All you have done is garentee barrett recruits for a personal bodyguard and publicity!! well done once again silly f o c ing chnts

by 30313 Tue Oct 19, 2004 15:28

Congratulations on stiffleing democracy. You just did away with that individuals freedoms of speech and democracy.
Two facets of facist ideology have been used by anti-facists.
Not only are you hypocrites, you aren't even understanding intelligent ones.
Congratulations on hurting your own cause and getting your opponents some publicity.

by AFA Member Tue Oct 19, 2004 15:36

You lot are so tedious. Yes we stopped a fascist from speaking, someone who would deny free speech to everyone else if he had his way. Look his fascist links have been proved. Run along now like good little fash trolls and L&H irrelevancies.

AFA will continue to deal with vermin like Barrett.

Btw: Homer,you are not fooling anyone by pretending you are a moderate and complaining about censorship on Indymedia. Your boastings on a certain unmentionable fash site that you were posting on indy under a false name and complaining about censorship have been noted.

by Eoin Tue Oct 19, 2004 16:19

I know who the AFA are, could someone please explain who the FOC are ?, cheers.

by MediaBureau Tue Oct 19, 2004 16:50

the Fascists Out! Campaign - active above in the fourth green field. Here is a post about an action they had a while back.

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64287&search_text=Fascists%20Out

by veteran Tue Oct 19, 2004 17:11

"AFA will continue to deal with vermin like Barrett."

Lesson to psychotic paramilitary loonball: IT'S NOT YOUR JOB.

Nobody delegated to you the responsibility of deciding who is or isn't "vermin". If Barrett, or anyone else, is breaking the law then report them. If he's not breaking the law then debate against him. Speak out against him. Denounce his words.

Don't degenerate to the language of the fist. If you want to do punishment beatings, go back to 1980s Belfast. But let people make up their own minds about things.

by AFA Member Tue Oct 19, 2004 17:16

What exactly are you a veteran of? The Salvation Army? Your whinings are irrelevant to AFA. We will continue to deal with Fash in our own manner.

Barrett is a special type of person, he wants to set up a dictatorship which will deny freedom of speech to everyone else (including the L&H). His Fash links have been proved. Therefore he is being dealt with in a special manner.

by Ruri Tue Oct 19, 2004 17:29

"we will deal with him in our own manner"

The SS live again.

Get a life you sad little frustrated man.

by AFA Member Tue Oct 19, 2004 17:33

No Ruri, we will prevent the SS from rising again. We only deny a platform to fash. The people who would taske free speech away from everyone else.

Ask the fash and racists who have met us if they think we varte sad and frustrated.

by Eoin Tue Oct 19, 2004 18:48

My last post I'm afraid, only started on Indymedia yesterday and couldn't be bothered, thought it was a portal for left wing, liberal, independent and alternative debate.

What do I get instead ? self-appointed moral guardians who dismiss all who dissent as "silly liberals", "whingers" and "fash trolls" (whatever they might be), and this is towards those who SHARE their disgust at those who would sow fear and hatred ??????

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that many people might greatly admire the AFA's aims but deplore with their methods ? Are those people not entitled to an opinion as well ?

Great to know the beacon of liberty is in such mature hands.

If that makes me a silly liberal, then so be it - I'm proud.

Bye all - it was interesting if nothing else.Off to do something more productive.

by ali la pointe - Capt White's flying Column Tue Oct 19, 2004 21:11

Barrett's active and multiple links with Italian, German, and other European movements that are expressly nazi/fascist and have former Wehrmacht members are well documented. His politics do not represent a mere flirtation with ultraconservatism or nationalism. He knows what he is doing even if his actions are contradictory (such as his connection to Ulster Loyalism via his Italian Fascist links, in spite of his desire to "cleanse" ireland of protestants.).

The decision to silence a fascist and deny them the opportunity to organise politically and incite people to violence should not be taken lightly. AFA were right to move on this hate-filled rat. I can remember feeling quite frustrated that not enough was being done to expose him and stamp out his ability to organise. AFA's agenda is not to impose their "socialism" or anything else on anyone. It is to keep political spaces in working class communities free from the kind of festering hatred that makes people turn on their sisters and brothers instead oif working together for an alternative. You can throw the type of clichés around that elites bleet on about but seldom practise as much as you like, but it won't stop the rot. Well Done AFA!

the consequences of allowing fascism to take root outweigh the consequences of denying free speech to people peddling hate and inciting violence.

by I read your words Tue Oct 19, 2004 22:11

YOU are the only ones espousing organised violence. YOU are the ones denying someone their human rights, And no I dont accept your request to vet politicians for me I along with many others who have brains and are not afraid to use them. Will you state why you are so special you can censor who you like on a self imposed basis andwhat your credentials were upon aqquiring the position of public protectors. Answer now or i request you dont post your self congratulatory posts about your own fascist victories over a racist.

by Dunbashin' Wed Oct 20, 2004 00:35

For those saying that denying a platform for fascists like Barrett is undemocratic, can they let us know when we are allowed?

I mean, I'm sure if they come to power, we are allowed violently oppose them? But would you allow us do it on the eve of elections where they may come to power? Or when they were likely to get their first TD? Or their first councillor?

