Darklight Symposium 2005

by dunk Tue Oct 25, 2005 16:14

live stream this friday?
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71892&condense_comments=false#comment125656
includes audio description of the process

18.5 min interview
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/live_stream.wav
from
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7423.php

by dunk Wed Oct 26, 2005 19:26

(email just sent out to a few different networks, meeting people to confirm in 10 minutes, so fingers crossed)

the darklight symposium happens this friday, its free, its booked out, but we are trying to broadcast it over the net and hope imc-ie will help promote it globally

“The symposia will identify, profile and respond to the current transformations in the distribution of cultural production enabled by the proliferation of digital and wireless networks. “

so imc's fall into this weird world big time, im not sure if many imc-ers will be there?
28th October 2005, Digital Exchange, The Digital Hub, Crane St. Dublin 8

i have approached darklight, as one of the imc-crew with the intention of streaming the entire event using http://www.streamerp2p.com/ , originally we tried to get NEAR fm to join in to do an outside broadcast but they were unable due to lack of notice.

yesterday i did a short radio interview with eoin which explains how this type of peer to peer system works, along with a few other thoughts about why this stuff is quite an amazing tool and what it could lead to as it becomes more used.

http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/live_stream.wav 18.5 min

for a while ive been trying to get a "live stream" done by indymedia, if this happens it could be the first, with the plans for a physical imc space in the new social centre we hope this becomes a regular event

more info about the social centre:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71888

the symposium is presently booked out, but some of the social centre people have talked about opening up the seomra spraoi for a second venue to come and listen to the symposium, this space is already a WIFI space, so a simple laptop and speakers should do the trick.

a blog will be up and running for the duration of the symposium, for links and updates as they happen see this link

if we suceed in getting the event streamed other radio stations around the planet might open their channels up to the stream with the result of many local stations cachment areas listening to the symposium and also being able to directly participate through telephone or internet.

we are aproaching the AMARC network to ask them to let their network know

http://www.amarc.org/

NEARfm are part of this global community network, maybe they will stream part of the symposium?
http://www.nearfm.ie

this is another step in
building up the RADICAL radio network
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71892

About Indymedia

The Independent Media Centre is a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. We work out of a love and inspiration for people who continue to work for a better world, despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness to cover the efforts to free humanity.

further info:

http://www.indymedia.ie/aboutus.php

AMARC- the global community radio network

NEAR fm - north east access radio - local community radio

by Saoririseoir Fri Oct 28, 2005 04:18

How do we know this is not a stunt?
i.e., even when sitting in a realworld 'symposium' with such a format, there's no way that even a sizeable minority can have a fair say, let alone each listener worldwide being able to 'interface' spontaneously with whatever is going on.

I am interested in most of the topics under discussion, but rather than the 'expert lecturing' approach, why not publish what has to be said as articles on imc, and let readers democratically give considered viewpoints, recommendations and/or criticisms.

This is about empowerment is it not! or is it networking in the traditional sense?

At the very least, record everything (at 96kbps for radio; /32kbps for net) divy it up, stick it online so net-users can listen in their own time, and even analog radio stations can broadcast at anytime that suits their schedule.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 09:25

the more we push at these things the more open and democratic they become-
ie perhaps in a half year we will have a live imc-ie symposium coming to the world from the seomra spraoi with all things you mention above being tested and experimented
hope you are able to listen and more importantly; input these ideas

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 09:33

--Darklight Digital Festival Bulletin 2005 ---
Darklight festival brings you the best in new digital art and cinema.
October 2005.

-----------------------------------------------
October 2005
Welcome to Darklight Digital Festival Update 2005

-----------------------------------------------
Audio Stream of Symposium
-----------------------------------------------

Hi all, if you want to listen to the Darklight Symposium on the 28th
you
can get a stream by downloading Streamer P2P from and install it.
http://www.streamerp2p.com/

Then search for the Darklight broadcast, right click and select
‘listen’.

We will be Blogging the event so if you want to post to the Blogand
join
in the discussion , email Jessie@darklight-filmfestival.com and you
will
be invited to join the Blog.

Thanks to Indymedia Ireland for helping this to happen.
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72507


The Darklight Team.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 09:57

sorry for roughness
hope some of you make it down to your social centre to participate in this event

indymedia irelands first live stream

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:07

when you download the streamer p2p network you should get a dialogue box like in image, click on the darklight channel, listen, participate, tell us your there, wherever that is

streamer P2P - darklight

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:25

another blog informed about this event
http://easa.antville.org/stories/1246475/
EASA; euro student architecture blog

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:04

im down in darklight symposium at present, the channel can be picked up on the web, there are some tek hitches here from the digital hub, tek heads are trying to find out what these are and how to sort them. it is possible to click and listen to other live streams from streamerP2P, so its just a matter of sorting things from this end

2 laptops and projector are ariving at seomra spraoi in a matter of minutes

speaker and other stuff is there at present

venue here in digital hub is only half full, they said people can come on down, were still ploughing on with the live stream

on the streamer website, the darklight channel is number 48, found at present on http://www.streamerp2p.com/index.php?p=40&t=&i=&s=l&l=10&br=

by Jon G Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:09

I thought it was my lack of tech abilities that was causing the prob!
Can you post something when the glitches are ironed out?

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:10

another thread raising questions about the symposium, the funding etc:
You'll Work Harder with Biometrics
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72690

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:32

eoin talked with greg, the tek head here, and good news
stream is happening

by link? Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:33

'imc-ie first stream'

where is the link dunk?

