Audio from Parnell Square before the riot

by Sharon - Individual Fri Mar 24, 2006 17:25

I asked you to back-up a statement you made earlier - " And Sharon RSF are a sectarian organisation, some of their members have carried out the sectarian murders of protestants. "

You reply with a link (http://irelandsown.net/CIRA.html) which does not mention RSF as having been involved in 'the sectarian murders of Protestants' . And you claim that link as your 'proof' ! Is an incorrect link all you have , 'Sam X' ?
By the way - if you click on that link and read that page in full , you will find the following , which you 'failed' to notice - ' (according. to the Gardai) ' .

Can you find me a link to the following , please , 'Sam X' -
' Donegal Gardai never planted any munitions , according to Sam X ' . Because I would place as much credence in that link as I did in your link .

Sharon .

by Sam 7 Fri Mar 24, 2006 16:01

Rubbish. The PIRA carried out the enniskillen bombing. not even Jim Cusack claims that this unit later went to the CIRA. "Since 1994, the Continuity IRA has conducted sporadic assassinations and bombings, mostly aimed at Protestant targets." This is untrue, unless you count the British Army and RUC/PSNI as Protestantant targets.

by Sam X Fri Mar 24, 2006 15:55

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9239/

The group that was later established as the Continuity IRA is thought to have carried out a notorious 1987 bombing in the Northern Ireland town ofEnniskillen that killed eleven Protestants; experts say the IRA leadership saw the attack as a tactical mistake. Since 1994, the Continuity IRA has conducted sporadic assassinations and bombings, mostly aimed at Protestant targets.

http://irelandsown.net/CIRA.html
And, although it has since emerged publicly that CIRA played a role in the Omagh bombing, the group continues to refuse to admit to its part. Moreover, the CIRA is thought to be small in number and not well-organised. Thus, its refusal to admit its role in Omagh, and its tendency to take credit for successful RIRA attacks, has further dampened CIRA's credibility.

by Sharon - Individual Fri Mar 24, 2006 00:13

...see the above two posts , 'Sam X' .
Then post (again) about "standing corrected ... " .
Then give me a name/more information/URL link or whatever to verify the following claim you made -
" ..... some of their (RSF) members have carried out the sectarian murders of protestants. "

As I stated to you earlier - " your attempt to label us as 'sectarian' takes from the rest of your argument ."

Sharon .

by risible Thu Mar 23, 2006 23:23

Yup, and in fact my transcript reflects that. The only person identified by you in the piece as RSF is Des Dalton. (Nice work by the way! What equipment did you use, especially mic?)

by Kev Branno Thu Mar 23, 2006 23:06

The man who said the marchers should march in Birmingham etc was NOT a member of R.S.F. Only the first speaker who I introduce as a member of R.S.F is a member. The first speaker is the Only person on the piece who can be called an R.S.F member because he is an R.S.F spokesperson.....

by Sam X Thu Mar 23, 2006 21:32

They're British? Go to Birmingham! Go up to London, lot's of cities! Go to the new city in Lisburn, go to the city in Newry, go to Belfast, why come to Dublin? - Sorry yes it is in the transcript. So Tank Girl and Sharon do you not accept that this is a sectarian statement? Saying that Irish people from the North are British! and that they should not have the right to march in Dublin - every person on the Love Ulster march is an Irish citizen. And Sharon RSF are a sectarian organisation, some of their members have carried out the sectarian murders of protestants.

by Sharon - Individual Thu Mar 23, 2006 21:02

" by Sam X Thu Mar 23, 2006 19:17
You should listen to the audio again Tank Girl the above transcript is not complete a comment is made about people being British and they should march in British cities or in the North and not in Dublin. Leave the events of that day to one side are you seriously trying to say that RSF are not a sectarian organisation? Get real.... "

As an RSF member (in Clondalkin) I can tell you , 'Sam X' , that not one person in this Cumann is anyway interested at all in a colleagues religion , colour or 'class' . The same goes for RSF members from this country and abroad that I meet on a regular basis (ie Ard Fheis , Bodenstown, Bundoran , Christmas Swim , other Commemorations etc) . Dis-agree on a political basis with us , by all means , if you must - but your attempt to label us as 'sectarian' takes from the rest of your argument .