I mean, I presume you don't think it only becomes acceptable when they have taken power? Or were those who opposed the Nazis physically the real fascists?

by ali la pointe - Capt White's flying Column Wed Oct 20, 2004 01:23

And Fascism /Nazism doesn't espouse violence? ? Have you seen what's been going-on in the Village in Belfast, east belfast, in North Belfast, in Ballymena, In Bushmills, Coleraine, Craigavon, Dungannon, Derry .....

Have you ever read history ?

by Historian Wed Oct 20, 2004 01:42

The greatest killer through state repression were government's whose public ideology was communisit based, not fascist based.

If we are serious about opposing those who would deny others free speech, do not just ban Barrett because of his supposed Nazi links, ban the parties of the left who espoused a 'communist' or extreme left odeology. Just as Nazi Germany provides a template to view Barrett's actions, North Korea and the Khmer Rogues' Cambodia provide the template to view the actions of the SWP, CI and other extreme left wing groups

by Linton Wed Oct 20, 2004 02:10

All of this talk about freedom of speech misses the point. As soon as somebody decides to be a fascist activist they have declared war on the rest of humanity. They start with the weak and make their way up. They use violence alone to advance. Persuasion is irrelevant as their ideas are ridiculous. People join them so that they can feel strong. They are just bullies on a grand scale. If you don't want to live in a world organised according to the principle of brute force then you have to take them on at some point. That is how it is with bullies. If you never stand up to them, they keep on beating you. The longer you wait, the harder it is. If they gain state power you are either part of them or dead and you can't do anything. You want to stand up to them before they are strong. Of course, if you are privileged you won't notice them until very late in the game. They start with the weak - the immigrants, leftists, gays, disabled and freaks. But I don't have that privilege. I know that I am high on their list. I know that if they are allowed any oxygen, I'm the first to go. So, I'll attack them whenever I have the chance. To the people who were brave enough to stand up to these bullies, I salute you. To the people who invited these people to speak, shame on you. You share responsibilty for the next time that one of these thugs attacks my brother.

by dubliner Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:19

What is AFA's view on the current situation whereby non-national drug dealers are now openly co-operating with Dublin gangs in supplying crack cocaine in the view of the gang's threat to working class communities and community organisations.

by MG Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:30

oooh Dubliner, difficult question there indeed. Non-national crack dealing gangs, obviously great, sure of course they must supported. You clown.

Can I enquire as to your record in opposing them nice white Irish smack dealers over the years? Or am I right in suspecting your interest is only awakened when you can fit 'non-nationals' into the equation?

Would you care to comment at all on the long standing and well known links between Irish fascists and drug dealers?

by dubliner Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:51

Touched a sore spot did we? As usual every time anyone points to a glaring inconsistency on the part of our heroes, they respond by saying "Well what have you ever done?"

On question of "white" smack dealers (white, black, brown, they are all scum to me), have quite a few dealings with them actually. As for their fascism, they may not patronise National Socialist bands, but they play the same role as fascist gangs in attacking working class communities and indeed activists. Unlike Justin Barrett, however, they do tend to hit back so our hero's reluctance to "engage" them is understandable, despite the bullshit they feed their friends in London about their role as the great defenders of the proletariat.

by MG Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:13

I admit I was coming at it from the wrong angle, thought you were a little fascist with your 'non-national' gibes. But I know who you are now - quite transparent aren't you 'Fingallian'. Does the party pay you to spend all day on Indymedia and politics.ie (and other less salubrious sites of a far right persusasion) bad jacketing genuine activists for no discernable reason? Or maybe you are just mad. Anyhow, some of us have to work, so bye for now.

by Real Dubliner Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:19

AFA is a single issue campaign. It has no interest in involving itself as an organisation in any other issues. You might as well ask why the IAWM dont get involved in fighting pushers. I dont reckon you are really serious about this, otherwise you would not have raised the red herring of non national dealers. Theres always been plenty of native Irish pushers.

However I am sure that dubliner is well aware that individual AFA members are involved in many other campaigns. Some AFA members have been in the forefront of taking on pushers.

by i dont like unelected sensors Wed Oct 20, 2004 18:37

1. You espouse violence / this is obvious from your posts yet if others took to violence to force what they thought you would condemn them. ie football hooligansetc 2. Barrett has never made any illegal threats to anyone as far as i know and you afa blah blah have . You decided to not lethim even break the law with his mouth. You are the idiots. 3.If there were no fascists to be fought im sure you would find more ie meateaters , foxhunters non metrosexuals, etc 4.Youll have to fight a lot of the society you think you are the moral cream of for your narrow agenda in the future.

by AFA Member Wed Oct 20, 2004 18:41

But your opinions are a source of amusement to us. On a dull evening the chuckles you provide are always welcome. Anyway I'm sure you feel better now that you've got that off your chest.

by Shamo Wed Oct 20, 2004 23:10

Dubliner, living in Finglas and working for Harry you would know a lot more about drug dealers than most people, wouldn't you. Maybe even intimately?

by RJS - another person Thu Oct 21, 2004 08:06

Like Barrett, 80% would have voted YES, for a variety of reasons, so without knkowing the details, a majority of the population have something in common with his views on the referendum anyway.