I wanna listen

and what do you mean by first?

by grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:35

dunky

Dunk doesn't get one

by listener Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:36

List the equipment needed for this.

Did you buy that amp thing, How much did it cost?

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:40

the boundaries have been pushed, imaging the future, everyones future

imc-ie first live stream- 12.32pm fri oct 2005

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:47

stated above at
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72507&condense_comments=false#comment125916


"Hi all, if you want to listen to the Darklight Symposium on the 28th
you
can get a stream by downloading Streamer P2P from and install it.
http://www.streamerp2p.com/ "
once there, download software, takes about 15 seconds
then scroll through list till you see the darklight channel, click on it and listen,

if you have further trouble see
http://www.streamerp2p.com/index.php?page=howtoinst.htm

email them and ask for the blog, its not projecting here in the digi hub yet, but will be,
seomra spraoi will be open for people to come to, drink tea, listen, watch the blog, PARTICIPATE, in the discussion

thanks to all who made happen
look out for imc-ie radio, coming to you live, soon

by utter gobshite Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:47

on where we go, & what we click please to ensure that neither you nor any of your chums are breaking the license agreements on material published through the indymedia network.

Thank you very much.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:49

all software free, listen to the interview above later for the philosophy or theory about this stuff
why bother with it, what it can achieve, how you can help make a larger more open, participative, democratic communication system
18.5 min interview
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/live_stream.wav

by DUNK Fri Oct 28, 2005 13:56

eoin just came up so to make it simpler
just click on
http://www.streamerp2p.com/phasex.php?id=11358
and listen

by UTTER GOBSHITE Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:01

on wifi, cable and 2 internet providers to three seperate computer systems - MS based, Mac and Unix and can't hear a word on any of them.

your widget X test is utter crap. I'll spread rumours about you before you die.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:07

it was working here, i was listening to it

last discussion has just ended, music is being played at present, perhaps a switch has not been switched,

ill go and check, hope you all can add your input after lunch

we will be in seomra spraoi, come and join us for tea

dunk, signing off

by bp fallon Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:20

"I don't know where we are going now
let me feel like the one, take a look at me now"

i hope the PRS sue you for the royalties.

by GOBSHITE Fri Oct 28, 2005 14:23

just been taken off the turn table. pause. some english accent talking about yuppies and wind-downs. "kim just found out she was pregnant on a train, she did the test on a the virgin train from london to manchester, she's overwhelmed by the decisions she has to make...."

utter shite masquerading as art.

by dunk - seomra spraoi collective Fri Oct 28, 2005 15:19

ive nithing to do with the lunchtime sounds, we are busyb here in seomra spraoi, making a space for streaming the forum
this mail is from the 1st floor of seomra spraoi, wifi space, soon we will be PARTICIPATING in the forum

re spraoi and death and war etc, id direct you to
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2003/06/273076.wmv
film

come down and join us

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 15:33

the stream is working, we are listening to the discussion live from the hub.
htey are talking about eamons "berlosconis mousetrap" just now, just showed a slide from the film

by listener Fri Oct 28, 2005 16:07

please remove the stuff thats nothing but abuse

Im listening again, good sound, I havn't been able to chat to anyone, do you click on Dj chat or what.

I saw @Darklight nick but nobody replied with room do you go into?

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 16:30

just rang therm there, seeing as they are now in question time
they havent had time to set up a phone in number and person who can ask questions, like what was set up last year at the indymedia mayday centre for the "mainstream media and the alternatives" forum
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64567

i proposed that you can text into niki, not sure if i can give her number,
there is a blog, to get on it, you have to ask them to join blog, they send out invite and you join in.
that blog was supposed to be on 1 of the 2 screens, but as now it has not yet been set up

we have a projector here in seomra spraoi, once blog ready we wil have it up on wall

email from darklight:
If you are interested in joining the Darklight Blog and contributing to
the Symposium discussion
on-line, bring your laptops along to the event and email Jessie Ward
at,
jessie@darklight-filmfestival.com with a request to ?Join the Blog?
over the next couple of days.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 16:38

glitch at moment, now audio for last 5 minutes, hope its back soon, others having this problem?

by dunk - seomra spraoi collective Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:24 fuspey at yahoo dot co dot uk

some of the seomra spraoi collective and indiduals from indymedia-ireland have managed to set up a live stream from the darklight symposium "the future for digital media", it is presently being broadcast live to the world and we have set up a venue to listen and participate in the forum in (y)our social centre here in middle abbey street
the original thread attempting this ambitios project is found here
Darklight Symposium 2005
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72507

a small argument flared up within the imc-collective to do with improper acts in the name of the collective, without full suppor of the collective. this mostly comes from a lack of face to face meetings, some peoples difficulty with clikity clik land, a vagueness to how the imc collective actually works. but like all things these are little problems which will be ironed out soon enough:
imc-ie development : physical space and first live stream
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68510#comment125837

to listen to the stream live, you must:
get a stream by downloading Streamer P2P from and install it.
http://www.streamerp2p.com/ "
once there, download software, takes about 15 seconds
then scroll through list till you see the darklight channel, click on it and listen,

if you have further trouble see
http://www.streamerp2p.com/index.php?page=howtoinst.htm

or else simply click on
http://www.streamerp2p.com/phasex.php?id=11358
and listen

the darklight crew said they wouold set up a blog that would be shown in the digitial hub, so far it has not happened

theres a few of us up here now, tea, live feed from the digi hub, a projector getting ready to show the blog

info about what the seomra spraoi can be found here:
Seomra Spraoi collective invites you to a night of play, art, discussion, film, food, disco
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71888

we did an audio interview 2 days ago with eoin, who pointed out where this streamer P2P technology was, how it can be used, why it should be used:

18.5 min interview about "live streaming"
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/live_stream.wav

we have been trying for about 3 years to make this project happen, we've done it now
earlier thinkings about live stream:
global civil society - how things can be in the future
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64936&search_text=global%20civil

big thanks to all for support in all ways

live stream - from digital hub right into seomra spraoi,

by redjade - broadband at last! Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:35

'Please wait... Darklight is loading. When you hear it, you may close this browser window.'

this is all I get :-/
sorry was hoping to listen in today.

Nice to hear the .wav file with eoin & dunk however :-)

streamerp2p doesnt have an app for mac, btw. Tried using iTunes and RealPlayer (ACK!) and didnt get anything other than the above msg.

hope yu archive it all later

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:43

good to hear from you redjade, those ideas we talked about are happening more and more, hope the life is rocking in hungary
we created a new thread, for ease of reading and to get a pic on front page to let other imc-ie'rs know that this event is happening.
its early days, but a big day for us

we are now braodcasting that audio file with eoin telling us about P2Pstremaer onto middle abbey st; seomra spraoi radio, later we will have the 6.00 imc news from the seomra spraoi steps

future of digital media: live stream - from digital hub right into seomra spraoi
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72699

by utter gobshite Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:53

at 13h20 local time the "first live stream" of "indymedia ireland" which you have vaunted, and pushed as your own personal project under our collective name, saw a three minute recording with a "pro-life" theme on a 20 year old woman's life after a pregnancy test.

& now you say thats nothing to do with you?
Then what exactly is your rôle in all this?

Do we have a "collective position" on the proper response to pregnancy tests?
Please let us know, what with it being a historic day and all that.

by dunk Fri Oct 28, 2005 18:49

a forum about "future of mainstream media" was scheduled to happened, for free, inside walls of digital hub. a limited number of people could get to and participate in this forum, as part of imc-ie i sent a mail to the list outlining a proposal to the collective about attempting to create a live stream of the event, so that those unable to attend, due to work, living in a different country etc, could still listen and maybe even participate in the event.
i got only 1 email response to this mail i sent, saying cant get there, but support idea. other imc'ers i met in public said idea sounded good to go for it, also at 2nd last imc-ie meeting i outlined a proposal to the group that was collected there about plans to do, more or less, what we have done today, at the meeting people said they were, more or less, in favour of the projects, at that point we were doing work with radio and attempting live streams in moore st and with the homeless network
anyway, this came together in the last few days and we (now clearly not the imc collective, but a group of friends and all at last nights seomra spraoi meeting) pitched in together to make it happen.

we got the stream up and running here in the social centre and the bits we heard were very relevant to this global network: the future of digital media, we heard eamon speaking, we heard others speaking, we tried to further the process by ensuring an easy mechanism for people not physically present to be able to participate in this discussion. this was an experiment, another step in an ongoing process,
so re u2 music etc, people there played music at lunchtime, i offered to play imc-radio files during the break, they wanted to not bother and play music- i had to head at this point to make the physical space in abbey st a reality

i did not hear the pro life bit refered to above, ill hear it soon, and will hear from people exactly what points were being made.

we have shown imc, clown films here today, now were showing "rural riot" by revolt video, people have come into the space, learned about stuff, watched films, listened to the forum from digi hub. most of the content from imc-ie collective has not been supportive, incl, our attempts to have the photo of "network age' pic put to front page to inform the imc-ie readers that this stream was happening, unfortunately for various reasons it did not happen, the event is over.

so where to from here: next real world indymedia ireland i suppose, for discussions about the collective moving into this space and having a real world media centre in dublin city, which we all hope will become a reality over the next few weeks.

the forum will has been archived and will be available to listen to soon.

im happy this has happened, we attempted to push the boundaries, to experiment, to raise issues for discussion, to attempt to make a dream a reality. we did it.

by e.f.f. Fri Oct 28, 2005 18:57

in which pre-recorded material was used despite the stream being publicised as "live".

The pre-recorded material was not credited.

The pre-recorded material was partisan to one side of an issue the irish campaign group of same being a core group of the indymedia ireland collective.

Despite objections registered on the lists of indymedia ireland, you continued to publicise a public event as being one of the indymedia ireland group.

You also used the internationally registered trademark and logo of the indymedia organisation to promote your event without permission.

You are in breach of several international binding agreements, intellectual copyright law, and all you can offer is the last as usual egotistical whimper?

Dunk, you dream in your own time and space.
If seomra spraoi is your dream, "nice one", but until you get permission to involve other people's dream of nearly 9 years young man, you do not abuse your access to open source material with impunity.

