Diagnosis: Projection With Elements of Denial and Narcissism

by R. Isible Fri Jan 28, 2005 01:29

Is it true? Or is it just a sloppy way of saying they both went to private schools as opposed to they both went to the _same_ private school?

by Chekov Fri Jan 28, 2005 05:10

I think the article is merely saying that they both went to a private school. Our glorious justice minister, who has grown into a true star of indymedia, attended Gonzaga in Ranelagh, while Scratcher went to Harrow. Excellent compilation eeekk, it's obvious that he enjoys the work putting the boot into marginalised groups of all kinds. I suppose he must be proud of himself, all those god-fearing, upstanding bankers, property speculators and politicians need protecting from justice after all.

by Dave D Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:06

While not a supporter of McDowell or a PD, the picture of him as a Nazi is a massive defamation which anyone with any journalistic know how would not think of publishing. If I were him I haul the children responsible for it in front of the high court quick smart.

The Nazi were responsible for murdering millions of Jew. The image is an offensively flippant distortion which displays the same ignorant grandstanding of the worst part of any right wing tabloid. It is not funny, not clever and utterly inappropriate given the ongoing memorials in Poland.

The fact that a picture of Gerry Adams doctored in such a way would never appear on this site displays the compromised morality and perverse politics that thrives on this forum.

This is the sort of crap that would, rightly, get your petty site shut down quick smart.

by Bishop Gregorious Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:21

was there a law in this country stating that it is illegal for a web site to use photoshop to stick Michael McDowell's head on a picture of Hitler?

Maybe Mr. Mc Dowell has just written up a new law. Maybe the young PDs at UCD will write up this new law and e mail it to zombie man.

This will be great a good thing. It will kick as, it will be a jam. People who vote PD and read the Sunday Independent are great, they are sensible. I wish I was just like them. It is now time to defend Western Values. Put people in jail for abusing free speech.

Or if we really want to return to our noble Western Democratic roots, we can enslave them or feed trhem to lions in a colleseum. Victory to the bombing of Iraq.

by . - . Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:24

first appeared here: http://struggle.ws/pdfs/ws/ws80.pdf

by Ugh Horde Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:26

Nonsense, Dave. It is excellent satire, and could be classed as "fair comment". Probably no worse than many of the cartoon images of politicians which have appeared in the mainstream media over the years.
Since us taxpayers pay the inflated salaries of these politicians, we are entitled to slag them off. Politicians are notoriously thick-skinned anyway.
What about all the books published about Bush? Some of them are much more vicious.

by Reality Check Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:31

This should certainly qualify as incitement to hatred. In many decent countries, you are not allowed use Nazi imagery at all.

Comparing Michael McDowell to Hitler in a joking fashion is all part of an ongoing Indymedia campaign to belittle the Holocaust and write it out of history.

All week, there has been a steady stream of articles asking why we aren't remembering the murder of innocent people in Iraq and Palestine. Yet the tragedies of the Middle East are referred to every single day here.

Why can we not have one week to recall the Holocaust, still the greatest single atrocity ever committed in the history of mankind.
You would not be drawing these McDowell/Hitler comparisons only for the week that's in it. And I think it's hateful and irresponsible in the extreme.

by Joe Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:41

There isn't any actual reference to the holocaust in the image and as already pointed out it was created a few months back. So I'm afraid your the one guilty of using the holocaust to try and score a cheap political point. Still if Putin can get away with it ...

If you want to complain about stuff that actually took place in the same week consider the tories 'get tough on immigration' electoralism announced this week. Probably a bit more related and a not a hundred miles removed from the attitude of our beloved Minister of Equality and Justice.

by juan pablo Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:52

as much as i dislike the man and his party i cannot criticize him on his continued attacks on sinn fein/ira and the criminality and the like that goes with it as he really does have his finger on the pulse there,my only fear is that he might go so overboard in his fury that he might push anti government people to vote for sinn fein.

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 15:34

Well let me just say that indymedia in general and me in particular have not (unlike Michael McDowell) been going around at every possible occasion portraying irish political opponents (specifically republicans) and certain newly established organs of the press as the same as the nazis and as criminals.