Point is, the Left/NO, did not engage and should look at strategy, rather than preaching to the converted all the time.

Not being that articulate, i'd see why you might wish to use the fist, but this might be counter-productive.

If your pomposity and insults are borne of frustration, i have no remedies, but perhaps, try not to take yourself so seriously.

If you are as arrogant as your posts suggest, you belong on the other end of the political spectrum.

But i've fallen for it - recently, i heard someone say on mass media: never argue with an 'idiot', because they'll drag you down to their level, but they'll beat you with their experience.

The rigour of your logic and the bonifides of your humaneness are belied by your wanton abuse of anything with a whiff of criticism.

Can i join?

by fhu Thu Oct 21, 2004 08:44

Linton the only reason that anyone could entertain an idea that Ireland is heading toward a Fascist regime is if they want to. i.e. use the existence of a non-entity like Barrett as a pretext and justification for one’s own excesses like those at UCD.

The growth of something akin to support extreme right is in direct correlation to the blatant widespread abuse and exploitation of the asylum system.
Too many on the extreme left are aggressively intimidating those who publicly advocate controls .The Mass-media is stifling and misrepresenting the issues, often in a dishonest and manipulative way.

People feel frustrated at the lack of action and honest debate on this issue. Barrett can see this and tries to exploit it.

The radicals like AFA and their ilk are declaring war on their own people by their yobbish behaviour and their notions of their own self-appointed intellectual superiority and sooner or later they’re going to see the consequences of those actions.

The best way to control the right is to control asylum abuse that way you starve both nuisance extremes of their raison d’etre.

by curious Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:45

AFA are quite clearly an extremist organisation comprised of malcontents (if not something more sinister than that). As others have said, they and the "fash" have a curious symbiotic relationship in which they force the 99% of the population who are not even aware of them to pay attention by the sort of stunts they pulled in UCD.

On another point, as the above post says, the best way to confront the genuine misgivings of the majority and to take the ground away from those who would use immigration as a basis for an extreme right, is to have sensible immigration policy. For example, Morning Ireland had a story this morning about the number of minors who arrive here then disappear. Where do they go? It is well known that some at least end up being used in the sex industry and there was a young chap charged last week with crack cocaine dealing who had disappeared in the same way.

The solution to this is to tighten up on the entry requirements. Process applications quickly; allow applicants to work then get rid of those who do not meet the requirements. Anyone here who is not working or seeking work or engaged in crime should be deported.

by Bored now Thu Oct 21, 2004 15:34

It is not about 'immigration' or 'controls' or indeed 'Free Speech', it is about PREVENTING FASCISTS FROM ORGANISING.

Thank You.

by Ghi Thu Oct 21, 2004 16:41

You are very naive if you believe that!

So why do so many of these "anti-fascists" also shout down the people because they voted 'yes' in that referendum?

Why the ICP is decried when there is not a shred evidence of any fascist leanings?

Why are the likes of RAR and other groups which have avowed multiculturalist agendas out to suppress legitimate debate?

The tactics employed in UCD were designed to intimidate anyone who dares to raise their head above the parapet on the asylum/ immigration issue.

by Eoin Sat Oct 23, 2004 13:50

I know I said before I wouldn't be posting again but couldn't help myself . . .

"A crime is the violation of the right(s) of other men by force (or fraud). It is only the initiation of physical force against others- i.e., the recourse to violence- that can be classified as a crime in a free society (as distinguished from a civil wrong). Ideas, in a free society, are not a crime- and neither can they serve as the justification of a crime. " - Ayn Rand, Novelist & Philosopher (1905-1982).

Some people will never learn. . .

by stephen Sun Oct 24, 2004 19:49

Fascists wish to deny certain groups freedom of speech.

Because of this AFA wish to deny fascists freedom of speech
Nobody has ever really explained this logic to me.

Can I now deny AFA freedom of speech because they want to deny others that same right?

by GHi Sun Oct 24, 2004 20:42

If one thing is obvious from all the threads covering the 'UCD incident' it is not only the unpopularity of the AFA tactics but the unpopularity of the AFA themselves on the right, left and centre..... take a hint chaps!

by AFA Member Tue Oct 26, 2004 16:41

Just because a bunch of fash & rightwingers repeat the same mantra under different identities doesnt mean we are unpopular on the left. The SP, SWP, WSM, Organise all call for No Platform for fash. As do many members of Labour, SF, Greens, WP.

As for our fash friend in disguise...

If you want to deny AFA a platform then why dont you try it on?

by historian Tue Oct 26, 2004 16:59

More macho shite. Do AFA actually have meetings at which people could "try it on"? Then again you wouldn't want the "fash" and the pigs to know who you are. LMFAO (especially at last bit!)

by AFA Member Tue Oct 26, 2004 17:06

A lot of the fash know who we are! They avoid us like the plague! They have even been known to jump into a canal to avoid AFA. No, we certainly are not going to set ourselves up for the Cops. Do you think we are as dumb as the fash? Anyway if you want to deny us a platform, why dont you physically defend the rights of the fash to speak?

by historian Tue Oct 26, 2004 17:37

I reckon this is all a fantasy. I don't beleive that there are organised fascists in Dublin and I don't beleive that there is some secret war between then and "anti-fascists". There.

by Bob Tue Oct 26, 2004 17:39

Nice one lads - good to see someone's taking responsibility and dealing with fascists, i just wish we had more like you over here.

