Protests Against Recent Deportations From Ireland To Take Place In Seven Cities

by not buying it Sat Mar 26, 2005 17:26

I dont believe one word of the thrash that was written in that article where does the writer get the facts from its complete rubbish i dont think the government would let something like that happen and anyway how do you know there not lieing about it i agree with ntr.

by gerard Thu Mar 24, 2005 09:41

"And on that subject, how do you suppose such Irish peasants, from desperately poor, ill educated, remote tribal areas, managed to pull togeteher the money to leave ireland and traipse across the atlantic to arrive there (USA) in the first place?

Oh yeah - in famine times and times of poverty and conflict - those irish who managed to get out were cheats thieves drunkards liars -

Go away you racist - this is 'punch' and it's like updated with nigerians replacing irish - nothing more"

How fucking stupid are you? Irish people going abroad in the 19th century were looking for a better life, and had no illusions about this.

by ipse Wed Mar 23, 2005 20:11

attempts to entice the Irish diasporia to return accompanied the early five years of exceptional growth figures of what is termed the celtic tiger.
C/F http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tiger
A phenomonal period of growth which the PDs claim to have authored. The campaign to "return" migrants included full page adverts copying the Kitchener WW1 recruitment poster which ran in all countries with large Irish communities.
But it was observed that many of those who returned were of the older generation, and mainly to avail of higher pension rates and more "euro" for the sterling savings. Not the young liberal and let us be honest, non racist tolerant Irish who had left in their droves.
The second phase of the "celtic tiger" saw the creation of an economy based on financial and IT services, where the main employment boost was in what we term "precarious" working conditions. Such conditions did not seem to be a major improvement on the terminable unemployment of the 1980s to most diasporic Irish, so faced with the choice of staying in a "mcjob" in a better climate, or going to a country with crap public services and poor transport infrastructure and bad reputation for urban crime, most stayed where they are. Thus Ireland's "migration" curve in the last years has been those Europeans who are willing to work in precarious conditions and fuel further speculation in the rented sector, or third worlders many of whom have already passed through either the UK or France and "believe" the Irish syndicated globalised myth of "welcome, tolerance and fair play".
Ireland has very serious obligations to the Irish born citizens resident in the EU (none of whom are granted a say in the democratic election process an anomoly within the Union) and to the migrants who enter the Union, and the workers who circulate freely as is their European right within the Union.
However the minds who take the credit for the "celtic tiger", could never really deal with a pluri-cultural society. Their interest group has grown rich in two generations on the basis of prolonged conflict between socio-economic and religious ethnic groups, and the last thing they really want is a modern society. Otherwise they would have made the neccesary investment in the future. They have joked before (in reference to supporting the Iraq war) that they are "closer to Boston than Berlin", without reflecting that Boston is closer to Salt Lake City or Tenessee than Dublin. Its for the next generation to correct these wrongs. Its for them to decide "are they racist?", "are they bigoted on religious grounds?" and then they can "reclaim their republic".
But before that they have a lot of work to do.
A lot of gestures, a lot of culture, a lot of bad wood to clear out of politics, and a lot of migrants to bring into the political process. And that is in the interest of Europe, be it Europe of the Mediterrean or Europe of Berlin, or Europe of Warsaw, Europe of Brixton, Europe of Toxteth, Europe of Istanbul.

This next generation know what that means, they have been educated in Ireland, not sent to elite establishments in the USA. They understand what being European is about.

by semanticist Wed Mar 23, 2005 19:17

of a racist who knows his comments will be deleted if he actually says whast he means or believes

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 19:07

Quote:

And on that subject, how do you suppose such Irish peasants, from desperately poor, ill educated, remote tribal areas, managed to pull togeteher the money to leave ireland and traipse across the atlantic to arrive there (USA) in the first place?

Have me there. I keep on forgetting that Irish people fabricated the famine, used human traffickers to get to the US, were not vetted on arrival, Ellis Island was a myth, they globe-trotted on 747's through China and Australia on the way and claimed political asylum under the (not yet formulated) 1951 convention on arrival and lapped up taxpayers money vis a vis welfare, medical assistance, housing etc while their fabricated claims were processed.

by semanticist and historian Wed Mar 23, 2005 19:04

.

by semanticist Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:52

And on that subject, how do you suppose such Irish peasants, from desperately poor, ill educated, remote tribal areas, managed to pull togeteher the money to leave ireland and traipse across the atlantic to arrive there (USA) in the first place?