Indymedia has not been going around belittling the holocaust by saying that it is anologous to the (way way minor in comparison) troubles in the north of ireland with the PIRA placed in the role of the SS in concentration camps.

The troubles were a dirty war and srue some of the incidents alluded to by McDowell were despicable and unquestionably sectarian and wrong. But using this at the present time and with the anniversary of the liberation of the A. camp as a stick to label a significant part of the irish public north and south as akin to or at least supporters of the equivalent of nazi exterminators is pure amoral political propagandising, opportunism and posturing masquerading as morality. This article just points out that there is plenty of evidence of latent fascistic tendencies in McDowells actions over a three year period. Let him taste a little of his own medicine.

I am not a child either btw. I am an adult from el paso born during the first year of the troubles.

I note the comments wishing censorship and punishment on us. This is all obviously a little too close to the bone for some of our more mmmm right wing conservative readers and commenteers.

Finally let me point out a couple of things.
1. It is not illegal to caricature someone.
2. There are no factual inaccuracies in the listy of mcdowells symptoms.
3. It is not yet illegal anywhere to use the swastika in an image.
4. It was not I who started on about the nazis. I just turned it into a broad piece of satire on Freudian Analysis, Godwins(?) Law and our Nazi obsessed, Minister for Justice.

If satire is now illegal please let me know and I'll go turn myself in ;-)

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 15:40

It's not in the picture or the text so it must be in Reality Check's Head. It is Michael Mcdowell dressed up as a nazi leading a bunch of nazis over a hill.

There were loads of nazis - hitler was the leader.

by Reality Check Fri Jan 28, 2005 15:47

I don't know how you can say that there is no reference to the Holocaust in the imagery.
McDowell is portrayed as Hitler holding a flag with a swastika. The Holocaust is the single biggest mass murder ever perpetrated in the history of the world and one man Hitler had overall responsibility for it.
I challenge the original poster to find one person - let alone six million - that have died because of Minister McDowell.
He is not responsible for the rightful use of Shannon by the US military, a long-standing arrangement, which incidentally dates back to the Second World War, a time when some Irish people did themselves proud.
Unfortunately Ireland was also populated with people as it is now, who would have refused the US use of Foynes at the time and would have sent their respects to the Germans on the death of Hitler.

by pat c Fri Jan 28, 2005 15:52

McDowell is deporting refugees who he knows face death in their home countries. He is happy to deport women who will face genital mutilation or death at the hands of Islamic "Courts".

McDowell is also happy to call any and all of his political opponents Fascists. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Except that gander neck McDowell is fra more deserving of the fascist image.

by Reality Check Fri Jan 28, 2005 15:55

What "troubles" were there in El Paso?
Too many Taco Huts getting planning permission?
Nazi symbols ARE banned in Germany so that they can't be co-opted by anti-democratic left and right wing groupings.

by pat c Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:05

by el paso, i suspect IA means the border town - dundalk.

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:10

"I don't know how you can say that there is no reference to the Holocaust in the imagery.
McDowell is portrayed as Hitler holding a flag with a swastika."

How exactly do you know it is hitlers body that MC Dowell's head is on. I am looking hard at it and can't see any clues. Could be just an idealised 'aryan' commander. It portrays mcdowell dressed as a nazi - not as hitler. If I had meant a hitler comparison I'd have done what any kid would do and put a tash on michael.

"The Holocaust is the single biggest mass murder ever perpetrated in the history of the world and one man Hitler had overall responsibility for it."

I have no problems with this sentence. I agree with it but stating an unarguable moral position like that does not prove there is any reference to the holocaust in the image. I'm afraid that's in your head and you are just trying to portray me and indy by extention as anti semetic - which we are not.

"I challenge the original poster to find one person - let alone six million - that have died because of Minister McDowell."

I didint say that he did anywhere. Do you know something I don't??? This is a 'red (murdering commienazi) herring'.