If all of those who have criticised you spent their time activily combating fascism in one way or another there would be no need for your, "more extremer" actions.

Keep up the good work, some of us appreciate it.

by I only do it to annoy.... Tue Oct 26, 2004 18:11

Just to provoke the wee fash a bit more, here is how your racial comrades in the Antipodes spent the weekend.

++++++++

AFA Update: 26th October 2004

Nazis beaten off streets in New Zealand

Nazis lose badly in Wellington
http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/22257/index.php

NF run out of town
http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/22489/index.php

Fairies Fighting Fascists
http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/22464/index.php

If people have the correct software a video of the clashes can be viewed here
http://xtramsn.co.nz/musicandvideo/0,,6082-3800397-300,00.html

And a succinct statement off New Zealand Indymedia

"Isn't it funny how the nazi supporters and the liberals are agreeing on how awful it is to use force against fascism?

Kyle 'Fatfuck' Chapman (NF leader) was all over the TV saying how working class he was and how working class NZers are quite prepared to use violence to defend themselves, and a few minutes later we did. Working class white kids joined working class brown and yellow kids and kicked nazi butt. And no one is complaining except liberals and fascists.

Both groups despise the working class, for different reasons. Fascists seek to divide the working class and smash working class organisations so they can build an authoritarian state. Liberals hate working class people 'cos we are supposedly too thick to think for ourselves and we aren't refined and polite like them.

Well we can think for ourselves and we think the best way to fight fascism is to drive the bastards off our streets. We don't oppose them just because they are violent, we oppose fascism because fascists seek to divide the working class and promote bigotry and authoritarianism. We want freedom and democracy, and that means standing up to the fascists, not politely asking the politicians and the cops to do it for us. The state, the cops and the politicians are part of the problem, so fuck them, lets do it ourselves.
Mr G"

by Eoin Wed Oct 27, 2004 02:11

You couldn't make this stuff up, you can't even parody it - where would you begin ???

Forget fascists: Liberals. . . . the NEW MENACE (drumroll) is there one lurking in YOUR home ? Speaking at YOUR university ?

No platform for them either then . . .

by Ghi Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:15

"I reckon this is all a fantasy. I don't beleive that there are organised fascists in Dublin and I don't beleive that there is some secret war between then and "anti-fascists". There”


Here, here. There isn’t a snowball’s chance of a mature electorate voting in Fascism( any more than the SWP, SP or any other silly crackpots).
Really the only thing the likes of the AFA cowards are fighting a deep-seated sense of their own irrelevance.

by Amused Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:19

"There isn’t a snowball’s chance of a mature electorate voting in Fascism( any more than the SWP, SP or any other silly crackpots)."

I think you will find that the SP have been voted in by a mature electorate in several areas.

by - Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:33

the order of victims - Chinese, Africans, Gays, Asians and disabled.

Oh yes, Belfast isn't the same as Dublin. They're different. Of course. Only erps and sovreign comitee members and shinners think they're in any way related. Oh and all the people who wonder why a small island of less than 5million people is divided in two states.
So you mightn't be voting in racists yet, but in European terms, you're mostly turning a blind eye to race attacks.

by ghi Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:41

Before you overindulge in that peculiarly radical left sort of smugness perhaps I sholuld clarify what I meant by saying voting en masse for the above mentioned.

There're irrelevent when it comes to REAL power - e.g bin charges are forever- and no bad thing either ! ( but there're still more relevent than Barrett).

by ghi Wed Oct 27, 2004 13:26

“Oh yes, Belfast isn't the same as Dublin. They're different. Of course. Only erps and sovreign comitee members and shinners think they're in any way related.”

Yes correct!

Post- peace process NI IS significantly different from anywhere else in Ireland, the UK or for that matter, Europe, (even pre-Troubles NI was.)
many shinners et AL privately think so too.


“you mightn't be voting in racists yet, but in European terms, you're mostly turning a blind eye to race attacks”

So “our fascism” is based on the fact that we are guilty of ‘allowing’ thugs in another jurisdiction ( who may hate us as much as their ‘race attack’ victims) indulge in violence?

What contrived twaddle!


You’ll really have to do better than that if want to guilt trip the Irish into your half-baked reasoning!

by BloodonStalin'shands Wed Oct 27, 2004 21:18

“Much rather be called a fascists by idiots then allow the spread of mass murder”

So typical of the misguided support these “heroes” get .
When it comes to mass murder and acts of inhumanity, I think you also should check out the history of the left.
The main difference is they usually commit their atrocities in the name of some noble-sounding cause and in many cases believe in their own righteousness at the time .

The truly vigilant must be Janus-faced watching and condemning the excesses of both extremes.