It now appears you lied and misrepresented your project on the lists from the beginning. Do you have anything else to add to the record?

by reader Fri Oct 28, 2005 19:29

So, this Indymedia space, is it run and controlled by Indymedia IRL, or are SS in control of it and acting as a landlord/leaser to IMC? I am asking this because I think Indymedia expands beyond the scope of the politics of the group involved in setting up the "autonomous space", which I feel are limited, and I dont subscribe to them; and I think IMC IRL's setting up in a place like this somewhat shoves it into a box, i.e. a media source for anarchists, about anarchists, run by anarchists - which is what many other IMCs have ended up as.

by utter utter gobshite Fri Oct 28, 2005 19:49

The cyber space is agreed under the indymedia global charter, which defines the terms under which the material is published and/or to be used and the internationally binding legal agreements pursuant to same, any representation of complaints on that is handled by the electronic frontier foundation. Also defined are the priniciples of non-heirarchial and open decision making, further defined is the nature of the software architecture which must be open source and in the case of indymedia ireland is provided by Oscailt.

The only real world space referred to in this article is The Digital Hub an Irish Government initiative to create an International Digital Enterprise Area in Dublin's city centre, where a member of the collective has promoted a personal event in the name of the indymedia collective.

The digital Hub is a public space to which the public have access.
It has prior to today not been defined as "dublin's social centre".

Which concepts do you have difficulty understanding?

by reader Fri Oct 28, 2005 20:15

"The only real world space referred to in this article is The Digital Hub"

"Dunk" makes reference to a place called Seomra Spraoi, which is a new anarchist activist centre on Middle Abbey Street.

Thats what I was referring to.

by Paul Baynes Fri Oct 28, 2005 20:54

...but I'm not saying that there are no valid criticisms to be made.

Some thoughts; please read. I'm not interested in getting into any back and forth about this, by the way.

Media=plural of medium

Re: the Irish IMC:
We already have one established, fully-functioning independent medium set up: the website.

It seems clear that Dunk is trying to set up another independent medium - radio. And that's a great initiative, and the idea has my full support.

Can what he is doing and how he is doing it be criticised?
Of course.

But the comments above and general negativity on this thread does not appear constructive to my eyes.

Is there not enough division and factionalism and in-fighting among the so-called 'activist community' or Irish left/radical left or anti-capitalist movement or whatever we want to call it?

The dominant system in this country - and right around the world - will never be challenged effectively if we do not start to find a way to challenge it on the basis of common ground. We need to find the common ground that we share and go forward on that basis. These accusations that say that Dunk is pursuing a personal project etc. ignore the substantive fact that he is making an attempt to set up an independent radio station. It is perfectly clear to anyone who has followed this that the initiative was open to input from any quarter. In practical terms, it may have been difficult to get certain specific questions answered etc., but that was largely because of the fact that Dunk didn't have the answers rather than that he was unwilling to give them. And so what? At least he's trying - and he is trying, hard, and over a long period of time, to try to develop additional independent media outlets. If you want your focus to be the website, fine. But why stifle his efforts? I don't understand the unwillingness to allow him to use the indymedia logo and whatever - I fear that if we are so precious about them they will just become another brand that we control.

As for Seomra Spraoi and indymedia, the last thing we need is to generate some kind of imagined battle between the two. I am involved somewhat in both, and I am involved on the basis that each is an open group, in the sense that it allows for a diversity of views and tactics/approaches, that there is no 'party line', and that I can remain autonomous.

I am no anarchist, and I am involved in Seomra Spraoi. It is true that there are loads of anarchists involved - possibly most of the people...? But that is a result of its genesis, rather than being explicitly stated that it is an anarchist project. In the same way that the indymedia movement grew out of the anti-globalisation protests (and the content of the Irish site certainly reflects that even today), I suppose Seomra Spraoi grew out of the anarchist movement in Dublin, to some extent.

But again, I am no anarchist. And I believe that Seomra Spraoi has the potential to be more than just an anarchist space. That is not to diminish its effectiveness as an anarchist space - I don't see why it can't be utilised as an anarchist space without being EXCLUSIVELY an anarchist space. I have consistently argued that it should be as open a space as possible. But with that in mind, I have the height of respect for the anarchist activists who are involved, and though I am still emphatically NOT an anarchist, I have much more regard for anarchism as a political belief/strategy/approach than I did six months ago. I do not want to surround myself with people I agree with. What the hell is the point in that? When are you going to be challenged? When are you going to learn anything? I think that there are plenty of anarchists who have to learn that, and I have plenty of criticisms of anarchism, but I also have found much common ground with the anarchists who are involved. And I hope they would agree with me that the last thing we need is an anarchist, activist ghetto. In the same way that I would like to see the indymedia website to continue to diversify its content, I would hope that Seomra Spraoi would become an open and inclusive project which helps to build community.

As for indymedia setting up a physical space in the Seomra Spraoi centre, this would only be an exlusively anarchist indymedia centre if it was exclusively used by anarchists. I never had a vision of indymedia as a collective or a group or whatever that was interested in asserting control over anything:

Reader: "this Indymedia space, is it run and controlled by Indymedia IRL, or are SS in control of it"

My hope would be that the users are in control.

by R. Isible Fri Oct 28, 2005 21:15

All I know is that this was _announced_ as a project that was part of Indymedia Ireland. Given that I was never given an opportunity to vote on this: dunk never proposed it to me formally and gave me a chance to (dis)associate myself with it.

It's great that he's doing something, but the way in which he's done it is anything but "open". It's a far cry from any sort of anarchist organising that I'm familiar with and looks a lot more like the activities of a certain party.

I find the genesis of this completely confusing and weird and can't understand half of what's written by dunk in his apparently provocative and hostile emails.

Indymedia Ireland /is/ a brand, if you like, in the same way in which Paul Baynes is a brand. I doubt if you'd like it if I started associating your name with all sorts of things that you didn't want it associated with.