"He is not responsible for the rightful use of Shannon by the US military, a long-standing arrangement, which incidentally dates back to the Second World War, a time when some Irish people did themselves proud."

The arrangement at present is unique. Never before has ireland facilitated any country in pursuing a war to this extent. 150,000 US troops per year approximately transit shannon every year to Iraq. The road from Baghdad Airport to Baghdad is now referred to by the US Military as 'Route Irish'.

"Unfortunately Ireland was also populated with people as it is now, who would have refused the US use of Foynes at the time and would have sent their respects to the Germans on the death of Hitler."

Now I know you're a spindoctor for the PDs. Exact same bullshit as mcdowell. No-one is buying this crap. Why don't yiz just come out and say DeValera was a Nazi himself? Mickey has gone too far and I think the people around him realise it just as clearly as i do.

Incitement to hatred is what HE is pursuing with his invidious nazi comparisons.

by Reality Check Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:12

Pat C - some evidence of that please.
In one of the cases you refer to, that of Ms Kate Bamidele, she has certainly not been deported. She did a runner instead.
Incidentally, it was also proven quite conclusively that her claims were completely bogus.
In the two HIGHLY publicised cases where women were actually facing stoning in Nigeria (ie the ones that were true) - neither execution was ever carried out.
No sharia stoning has taken place in Nigeria in recent times.
However, they were frequent in the now-liberated Afghanistan before the so-called "illegal invasion".

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:15

Up to the time his brother died on hunger strike - Raymond McCreesh's Brother was curate in my parish outside el paso and was pretty much my next door neighbour. He supported and cared for his brother.

Maybe he's a nazi/criminal too.

Reality Check is a really shit spindoktor. I hope he's not wasting too much taxpayers money on making lousy arguments on this site for 'children'.

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:27

PD Operative. He published the original Ranting about the nazis contribution in McDowells recent Bout. It's the one where the man who wants/has got records on all our fonecalls and web use backed up for four years quotes George Orwell of all people. I personally think he got the idea for the reference from reading Iosaf on Indymedia.

He is not a big fan of iosaf who has sometimes written Michael nasty letters and making sure he reads them by putting them where he knows michael will find them - on the indymedia ireland editorial mailing list.

by Chekov Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:29

"Incidentally, it was also proven quite conclusively that her claims were completely bogus"

Only if you think that one of the most odious pieces of gutter journalism in Ireland on Sunday which betrayed a complete lack of knowledge of Nigeria and was based upon doctoring an indy-photo to change her surname constitutes conclusive proof. Your regurgitation of that crap as gospel says a lot about your critical faculties.

Tens of thousands of people have died trying to immigrate into Europe since the construction of fortress EU. McDowell happily collaborates in this. He institutes policies that he knows will have the consequences of more deaths. Just because he hides behind legislation and legality doesn't mean he doesn't share some of the responsibility for their deaths.

by indy analyst Fri Jan 28, 2005 16:32

and he works for the PD's

it was probably his doctoring that made the story.

that's how it works.

bend reality when the boss looks bad.

Big lies better than small.

Ah well he's probably just following orders.

by Con Carroll Fri Jan 28, 2005 18:33 Dublin o86-8812277

Mc Dowell was interviewed on the radio this week and again congratulated himself for the racist referendum last june. One cannot have codolences for the murder of people during the holocaust, while at the same time using obscene racist language about women and children because they are asylum seekers. Mc Dowell has remained very quite about been congratulated by the ku klux klan.

by Badman Sat Jan 29, 2005 13:08

"the picture of him as a Nazi is a massive defamation"

Herr McDowell has been spending the last few months throwing the 'nazi' accusation around in the Dail at every opportunity. He is in no position to get on his high horse about defamation. The phrase 'he can give it but he can't take it' springs to mind.

by Anto Nazi Sat Jan 29, 2005 21:21

Marion County [Oregon] has allowed a Portland-area skinhead group to adopt a rural Salem road as part of a volunteer litter clean-up program.