Oh yeah - in famine times and times of poverty and conflict - those irish who managed to get out were cheats thieves drunkards liars -

Go away you racist - this is 'punch' and it's like updated with nigerians replacing irish - nothing more

by R. Isible Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:47

You're doing it again! You're saying that all Nigerians are responsible for FGM so they should be deported!

Then you spring off on another mad burst of illogic and attempt to prove that FGM only occurs in remote areas and furthermore that the Nigerian asylum seekers in Ireland can't be from those areas because they have to be rich to get here.

So by your own logic the Nigerians present in Ireland are not from remote areas which practice FGM and at the same time when they get to Ireland they start performing backstreet FGM (which you refuse to prove).

Don't you see the insanity of this line of thought process?

Don't you see that you've just asserted completely opposite claims in your successive posts?

Don't you see that you're stereotyping /all/ Nigerians based on rumours?

Seriously, focus on a real problem and don't waste your time obsessing over racist fantasies.

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:39

No Risible.

Your uncanny knack of gettinmg the wrong end of the stick continues.

What I am saying is that FGM (in this context) is a problem that Nigerians inflict WILLINGLY on fellow Nigerians, in isolated regions and tribes and geography matters little if the will or the people are there for it to happen.

Unless it is your contention that when Ireland deports illegal immigrants from here to Nigeria, we literally parachute them into these remote areas, into the hands of those who would practice such medieval butchery.

Or perhaps you believe, Nigeria, a country the size of France and Germany combined, is too small for people to escape such tribal customs that the Nigerian Government wants stamped out.

And on that subject, how do you suppose such Nigerians, from desperately poor, ill educated, remote tribal areas, manage to pull togeteher the money to leave Africa and traipse across several European countries to arrive here in the first place.

And finally, why do groups trying to protect such people, plaster their names amd photos all over the media if the entire continent of Africa cannot provide them protection?

by R. Isible Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:19

In essence you argue that because you believe that some Nigerians are accused of carrying out FGM in Ireland that other Nigerians ought to be deported to possibly face that fate because they too are Nigerian.

That's some weird logic NTR. And when we add your lack of willingness to supply verifiable sources for any of your claims (not that that'd make your bizarre visiting of the alleged sins of one member of a group on all of them rational) then I think we can say that you've got a bee in your bonnet.

When I look over the newswire and see the problems with Shell interfering with farmers in Mayo, the US flouting our neutrality in Shannon and the mis-management of anti-depression drug information nationally I wonder why you can't get a better hobby with a humane goal at the end of it.

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:13

Risible,

You will find those facts alongside the number of backseat abortions that are performed.

It is your assertion that none of these things ever happen I suppose.

by R. Isible Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:06

Either back up what you're saying with a published source that we can all examine or retract.

by gloria Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:03

"Make no mistake without the investment and assistance of the European Union there would not now be any prosperity to deny to migrants to the Union in the interests of building an association of states with common values in the post-fascist and post-racist and post-stalinist continent. Acceptance of migrants is not only our moral responsibility it is a step to the future of the development of Africa and our common longterm security."

Shouldn't we all try and make more of an effort then to encourage imigration to Ireland from Ireland. Maybe RAR should look into promoting this also.

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 18:02

It would be a very brave person that would deny there has never been an FGM in Ireland.

Fact is, it was a circumcision requested by a Nigerian asylum seeker and performed by another Nigerian asylum seeker.

It resulted in the death of a Nigerian, 3000 miles from Nigeria, in a country where people wail about the prospects of people being returned to a country where it is practiced on females in isolation and in defiance of a brave effort to kill it off.

by ex-Pioneer Wed Mar 23, 2005 16:51

RAR Dublin Protest: Refugees Are Welcome!
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69087

by Michael Wed Mar 23, 2005 16:07

good to see the protest so well attended. Numbers: At anyone time there was about 200; but there was a lot of movement in and out; so it was probably about 500-700 in total. Good cross-mix of everyone at the protest...

by shoegirl Wed Mar 23, 2005 15:59

I don't think the Waterford death was FGM, I understood it was a routine male circumcision but carried out in unhygenic and inappropriate surroundings.

by Anonymous Wed Mar 23, 2005 14:31

Just back from the protest at the Dail. V. good turnout. Maybe 700 though hard to judge. Lots of school kids obviously but plenty of other folk, like myself, as well. Plenty of noise and lots of banners. Though unfortunately speaker system was poor and could not hear some of the speakers of which there were many. Joe Higgins spoke very well and was able to raise his voice enuf so that you could hear him. Punciass De Rossa was also there.