There's a mechanism for Dunk to propose this formally: he's even been to some of the meetings (and as regards meetings being recent I remember meeting Dunk 3 years ago at an Indymedia meeting). He's chosen not to do that and instead to push this on his own.

Not very impressive, not fraternal, not consensual, not sensible and not likely to be succesful.

by Jon Glackin Fri Oct 28, 2005 21:31

To echo Paul's sentiments I too feel that Dunks efforts have been viewed wrongly as something of a negative input.

Dunk for quite a while has put a lot of time and effort in recent projects with the best interests of Indymedia at the heart of which. Dunk has been very open as to the aspiritions of the radio project having read and followed his recent communications within lists, on the site and in real world discussions.

I believe actions and hard work such as Dunks should be congratulated and encouraged not derided and dismissed out of hand. To me Dunk's recent work symbolises what Indymedia should be and is all about. I have the utmost of respect for all who contribute and maintain Indymedia here in Ireland. Not for nothing is it one of the busiest and most popular sites in Ireland where activists can communicate and share information.

I look forward to the day when there are 100s of Dunkys contributing as much time and effort to the site. If there is to be a so called 'dictatorship of the doers', Dunks ideas and actions should thus be examined in a positive light!

Old Chinese Proverb:
'Tis easier to light a candle than curse the darkness'

by pro-dunk - critical, but dont want to fight about it Fri Oct 28, 2005 22:47

I think what Dunk does is great and his efforts today are to be congratuated.... but....

He brought this argument onto himself when he called this an 'Indymedia Ireland Project' (or words implying as much) when he had been warned by many not to.

ALL he had to do was call it...
'a project by Indymedia Ireland volunteers'
...and no one would have complained.

yes it is a 'dictatorship of the doers' and 95% of the time on this website good work does get recognised.
So, Dunk do what you do best, but do not misrep other people's efforts and do not appear to hijack things and all should be well.

And Dunk, if you read through past comments on this thread, other threads and on various lists, you will know that people have been saying this for a long time.

by dunk Sat Oct 29, 2005 14:07

anarchy night
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71636

improv flyer made on eve of live stream at anarchy night

darklight symposium, views from the stream source

darklight equipment for the day

the gaf, the seomra spraoi, second node in the network

setting up the equipment in the seomra spraoi - rough and ready

by dunk Sat Oct 29, 2005 14:13

.

doors of the social centre open up, speakers on, computers hooked up, heads turning from the street

the network age comes to the seomra spraoi

chatting to people on the steps, more heads turning

imc-ie projected into the physical space

view from above

by sitting at the regulation 45-65cm from my computer monitor Sat Oct 29, 2005 15:13

as it is projected into the physical space of my livingroom. One thing I've learnt from this is ; if imc doesn't get through the phonelines [or wifi] and via the computer to (a) the screen (b) the speakers
(c) the printer : I don't get to verify it [inydmedia ireland] is _really there_. I've spent many hours now testing the hypothesis.
The most interesting experiment i am pleased to tell the ladies and gentlemen of the academy about occured at half past seven this morning. Prior to engaging my computer (a normal household device bought on hire purchase from a reputable near city provider which shares a car park with IKEA ) the normal way [plugging it in and throwing the switch] I disconnected the screen, printer and speakers. The machine stalled on the iniciation, and the normal beeping noises were not heard from the speakers. But, and this I believe is worthy of attention, the machine "knew".
At eight o'clock I and several of my assistants (thanks for the development grant!) following the precise instructions in the user's manual re-assembled the computer re-connecting the screen, printer and speakers. A message was seen on the monitor confirming that the computer had detected the absence of what was described as "hardware".

I shall continue with my investigations and update accordingly-

by dunk Sat Oct 29, 2005 15:46

you can see the darklight blog here
http://darklightfestival.blogspot.com/

and a post related to imc-ie from darklight
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18231275&postID=113049031829124892

by metalworker Sat Oct 29, 2005 15:56

And who is responsible for "the second node"?
Is that a "squat"? Its described as being a "social centre" and in previous comments that it had been opened by anarchists and was a new anarchist centre :- why? When did it start its history as a social centre? Did anarchists open it? Is there a non-heirarchial collective or assembly? If it is not "squatted" then how is the rent paid? Are the public free to propose events or use? Or are they subject to some type of vetting such as in the first node?
Is this a use of the word "node" by Dunk an architectural one (such as he used for a long time on the EASA site?) or is it meant to be understood in other senses? Are the words "indymedia ireland" different when Dunk uses them? Is Dunk's understanding of an "anarchist social centre" the same as everyone else's?

by listener Sat Oct 29, 2005 16:08

Is Duncan going to retract the claim that he's the only one doing anything for indymedia in Ireland even in light of his high quality putput recently,? ( See how I do that)
Is he going to acknowledge the advice given to him numerous times without repeating the insult in his next sentence.
Interesting last sentence in section 6 http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72690&condense_comments=false#comment126098

by RobbieS - Indymedian Sun Oct 30, 2005 00:43 robbiesin at gmail dot com

I understand and share Dunk’s excitement about the potentiial for independent radio networks and have an affinity with the feelings expressed in the mp3 discussion between himself and Eoin.

I do however, have problems with this particular event (even not having heard it yet). If productive discussion is what the symposium was aabout/after, a good place to start would’ve been on the indymedia newswire. No need for live-streaming then.