The signs proclaiming that Sunnyview Road NE between Cordon Road and 82nd Avenue is sponsored by the American Nazi Party NSM were installed Monday.

by digitup Sun Jan 30, 2005 01:34

Well that just shows the direction the US is heading in, 'normalising' the nazis. I suspect that within another twenty years they will try to rehabilitate the memory of Hitler. They are well on the way down the nazi road already.

by StephenF Sun Jan 30, 2005 15:50 Steve.benn at nsgg dot ie

Bad photoshopping and idiotic statements dont constitute an argument. The so called liberals here(totalitarians and tyranist supporters in fact) are just smeering excrement as usual... indymedia grinds on...

by eeeekkk Sun Jan 30, 2005 15:53

smearing is how you spell it mr young pd

come back when you have an education and an argument

by kermit Sun Jan 30, 2005 18:15

"Bad photoshopping and idiotic statements dont constitute an argument. The so called liberals here(totalitarians and tyranist supporters in fact) are just smeering excrement as usual... indymedia grinds on..."

by mise Sun Jan 30, 2005 18:25

Would he accept photographic evidence of IRA dis-armament - well it's good enough for his bigot buddies up north.

by targetpractice Sun Jan 30, 2005 19:57

"what an eejit - are all pd's like that?"
No, only about 99.5% of them. After all, we must not generalise.

Regarding the nazi roadsign I'm sure one or two of the locals could do a bit of creative artwork on it. Or they could use it as part of utilising their second amendment rights.
(Thats the one about their right to keep and bear arms)
See how many holes it can take.

by nerraw Sun Jan 30, 2005 22:35

While I agree with most of the points with the article, I find it silly to include what a racist group said about the politics of Ireland. It's a cheap shot and serves no purpose other than to highlight the desperation of the writer to post as many points about McDowell.

Waste of time and dragged the article to the gutter where the rest of the papers they claim are

by indy analyst Sun Jan 30, 2005 23:17

unlike like a lot of mcdowells outpourings it is factually correct

by Phuq Hedd Sun Jan 30, 2005 23:58

QUOTE: "While I agree with most of the points with the article, I find it silly to include what a racist group said about the politics of Ireland. It's a cheap shot and serves no purpose other than to highlight the desperation of the writer to post as many points about McDowell."

RESPONSE: If a racist group (the KKK) approves of the stance taken by Minister McDowell on immigration then it lends weight to the claim that his policies are racist. It's not just a "cheap shot". Even if it were "just a cheap shot" it doesn't mean that it's not a _true_ "cheap shot". I think your judgement isn't very good if you find it "silly" to ignore this support.

QUOTE: "Waste of time and dragged the article to the gutter where the rest of the papers they claim are"

RESPONSE: This is a very unclear sentence. Working on one possible interpretation of it I'd point out that there's nothing wrong with "gutter journalism" as long as it is _true_. I'd love to see a left-wing gutter journal pursue the rich and their lackeys with as much tenacity as they pursue the irrelevant lives of celebrities. I'd love to know which TDs and ministers are members of Opus Dei, who their bonking and whether or not those bonkees receive remuneration or reward in some fashion, all of their business dealings, their personal habits in regard to sex, drugs, recreation and family. Most importantly I'd like to know about this on the basis of evidence extracted by spying and intrusion on them over a long period of time. Why? Because they run one of the most centralised, authoritarian states in Europe solely on the basis of trust and bullshit. If I'm stuck in a representative democracy having to rely on the whims of some spanner educated by the jesuits then I want to know when he displays an inordinate fondness for leather boots and cold showers so that I can point out even to the thickest of acquaintance that he's a particular type of person.

by Badman Mon Jan 31, 2005 01:03

To elaborate a little on Ms. Hedd's excellent point about the KKK above.

The KKK presumably very rarely issues statements about irish politics. Obviously they felt that this was an important event with regards to their particular political project (ie white supremacy). No other international political movements felt motivated enough by the referendum to issue a statement of congratulation about it. Surely this is instructive and tells us quite a lot about the referendum.