V. good media attendance as well. Plenty of video cameras and photographers.

Will take a lot to change McDowells mind but great to see the pressure being exherted.

by ipsiphi Wed Mar 23, 2005 13:40

The Irish and French religious orders accounted for most of the educators in West Africa during the Empire periods.

The large number of anglicans and presbytarian schools in Ghana date from missionary drives from Ulster (where Mc Dowell's jurisidiction ends) and to this day there are strong links with Irish convent orders in Nigeria and neighbouring states.

At present in the post imperial age, the UK accepts more entrants from West africa than any other developed nation according to OECD figures published in yesterday's Daily Telegraph.

Ireland falls far short of accepting its responsibility in housing and educating migrants to the European Union, and rather leads the Union in stoking racism. Make no mistake without the investment and assistance of the European Union there would not now be any prosperity to deny to migrants to the Union in the interests of building an association of states with common values in the post-fascist and post-racist and post-stalinist continent. Acceptance of migrants is not only our moral responsibility it is a step to the future of the development of Africa and our common longterm security.

the ZP government of Spain one of the European states with very large numbers of migrants (including refugees, asylum seekers, illlicit imported poor, illegal migrants, seasonal workers et cetera) has moved the most of any state in Europe to rectify the situation. And has recommended to its European Partners an intake figure of 10% of population. Yesterday after closing stability pact of the EU it attended the Arab League where migration justice issues were at the top of the agenda.

The Minister quite obviously appears to many in Europe and America as a racist, who has little idea of the long term social effects of his policy.

And the weakness of his hypocritical attempts to excite shock at the how much a secondary school education in Ireland costs the taxpayer, might just backfire.

link to my thoughts on "black chaps & blackguards" and colated articles on this issue-

by Jon Glackin - Street Seen Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:59

For more details of the barbaric practice of FGM and why it should be grounds for asylum....
http://streetseennews.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_streetseennews_archive.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page....

by dermot Wed Mar 23, 2005 09:36

Even if female genital mutilation was a reason for someone to claim they are being persecuted, why come to Ireland? Nigeria is a big country.

And yes, those practices do go on in secret in Ireland as well.

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 09:30

You've lost me Paul.

Are you trying to castigate Nigerians for eliminating Female Genital Mutilation, or do you suggest Ireland introduce it????

I seem to remember some Nigerian child dying from such a procedure here alright.

If memory serves correct, it was requested by Nigerians and performed by a Nigerian in Waterford.

by Me Under Another Name - Talking to Myself Wed Mar 23, 2005 01:14

So Paul, I take it that your whining campaign is centered around the idea of reducing Ireland to having a Human Rights record on the same abysmally low level as Nigeria's?

When you've achieved that then yourself and NTR could have a good whine about how the people whining about Female Genital Mutilation in your Future Ireland should count themselves lucky compared to being boiled alive in Uzbekistan

by Paul Wed Mar 23, 2005 01:07

I have to ask the question - what if the situation was reversed? What if we were seeking asylum with those people in their country?

I would love to hear Rosanna Flynn or any of her fellow whiners drum up a story on how we would be welcomed with open arms in Lagos or Nairobi.

by NTR Wed Mar 23, 2005 00:13

From the link:

While the Nigerian federal government so far has publicly condemned FGM as a harmful practice, it has not taken any legal action against FGM in the past. Nigeria, like many other countries of the world, however has taken several steps aimed at eliminating all forms of practices that infringe on the dignity of women and girls, including the support of campaigns against FGM.

- To this end, Nigeria has ratified several UN Conventions and Declarations that make provision for the promotion and protection of the health of women and girls, the Nigerian Ministries of Health and of Women Affairs said in a joint statement yesterday.

By marking the International Day for Zero Tolerance to FGM, the Ministries expect to "bring together all stakeholders to join hands to achieve zero tolerance for Female Genital Mutilation in the country." This, said Minister of Information, Chief Chukwuemeka Chikelu, was to "give the necessary support that fighting against FGM deserves."