P.S learn the humility to realise that not everyone who disagrees with you has to be an 'idiot'. In fact maybe the reason they disagree is because they're NOT!

by BARRY Thu Oct 28, 2004 00:06

If you really, and I mean REALLY, want to slap Justin Barrett that badly why not do it like a man and ask him into the car-park one on one. At least that way he won't get any publicity. Let's face it the little twerp is'nt exactly Harry bleedin' Molloy.
As for these boyos who have declared their intent as revolutionaries to prevent facists having a public platform, all well and good but at least be consistent. The next time I see you storm the stage at a UVF/LVF/UDA political meeting you will have my undying support and confidence ( i hope you are'nt partitionist in outlook or anything so bourgouis as that).
The fact is that facist neo-Nazi groups like these have been slaughtering Irish people for years with full scale state support and armaments. Now thay have turned their attention onto immigrants. Have these groups any plans to deal with those tramps??
Or is it just a wee bollocks like JB who quite honestly is probably just attention seeking or frustrated because he can't get the ride or something. I reckon if a nice big African or Albanian lassie took him aside for an hour or 2 you wouldn't hear another peep out of him. If you oppose facism go for the real dangerous ones for God's sake , not a wee eejit like him.

by Samuel Benson Thu Oct 28, 2004 02:46

As much as I hate fascism/racism or any other negative "ism", it is a sad day for politics when AFA deny freedom of speech to any individual.

AFA has lowered itself again

Sam

by historian Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:34

You have summed it up well. But don't hold your breath for them taking on the loyalists.

by Afraid of Mags Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:11

What I find insufferable is the sneering way these people talk about the ARC in Belfast where you have to confront the scariest rightists in Europe. In fact you can't confront them, they'd kill you without thinking about it twice.

The ARC are pissing into the wind but at least they aren't delusional. Fascists Out are fairly brave as well, but AFA is stupid (reading websites and all that shite).

The Real Fascists down here are the Real IRA.

by typical european union citizen. - (one of 445,000,000 non irish people) Thu Oct 28, 2004 13:14

- Ireland.
Q2 - Which part? northern or southern.
a2- your choice.
Q3- It's not a very big place is it?
a3- no.
Q4 It's very contrived isn't it?
a4 yes.

If you really think Belfast and Dublin are so _terribly different_ and Irish people change so much in less than 150 km distance, then my friend you've probably never left your little country for any significant length of time. Which is very very sad. Now I haven't left any other "twaddle" comments here. Ireland as an island and geographical area has the most hate attacks in the EU. Ireland as a small demographic area of two states and less than 6 million people has the most hate attacks in the EU.
Ireland with only 6 million people administered as two states is as contrived as you can get.

by statistician Thu Oct 28, 2004 13:28

Really? Where do you get the statistics for that? And what do you mean by "hate crimes"?

by Ghi Thu Oct 28, 2004 13:44

"you've probably never left your little country for any significant length of time. Which is very very sad."


The really sad thing is the display of ignorance of the subject you are trying to discuss.

You’re a fine example of the dangers of intellectual mediocrity and a few poorly researched and out-of-context statistics and random facts.

"I haven't left any other "twaddle" comments here"

No it is worst than twaddle it’s insulting

Your type of anti-Irish racism is one of the most finely-polished I’ve encountered on my travels.

Yet it is blatant .If you want to insult whole Peoples there are better sites than this to do it on.

your username is an insult to the typical European union citizen .

by AFA Member Thu Oct 28, 2004 16:04

The silly rantings of the fash in disguise, the rightwingers & the L& H set have brightened up an otherwise dull day. Thanks for providing us with much needed laughs.

AFA will of course totally ignore your whingings and continue to do what we do best. You are of course free to form a protection corps for Barrett.

Missing you already.

by curious Thu Oct 28, 2004 16:42

Why doesn't AFA take on the loyalists who are the only real active fascists we have in this country?

by ghi Thu Oct 28, 2004 18:32

at least that foreign poster had an excuse for their ignorance of the Irish situtaion( sort of) and an antipathy based on sense of their own inferiority and a jealously of Irish culture but anyone for here who could side with them can only be regarded as a complete Quisling .

by barry Thu Oct 28, 2004 19:30

In reply to afraid of Mags Id just like to point out that ordinary Irish people have been confronting loyalist facism for generations. Yes , many of them have been killed. Thats what real facists do to people. If Frank Ryan, Che Guevara or Eva Luxembourg hd not stood up for what they believed even under pain of death then facism would have swept the world.
These groups have clearly stated they reserve the right to use physical force against facism. Are you claiming its only physical force against wee gobsheen psuedo facists thtat cant hit you back.?
As for the Real IRA being what you sneeringly refer to as Real Facists either you are being deliberately daft or you are simply an ignoramus . Can you back this point up ("you cant stand up to loyalist facists because theyd kill you and they're scary..... roll on the revolution ye boy ye )

by Bloodonstalin'shands Thu Oct 28, 2004 19:35

Firstly let me say that I sympathise with you and share your anger at this incident.
I hope others will now note of how these ‘Anti-Fascist’ and “anti-Racists’ are a nasty, undemocratic and ultimately stupid breed.

They are heading for their comeuppance sooner or later- never fear (play with fire and all that..) but this shows that there is no room for ambivalence in dealing or tolerating criminal and unconstitutional behaviour.

No man is an island and when they attack and threaten ONE they attack and threaten ALL.