I suspect this wasn’t a runner though, because it was more than their job’s worth – i.e., indymedia is voluntary. Darklight’s lack of engagement with indymedia on this discursive level, even while the event was being advertised on this site, is either due to disrespect, or to a lack of awareness of the power of digital media (the very subject of their supposed ellumination).

That sense of disrespect was further exhibited by the refusal to play any audio file from indymedia when the live streaming wasn’t live.

Also, setting up a blog with a gatekeeper to discuss debates that most people couldn’t access is re-inventing the wheel. Once more, why wasn’t it on the indy newswire?

BTW: ‘streaming’ is probably a more accurate term for this type of netcast, since a great proportion of net-streams are normally pre-recorded (even if it’s just music on radio stations). As for re-broadcasting audio files from indymedia – I doubt (judging by radio.indymedia mailing list) that any audio publisher cares where the stuff is heard, once it’s copyleft at least.

It would be nice to have printed contexts given, and even accreditation, but this can’t be guaranteed with community radio using downloads for instance, so I guess people are happy to recognize that the issues under report/analysis are more important than the author of the mp3/wav.

Back to the crux of my comment: I think the advertisement of professionals’ events on indymedia.ie srutinised; not stopped necessarilly, but at least, respond to examination or questioning underneath their free ad. I’m still curious as to who paid for Darklight (speakers and facilitators; not including Dunk who volunteered).

I've left out procedural, indentity and access issues here, and for what it's worth, I'll put my opinion re same on the Bzzzt thread when I find it.

Sufficeth to say here, that what Dunk has done is inspirational, despite the justifiable (i.e., impersonal) criticisms.

by spraoi-er Tue Nov 01, 2005 18:45

hi, we are (or will be very soon) paying rent for the social centre. The money is coming from standing orders and fundraising events. It is not an anarchist centre but a non commercial space in a commercial city. People are very welcome to put on events once it is properly open, work is still needed and help would be appreciated, there are people there at the weekends working on it. There is a lot of potential for seomra spraoi if people are willing to give it a chance.

by dunk Tue Nov 01, 2005 19:15

just to let you know there are screenings this thursday in the social centre, and they are about social centres
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72753
theres also a live webcast for you to listen to and participate in
live webcast: Variable Media-lecture by Lev Manovich
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72752

regarding all this, not claiming that imc-ie are doing nothing, they are, loads, its growing, nearly 4million hits last month- wow

ive my problems with some aspects of the network i do stuff to remedy that. im attemting to be proactive and constructive. i do believe in trying things to test them before slating them or saying it will never work or there is no point to it.

the social centre is a project for the city, there is much "ghettoization" when it comes to the dublin activist community, with the social centre up and running it is a real chance to change all that, we have already good support from passers by over the last while

re this discussion;l i didnt follow proper procedure as it was outlined by recent email from chekov
"some indymedians are pissed off with dunk not going through any of indymedia's decision making mechanisms before advertising an indymedia 'branded' event. I don't expect that there will be any prolonged squabbling
about this and the solution is as simple as Dunk
agreeing that, in future, he will use the standard '1
of imc.ie' 'branding' that everybody else uses, or
else propose the project at one of our meetings or on
the editorial list if he wants the collective to
support the project. "

im still not clear who is allowed call themselves '1
of imc.ie' and ive broughnt this up in conversation with imc-ie editors before - i just introduced myself to darklight as someone who works a bit with the imc-ie network- the posts i sent were to imc-ireland lists, not editorial lists. so maybe from this ive learned a bit more about how to do things properly.
im sorry for upset, still glad it happened, think it will definately lead to further pushing of imc-ie boundaries

regarding robbie s's questions, i agree, no one from darklight has responded here on imc-ie to answer questions, ill email them again, so your arguments i think are well founded.
unfortunately i didnt get to hear most of the symposium as i was trying to sort all the things we did sort. i think they are archiving it

i still think that if people have problems with forums like this they should approach them directly and take them on on their own doorstep.

anyway plenty to talk about in the real world, tomorow and thursday should be interesting

by iosaf Tue Nov 01, 2005 21:31

From November 7th Barcelona indymedia will broadcast on stream media on various themes every monday afternoon about tea-time. The technology will probably have its switches flicked by the same people behind "network23bcn" who have done lots of stuff before such as EuroMayday2005, and lock it up safely afterwards in the most culturally diverse little barrio in the central city. Many catalans of the mountain or coastal variety might feel their "imc-bcn" is different from that barrio. Not all of the previous efforts of these people (who you'd think were indymedia people) got the "(((i)))" logo. & they didn't try and say it did. This next project does though.., which is why it gets a feature article on imc bcn and gets "imc-bcn" in the author line. http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display/212573/index.php Obviously there are things to be learnt by all. Not all imc collectives, assemblies, or fellow travellers in Europe have the physical concentration of contributors to readily support a collective radio effort. Which is why the association between radio and imc in Europe has been confined to only a few "very wide band sites" with obvious emphasis placed on *issue and not infrequently *particular community. Thus i know as a resident of Barcelona, that the forthcoming (((i))) radio initiative will plausibly be true to the collectives' thoughts on - *issues and *a cyber-community. But that cyber-community is not only found in "social centres", where you find people who read or want to read, produce or want to produce "indymedia material". Which is why I'm telling you about it. You "tune in" to the streamer things, (they're oh so! easy and cool/fun) every monday after November 7th and you get to learn "catalan/castellano/esperanto/english" a-t-t-i-t-u-d-e. [spellt with an "@"]

__________________________________________

Now :- I think indymedia.ie needs a radio list :-)

by redjade Tue Nov 01, 2005 23:39

ditto what iosaf said and...

i wanna get back to this Indy.ie radio thing in the coming weeks. (along with the shomra spree (sp??) thang)

I got some project ideas coming from budapest i need to talk over with the heads here and then thow those ideas at the heads over there in Ír (ireland) and then maybe connect the heads together and see what happens.

will write more about this when I have more time.

keep the f@ith

by Paul Baynes Wed Nov 02, 2005 14:02

Thanks for the response, R Isible.