To use an analogy. Imagine if you made a film and it was ignored by the international move business and media, but received rave reviews and congratulations from the man-boy love association. Would that give you pause for thought?

by fred Mon Jan 31, 2005 19:41

The only people who seem to care less about the KKK's endorsment is you pack of confused obsessives.

McDowell is a Churchill figure (in a WWII context)-standing alone while the traitors and appeasers attack him from all sides while he gains massive public support for his heroic position against the mass wholesale abuseof his Country's (heath)_ resources.

His opponents are traitors one and all!

by Devil Dog Mon Jan 31, 2005 19:47

Spot on - I'm sure the KKK follow Irish politics with a very keen interest, yet manage to refrain from commenting on all other issues except this...or maybe some sad journo thought it would be a grand old wheeze to call them up, tell them about the referendum and get a few sound-bytes?

Incidentally, where does the wording of the referendum mention race?

by dl, Tue Feb 01, 2005 13:27

http://www.dannymorrison.com/forum/printthread.php?t=4315
http://www.dailyireland.ie/statement.htm

To find out when an apology was going to be made by McD I called his PO. The first member of staff in McDowells press office didn't know what I was talking about...questioning me as to whether this was actually on the dept. website? I told her that i had read it elsewhere but is sourced from dept. website, she was checking it out for me when I got cut off.........I called back immediately, asked for the lady I was speaking to, I was told she had just popped out of the office,
the second person I spoke to also questioned me as to where McD had made such comments on website, I said I didn't know and that perhaps it was removed. He asked if I was online and then proceeded to give me directions to a statement made by McD on Jan 13 under press releases on the site, but then quickly added that Daily Ireland was in fact, not mentioned in the statement !
Ha!
So the question of an apology was brought up again......I was told to send them an e-mail

by newsforthedeaf Wed Feb 02, 2005 21:10

a picture of McDowell donning a pointy white hat(e)?


Also I [cynically] find the timing of McDowells following comments as cynical. Coinciding with the public search for the boy from Midleton.


“This is a case where desireability for ID cards has to be shown by people who want it. This isn’t a top-down thing, this will be a bottom-up decision. If people don’t want cards then we won’t impose them,” he said.
Plans for a mandatory ID card are at an advanced stage in Britain. ID cards will begin to be issued along with passports within three years.
Westminster is due to consider whether to make them mandatory by 2011.

Opinion polls in Britain suggest that plans for national ID cards are supported by around 80 per cent of people.

TIT alleges
While personally reluctant to introduce such a scheme, the Minister said plans for a compulsory ID card in the UK would have implications for Ireland because of our shared Border and common travel area.

At present Irish nationals travelling to the North and Britain are not required by immigration authorities to produce a passport. However, this may change once the British govt’s plans for compulsory ID cards are introduced.


-Ripped to the T.I.T’s on ink and plugs.
Rearranged and transcribed from Omnday the 17th Jan
Carl O’ Brien, Social Affairs Correspondent.


"Today’s press agent regards the newspaper as a ventriloquist does his dummy. He can make it say what he wants. He looks on it as a painter does his palette and tubes of pigment; from the endless resources of available events, an endless variety of managed mosaic effects can be attained.


I.D.eal Citizens

by Gupta Thu Feb 03, 2005 16:21

It would be hard luck on the hindu (and associated religions) community if the swastika was banned. They have been using for thousands of years, and continue to use, the swastika as a means of keeping evil spirits away. It's all over the place in India. The Israelis don't object and why would they, it's not a nazi symbol there, even if it might make them feel uncomfortable.

by eeekkkkk Tue Dec 13, 2005 17:57

some evidence above

by * Thu Dec 29, 2005 16:45

austrian.

by a different kind of wag Tue Mar 28, 2006 23:20

That Didn't Take Long

'It wouldn't be Irish politics without double standards. Though I think Phoenix gave up being serious a long time ago. Watch for any of the people who piled on McDowell week to do likewise now with the Phoenix, and wonder a little about the integrity of the media class when they don't.'

http://siciliannotes.blogspot.com/2006/03/that-didnt-ta....html

the Phoenix