Best wishes ' Homer'

by barry Thu Oct 28, 2004 20:38

If physically confronting lovalist nazis on their own turf is beyond these groups capabilities, why not at least protest and heckle them when the free-state brings them to Dublin and Aras an Uachtaran in an attempt to make their sectarian bile sound reasonable to Irish citizens.

Does the fact that the Presidents husband recently played a round of golf with the military commander of an extreme right wing death squad whose scumbags are attacking immigrants on a near nightly basis not scare you more than Justin bloody Barret ?

The next time Bertie and co bring a sectarian racist cum drug-dealer to Leinster House for a wee chat and a photo-call why not get down there and expose him for what he is. You might gain a bit of much-needed credibility.

by tather Thu Oct 28, 2004 22:46

don't the UVF/PUP regard themselves as leftist loyalists? so maybe if they ever visit there a right- wing bunch of louthmouth thugs could protest against them in a suitably robust fashion –if you pardon the first syllable of that last word…oh you’re so kind comrade bullies.

by Barry Fri Oct 29, 2004 01:10

Sorry tather, what an extremely embarrassing faux-pas on my behalf. I have just now discovered that the reason the UVF has been targetting the Chinese community in South Belfast is because they have refused to follow Maoist principles and are therefore traitors to the Cultural Revolution. That and the fact that their minimum wage policy in their restaurants has resulted in UVF heartlands becoming an economic blackspot.

I am also now aware that their extensive drug-dealing operation in the Monkstown area is in fact an attempt to create a new class conciousness outside the confines of the petty-bourgeouis strait-jacket the working classes conventional lifestyles have confined them to. All profits are obviously redistributed to the masses.

Furthermore it is now obvious that the reasons why the Shankill Butchers, The Jackal etc. slaughtered hundreds of innocent Catholics was in direct retaliation for the Vaticans refusal to condemn right wing regimes in central America. As we all know the reason why Billy Hutchinson shot an unarmed bus driver dead was because he was disobeying an order from the UVF to go on strike. Can't get more left wing than that.

by tather Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:53

Terrible isn’t it, I mean why didn’t they learn those republican bombs and bullets that only killed and mutilated the despicable capital- owning classes while leaving the proles of every creed and colour to look forward to their one Government ,unified workers’ paradise.

Who could take their leftist credientials seriously ,after that?

by rosa Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54

who the fuck is 'eva luxemburg'
eejit.
u mean braun??!!!!!

by correction Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:00

He obviously meant Rosa Luxembourg. And certainly not Eva Braun. Don't you know anything
Eejit

by TomKat Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:10

Not only did you wipe the floor with that shitbag Barret but you have seriously suceeded in winding up every right wing, neo-liberal anal-retentive in this forum.

I suppose all flabby arsed whingers are going to take on loyalists themselves while whinging about AFA "cowards" (On that score check your facts scum, plenty of loyalists have been on the receiving end of kickings by AFA). Their calibre can be summed up by ratboy "Homers" shrieking, probably fabricated, whinge about being intimidated by anti-facists (In cyper-space for fu*ks sake -doesn't take much to put the wind up these neo-fash liberals).

PS punk gig I was at in Dublin last week had an AFA stall and by the time I went for browse they had sold out of everything, very unpopular obviously these anti-facists.

by historian Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:47

When did AFA take on loyalists? I do recall once hearing some halfwit from Dublin boasting about him and his mates MUGGING a 14 year old loyalist bandsman at a banklink. Is that what you mean?

It was the IRA who took on the loyalists and the IRA had/have contempt for Irish AFA - as opposed to AFA in Britain which is worthy of some respect.

by AFA head Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:55

Get Fuc*ed if you think you're getting any inside info from us you bitter old forlelock tugger.

"AFA in Britain which is worthy of some respect."

-For a provo cheerleader you are displaying colonial inferiority syndrome worthy of any loyalist.

by historian Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:08

Oh I know what I'm talking about "comrade". Had to listen to idiots like you sneaking around the Holloway High Road making up stories about taking on the "fash" in Dublin. You were a great source of amusement to the real anti fascists there before they dumped you as a security risk and a joke.

by anonn Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:15

nice to see the AFA getting accross the 'Anti-Hate' message then.....and TK if your so confident of your popularity then why not stand for election next time?

by AFA Head Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:26

Ah so that's you game "historian" banging on about some obscure pub-talk you heard in London years ago. Still can't let go of the link to the "mother" country eh? I'll give you a hint:
Ireland =IRISH AFA ,
"Britain" (England, Scotland/ Wales)= BRITISH AFA Try not to confuse the two so much in future, theres a good whinger.