I suppose the difference is that Paul Baynes the brand, if you must look at it like that, represents me and me only, whereas indymedia, in my view, should not be something that is limited and narrow and restrictive.

by seedot - 1 of IMC Wed Nov 02, 2005 14:27

"im still not clear who is allowed call themselves '1of imc.ie' " - from Dunk

Personally I think anybody can call themselves 1 of IMC, although possibly the global principles of unity could have an impact. I would also distinguish between Indymedia and the variants in use by the collective that maintains this website (imc.ie, imc ireland, indymedia.ie).

If a group was established that called themselves Indymedia Cavan, there is no requirement for them to affiliate to the network through any existing group in ireland although an unwillingness to engage with an existing collective would probably be questioned at the global level. But I would not criticise an Indymedia Cavan audio stream for using the 'brand' - unless I felt that the group did not conform to the ideas of what indymedia is as expressed in the network wide principles of unity.

This is not the issue here. The issue here is the adoption of the name that has been established and used by an existing group without seeking to engage with that group and formalise this as an Indymedia Ireland project. This was then followed by persistent demands (the tone was much stronger than requests) that this was recognised as an historic first audio stream from indymedia ireland both in the branding used in Dunks beloved 'real world' * and on the website maintained by the collective who had already expressed doubts about the project and an unwillingness to have it as an indymedia.ie project.

Everybody is Indymedia.

but "Indymedia derives from...the self-organization of autonomous collectives that recognize the importance in developing a union of networks. "

"All IMC's......... shall organize themselves collectively and be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is transparent to its membership. "

So, everybody is indymedia, working together. Dunk needs to think about collectivism vs. individualism.




* Real World: I would question whether the activist space that Dunk presents as the real world is anymore real to the vast majority of people than this website. At times it can be much more difficult to access.

by Paul Baynes Wed Nov 02, 2005 14:57

Just to clarify, I don’t think that there was an attempt to use the indymedia ‘brand’, if we must use that word, by any ‘existing group’, as Seedot says. It wasn’t an existing group – this was a project that Dunk has been trying to get off the ground over a sustained period. In my view, this could have fitted in with the ‘1 of IMC’ tag that is being referred to, if there had been better communication around this event.

The radical radio project was not a Seomra Spraoi initiative: it just took place in the putative social centre. Dunk was trying to get support from Seomra Spraoi in a similar way that he was trying to get support from Indymedia Ireland.

And I do think that Dunk did seek to engage with the existing group (indymedia). He may not have done this very effectively, but in my understanding, it was clear that the intent was to set up an inclusive and open project. As Seedot says, the difficulty is that Dunk was seen to be making demands on the indymedia collective.

To resolve these kinds of problems, I do think it is vital that we look for the common ground and to go forward on that basis. I initially said that the response to Dunk’s efforts was unproductive because those efforts were being undermined in a very negative way. Seedot and R Isible’s comments are far more substantive and constructive than the original anonymous criticisms that were made.

by dunk Wed Nov 02, 2005 17:05

read the principles, thanks for that seedot and clarity in outlining what the problem was. i now realise that my actions were not correct in how the collective works, if i had worded it a "one of imc-ie" then all would have been ok. im still glad we did it, i hope it encourages more activity and exploration into this area; hooking up social centre(s) to tune in and participate with each others radio shows, link them to live broadcast radio around planet (AMARC network) with the result of more and more people around planet finding out about indymedia and from that participating in the network; and all else that is possible to achieve........

ive learned how things work better, things i should have been clearer about previous.
am i right in thinking then that a proposal has to be sent to editorial lists and that a mail with a proposal for a project sent to imc-ireland lists is not enough, i thought it was and seeing as i got no blocks and 1 mail of encouragement i went with it.
glad that all this has opened up a discussion which makes things clearer, sorry for opening up this dialogue in this way.

it is an exciting time for imc-ie, hopefully soon to have a physical space for stuff that can only add to what imc-ie is already.
other thread with discussion relevant to this discussion is found here
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72481&condense_comments=false#comment126372

see you later

by dunk Thu Nov 03, 2005 15:18

DATA:BASE , Art and Technology Symposium and Fair post from Apr 9 2003
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=42130&search_text=darklight
and calls for deletion for nothing more than advertising by the DATA group

by RobbieS Fri Nov 04, 2005 01:17

The live-stream of Darklight wasn’t a first for indymedia, because it wasn’t an indymedia live-stream. The only thing one indymedian did, was to advertise the event and attempt to promotes it on this site.

I think the organizers and speakers were paid.
I know that not one of them engaged with indymedia.ie.
I would like to know who provided the funding – not that indymedia would get anything for the advertising.

brand?
No-one can stop the use of the indymedia ‘brand-name’ by anyone, unless the collective is willing to litigate, and even then…is it worth it? Not even in national terms.