On another matter think up a more original pen name than "anon" when you're trolling in fluffy mode, it's a tad lazy.

by historian Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:35

Anon is a different person. I had just nipped out to have some cucumber sandwiches with my handler from "5". But sure you probably know him yourself???? Eh?, Eh?

by Boss - the Bosses Fri Oct 29, 2004 18:23 boss at boss dot com

Barrett and his looney friends at UCD are a bunch of overweening attention-seekers/. The AFA should know better than to engage at all with such imbeciles. Please note also that a 'No Platform' stance amounts to fascism. in it s own right/. My message to AFA and Barrett; is ; PFO. Some of you involved might have the intelligence to work out what that acronym stands for, but I'm not overly optimistic.

by Barry Fri Oct 29, 2004 19:25

If I was Justin Barret and I was reading some of the contributions on this site I would literally be wee-weeing with the laughter and planning another speech. The biggest danger these idiots pose is that they will make HIM look sensible to a mass audience. Justin Barret isnt a facist, he's a bollocks. If these groups want to know what the fight against fascism is really about they should check out what is happening to revolutionary and political prisoners in Turkish jails AS WE SPEAK ! If you want to do something constructive get down to the Turkish and US embassies and protest (as I have done on a number of occasions and will certainly do again ) Catch yourselves on and see whats happening in the real world.

by AFA Member Fri Oct 29, 2004 20:09

"They are heading for their comeuppance sooner or later- never fear (play with fire and all that..) but this shows that there is no room for ambivalence in dealing or tolerating criminal and unconstitutional behaviour. No man is an island and when they attack and threaten ONE they attack and threaten ALL. "

Wow, what a threat. Where were you when Barrett was break-dancing? Or were you one of the Deathmetalers who was dancing on the ground with him? You fantasists really cheer us up

"Best wishes ' Homer'"

I note with interest that Homer has not disowned your support or threats.

by Son of Cliff Fri Oct 29, 2004 20:16

From the current issue of Socialist Worker:

"THE PHYSICAL attack on Justin Barrett at the L & H debate was a futile
act and has only served to discredit the left in UCD.

In order to combat racism and the extreme right we need to build movements
that are democratic and involve hundreds of students not the type individual
conspiratorial actions like that which took place at the debate."

So the SWP have abandoned No Platform. Cliff is turning in his grave.

by Deco Griffin Fri Oct 29, 2004 23:35

"It was the IRA who took on the loyalists and the IRA had/have contempt for Irish AFA"
Which IRA? The IRA who were fighting the Brits in the 6 counties or the free state IRA who were lining their pockets working with drug dealers and robbing Dublin docks? Which side were you on?

by bloodonstalin'shands Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:50

threat it seems are in the eye of the beholder.

The beholder in this case being yet another member of the 'useful idiot' brigade fighting for the asylum (abuse) industry.
It's bourgeois beneficiaries must be laughing hard at you all!

by AFA Member Sat Oct 30, 2004 15:38

We're the ones who are doing the laughing. At your silliness and at your frustration. You are impotent and you know it. You cant do anything to stop AFA.

Once again, thanks for chering up these dull days.

by FF Mon Nov 01, 2004 15:25

Anybody who believes that all anti-immigration sentiment is only ‘fash’ as in fascist is just plain wrong/ deluded/ wilfully mispresentating their oppsition to justify their own excesses

by Buzzby Tue Nov 02, 2004 15:42

So lads... what's coming next?

When are the AFA planning to organise their next "guerilla attack"? And this time on who?

Come on, seeing as you're all above the law you should be able to tell us, openly. Or why do you hide your identities?

by Larry Tue Nov 02, 2004 20:56

The only ones who will stop the AFA are the members. And from the result of the whole Justin Barret Debacle speaks volumes. If these are the people who stand in the way of Facism were in trouble.
How about you fight facism in a more pro-active way. Facism will only arise if there is a vacumn. Why don't you fill it with something you believe in rather than running around fight against something you don't. You may be anti-facist but your not very good at it. AAFA. I do believe in what you are doing and wish you the best in the future but you must do better.

by Tony Tue Nov 02, 2004 21:12

This AFA lark must be catching on........

by pimmeltje Tue Nov 02, 2004 22:25

It's just the "Pim Fortuyn" syndrome ... the new found love of the Dutch for bringing the gun back into politics ......

Seems like they just got bored after half a century of impeccable political correctness .....

by Homer Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:33

Can I just for the record say a little about myself.

I seem to have given AFA and other groups that I am a fascist agitator on Indymedia. I never intended to do this. My background is as a scientist and any adherent to the scientific community is immediately aware of the ridiculous notions that discrimination on the grounds of race or gender are pointless, illogical and counter to all evidence.

I principally believe in freedom for all to make their own choices in life and that those who are better off or in a position to help others less fortunate should do so. This philosophy has led me to particpate in such wonderful endeavours such as working with the Dublin SIMON community for a year as well working with other groups.

I detest intimidation and violence and although I do see AFA's point in preventing racists from having a platform I cannot agree with their methods.

Fascism is stupid, pointless and the dumb policitcal philosophy of the thug. AFA think it should be wiped out violently and I think it should be done peacefully. We both agree it should be stamped out.

Nothing I've said on Indymedia was racist or right-wing but I seem to have, in my playful use of words, given this impression of myself to some people.

I'm sorry for this. I then tried to join AFA in order to see their point of view and, on meeting with them inform them of the threats made to me and subsequently carried out by people claiming to be anti-fascists. It turns out they already knew of this.

This Friday, I look forward to meeting AFA at the Indymedia fund-raiser and listening to their argument and having a good debate with them. Perhaps they'll see me for the well-intentioned joker and vehement anti-fascist that I am and we can put all this behind us.

by Mick McCabe Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:50

Okay, I've been told I must do this under my own name and the AFA action on me will cease.

I condemn racism in all its forms; whether it be turning away travellers from pubs, discriminating against a person of another ethnic group in employment or beating a black person up on the street for being black.

I'm proud to condemn all this under my own name. I would be proud to do this even if I was not under pressure from AFA to do so. I'm not a fascist and never have been.

by homer nods Wed Nov 03, 2004 16:48

Are you taking the piss Homer/Mick ???

by Homer/Mick Wed Nov 03, 2004 16:54

AFA are very serious and target those who they think are organised fascists. Due to an unfortunate set of circumstances - some fash on a racist board was boasting of ridculing AFA on Indymedia at the same time I was criticising the attack on Barrett and my attempt to contact AFA had me mistaken for this guy.

They proved to me how serious they are and I'd like this matter cleared up as soon as possible.

by cara Thu Nov 04, 2004 01:37

From what ive read so far it seems that the AFA are nothing more than a bunch of bully boys and thugs who go around intimidating and attacking anyone who disagrees with their politics.
In other words they have all the characteristics of fascists themselves

by makingtheconnection Thu Nov 04, 2004 03:08

Homer, a Cara
Have you not also posted as 'Milesian' sometime in the past?
The pieces are beginning to fall into place.

by Tony Thu Nov 04, 2004 09:42

Your name is not enough.

Where is your picture, address and details of nearest kin.

AFA will not stop until you and yours have been "re-educated" using all reasonable means.

Reasonable that is, to facists.

by FF Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:21

And not just Homer either the whole 80% of the Country who disagreed with the infinite wisdom and judgement of the AFA and the rest of the ‘anti-racist’ and ‘anti-fascist’ movement should submit their reprobate selves for re-education.

In fact I feel we all should humble ourselves to these gods of men who in the enrich us with their true greatness.

How could any mere mortal prole DARE contradict these moral, intellectual and indeed combatant titans in our unworthy mists?

by peter Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:29

I wonder in this context was Theo van Gogh a fascist?

by FF Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:44

“I wonder in this context was Theo van Gogh a fascist?”

And since Osama bin Laden would agree with his assassination that, in this context, would make and his ideology ‘anti-fascist’.

by Still wondering Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:51

I looked back at an earlier article and Homer took a strongly liberal and consistent position opposing the 'no platform' position. That might indicate that he is genuine. But someone alleged earlier (possibly on another thread?) that Homer posted to the Irish nazi site using his work e-mail. Has anyone confirmed whether that is accurate or not?
Even if he did post to that site there is the possibility that he was playing one side off against the other. At this stage I doubt whether either side would be inclined to trust him.
P.S. What is the 'Milesian connection'?

by GHi Thu Nov 04, 2004 13:01

"I looked back at an earlier article and Homer took a strongly liberal and consistent position opposing the 'no platform' position. That might indicate that he is genuine. But someone alleged earlier (possibly on another thread?) that Homer posted to the Irish nazi site using his work e-mail. Has anyone confirmed whether that is accurate or not?
Even if he did post to that site there is the possibility that he was playing one side off against the other. At this stage I doubt whether either side would be inclined to trust him.
P.S. What is the 'Milesian connection'?"

Showtrail time again is it?... next stop the purges!!

by Buzzby Thu Nov 04, 2004 16:48

You Reds are so pitiful. We know you nutcases are plentiful, so we never accuse you of posting under multiple personalities. But is that the best you can come up with?

If I shovelled my way through the muck on this site, the only argument I can extract from you freaks is the following:

"Oh, screw you Milesian, you fascist."
"Oh, screw you Homer, you fascist."
"Hang on...........
Could Milesian and Homer possibly be the same person? Or the same fascist?????"

Your logic is dumbfounding, and completely childish. YES there are nationalists out there, in large numbers, who disagree with your anti-Irish, permissive, sick ideologies blanketed under a false red flag of "liberty".

Grow up. But I'm sure there's another message pending charging that Buzzby, Milesian, Homer and Adolf Hitler are one and the same person.

by Buzzby Thu Nov 04, 2004 16:52

In addition, I find it hilarious how many jumped-up "activists" on this site define themselves politically by how much they "detest fascism", hate the Nazis and hate nationalism.

I wonder would you profess a hatred of Communism so vehemently? I think not.

by ghi Thu Nov 04, 2004 17:52

Quote from ‘Buzzby’ “In addition, I find it hilarious how many jumped-up "activists" on this site define themselves politically by how much they "detest fascism", hate the Nazis and hate nationalism.

I wonder would you profess a hatred of Communism so vehemently? I think not”

No most ‘activists’ here are crypto-Stalinists( as their suspicious behaviour shows) . However some on the non-Stalinist left understand and agree say immigration controls and tolerance for differing views.
As they can (as anyone with enough intelligence and insight can) understand that controls are necessary to protect, above all, the indigenous working classes and freedom of expression is important for all positive political progress and, not forgetting the result of this year’s citizenship referendum, the importance of the democratic voice also .

by agreed Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:00

These crypto-communists see fascism in anything that disgrees with them.

They long for a real Nazi opposition by which they can define themselves. Notice all this harping on about stormfront, which probably is only run and used by 3 real neo-nazis trying to get some attention.

by Afraid of Mags Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:34

There are plenty of rela nazis in ireland.
UDA, LVF etc.
confronting them would be dangerous so AFA don't do it.