Personally, I would prefer to see the name kept for the sites. Let other like-minded projects affiliate if they want – by practice rather than words.

If radio stations are getting funded on the basis that they produce their own public service material, there is a grey area in their using indymedia stuff instead, and diverting resources elsewhere. Ther’s no policing copyleft – it’s down to trust.

I would love to see more indymedia audio on FM, but terrestrial radio is on the way out, and this is where the near future is – online sa basis.

I first heard Chckov suggest that there be a live-stream facility on the site. When that day comes, there may need to be a brand for the outside, so that people know they can hear events live for free on the net. Advertisement of such events on indymedia.ie won’t have to be called indymedia events, because it will be self-evident.

I can see US, yes WE opening a 24-hour streaming channel using indyaudio. There’s already enough Irish stuff, but we could suppliment it with radio.indymedia.org stuff too. This way, people don’t need to go looking for the stuff, and can just have it on in the office, in the car, at home or wherever.

Deciding what to live stream can be put to a vote on the newly revived audiolist when it re-emerges. In the same way that three votes from existing editors decides what stories are to be featured, something similar could apply for the programme scheduling – with weight still given to those who are willing and able to do the work (audio editors if you like).

There oculd be a separation of editorial powers, or division of labour - technical, text/feature, audio, video – even arts.

Paul Baynes, Seedot and R. Isible, good to see your three-way discussion is transparent anyway :-).

by (((i))) Fri Nov 04, 2005 02:28

just one clarification, the (((i))) brand is protected by international law, & has lawyers to protect it far beyond "ireland's collective", and even ones who just finished over-seeing acceptance of creative commons to european law and seeing to it the neccesary adjustments are made.
Lawyers sue, thats their work. You abuse the brand you're going to get sued. By the same sort of people who sued Mc Donalds and Exxon.

by dunk Fri Nov 04, 2005 14:53

darklight group emailed to let them know about this discussion, i rang a few days back
anyway
email:
arising from last weeks streaming from the darklight festival, there
has been a live stream (well documented and controversial for not using
proper mechanism in wrongly stating an "indymedia ireland" project), a
film made, questions and criticisms posed about and to indymedia ireland
and darklight, screening of the film. we hope some of the darklight
group can answer some of the questions raised and also tell us where
things stand with the archiving of the symposium. and i suppose a summing up
of how things went, their view of the stream project from "some of
imc-ie" and what ever they would like to contribute to this ongoing open
discussion, which is very relevant to that which was being discussed in
the symposium.

the stream eventually worked, we set up the social centre and it
successfully restreamed and braodcast in real time the discussion, although
prior discussion had happened as to how people not physically there
might still participate, it did not fully come off; the blog could not be
opened for some time and there was no option of ringing in to have
questions asked during question time.

all in all though, it was an experiment with technology, some
boundaries were pushed, it is the start of more adventures and experiments from
"some of imc-ie".
___________________________________

and in response to robbie:

id add here that those of us from imc-ie did approach darklight with
the idea and approach them with the tek system (streamerp2p), they did
install it, set up the channel, we tried to inform people globally
through various networks that the stream was on, we encouraged people to
participate and we tried to further facilitate that global discussion.

and see this post to see what other imc's are doing about radio and audio
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71892&condense_comments=false#comment126681

by RobbieS - ((())) Sat Nov 05, 2005 01:26

Yeh, right…i! Imagine the unparallelled PR of global indymedia hiring its Goliath barristers to sue a David Meantwell.

The links Dunk posted related to Radio Urbana in Illinois and Perth indymedia radio. Both seem to be availing of our collectively owned FM space.

Although netcasting is the way to go, it'd be a good idea to do a weekly indymedia Ireland programme. This isn't just about getting the people to do the reading and producing (I'd volunteer on the second count), it's about getting radio stations to acquiesce.

by streaming from the gaff!!! Thu Oct 20, 2011 13:13

vid now online http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8_s2tqLk4

And how things have progressed, now we stream from square to square as part of the global OCCUPY movement, currently underway:

Streaming today: We got the fucking WMD's (Weapons of Mass Diffusion)
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100645&comment_limit=0&...84260

For me, being 1 of the many many indignados of my town, Barcelona, in the occupied square Placa Catalunya, with many thousands more, sitting there and watching the screen, watching live as we all waved and roared hello or hola to our sisters and brothers in the occupied Syntagma square outside the Parliament in Athens, Greece, and them roaring and waving back... That will be a memory i will always cherish, its simple, we could have been doing it for years, but we havent, BUT, now we are using it... from P2P to S2S, from Peer to Peer (Initial streaming experiments, person to person, or device to device) to Square to Square... These are our WMD's... We all know the lies sprung to rape and rob Iraq, but come and get us now "We have WMD's... Weapons of Mass D.I.F.F.U.S.I.O.N....

WE ARE WINNING...

Caption: Video Id: 9Q8_s2tqLk4 Type: Youtube Video
streaming from the gaff!!! vid now online

by Dunk Mon Jul 16, 2018 23:59

Monday at 6pm (new york time): tune in to this conversation between Barcelona Mayor Ada Colau and Alexandria Ocasio via streaming, live from NYC! https://www.facebook.com/events/199690097550912/ … #FearlessCities

Democracy Now! page stream was bit dodgy, the FB stream is working better https://www.facebook.com/democracynow/videos/1015649745...8279/