Sharon .

by R. Isible Thu Mar 23, 2006 20:49

It IS complete. It's right there in front of you. Thanks for taking the time to read, listen and think about this before spiralling off into a pointless bickering match based on pre-conceived positions.

by Sam X Thu Mar 23, 2006 20:17

You should listen to the audio again Tank Girl the above transcript is not complete a comment is made about people being British and they should march in British cities or in the North and not in Dublin. Leave the events of that day to one side are you seriously trying to say that RSF are not a sectarian organisation? Get real....

by B Thu Mar 23, 2006 19:47

Is it just my P.C or is this not working for everyone??

by Tank Girl Thu Mar 23, 2006 14:33

The only Fascists and Sectarians around were those from the Love Ulster group. You cannot be unaware that the BNP and other slimeballs in England and Scotland support Love Ulster. Willie Frazer flaunts his Sectarianism, he praises Billy Wright and says that Loyalist Sectarian killers should never have been in prison.

by rooster Thu Mar 23, 2006 14:13

oh yeah and look where it got them!
If the parade had went ahead peacefully it would have been ignored, but now the rights on the Northern population has been trampled and these facist sectarian thugs have smashed up their own city and shown the World their true colours.

by Tank Girl Thu Mar 23, 2006 13:46

'especially the comment they are British and they should march in Birmingham or Belfast or Newry etc'

So how come this does not come across in the transcript above? Still cant see how you can work out that these (mythical?) slogans were chanted by RSF members when they only made up a small proportion of the crowd.

I am not a RSF member or supporter, politically I think they are out of time but at least they had the guts to call a protest on this issue. No need for you to smear them as being sectarian.

by rooster Thu Mar 23, 2006 13:27

This is complete tripe, let me say this one last time NO-ONE, has a monopoly on suffering, NO-ONE, but does that mean ALL demos are to be banned, what about Bloody Sunday commemorations? They make no mention of the deaths of the security forces, republicans therefore have no monopoly on suffering whichputs them on an equal footing with Loyalists/Unionists.

by R. Isible Wed Mar 22, 2006 20:27

Interviewer: On the 25th April a loyalist "Love Ulster" parade was planned to take place on O'Connell St. I went along on the day to talk to republican protestors like Republican Sinn Fein's Des Dalton.

[background traffic sounds]

Interviewer: I'd just like to ask why you're here today and why you're out this morning protesting?

Des Dalton: Well, we've three basic reasons for being here. Number one, the group FAIR and Willie Frazer, the people who've organised this march are attempting to portray this as some sort of [edit?] ... that they, the loyalist community have some sort of monopoly on suffering ... we would say that the facts belie this. I think the people that Willie Frazer represents and the political groups that he is giving voice to have murdered a thousand uninvolved, innocent nationalits over the last 35 to 40 years as a matter of policy ... and that's the kind of ideology that's being represented by this march today. This march is basically... it's an exercise in triumphalism.

Interviewer: Later on that day I spoke to an ordinary Dubliner who was in the past a victim of Loyalist terrorism.

Dubliner: This is a loyalist organisation, this is a loyalist organised event in Dublin. The last time they organised an event in Dublin they were driving car bombs ... it's the same people. They pay tribute on their website. It's an absolute disgrace, and that the Gardai are facilitating it in the manner that they are is an insult to the taxpayers of this city.

Interviewer: And what age were you when you were hurt?

Dubliner: I was in my early teens

Interviewer: Were you?

Dubliner: Yeah, don't let it [...?] you'll have no hair!

Interviewer: And what happened to yourself?

Dubliner: I was just thrown to the ground, but the real idea is how just two minutes either way, I mean, let's be very clear on this, I'm no different than anyone else, people have suffered a hell of a lot more and the suffering doesn't belong to anyone. Nobody has a monopoly on suffering and nobody has a monopoly on afflicting. But the reality that we're talking about is that the bombings in Dublin were organised and facilitated by the British government. That's the reality and this information has to come out. And the most Dublin people don't know this because elements within the media, that may not necessarily include yourself, or may include yourself, are compliant in going to these little press conferences, being handed your statements and taking them and carrying them as you've
been handed them. Because you're getting the right champagne and the right meal.

Interviewer: Tensions began to rise as the Gardai moved in to break up the counter demonstration at the Parnell monument. [sound of crowd chanting in background "The I- the I- the IRA". Whistles. Loudhailer "... march, and we oppose it totally and we are going to do our best to stop loyalist feet from marching down O'Connell St." Boos. Whistling.]

Dubliner: I'm sure you can hear in the background here, some party tunes breaking up ... beginning to warm up. These are bands, have a look at the emblems on their drums. These people ... this is Armagh ... this is the area where Billy Wright and people like, went on a slaughtering campaign of Catholics, of innocent people /because/ of their religion, no other reason. So as I say nobody has a monopoly on suffering or affliction, but these people... These people are coming down here, it's coat trailing. It's triumphalism. It's symbolism, that's what it is, they're rubbing it in people's faces on O'Connell St. They're British? Go to Birmingham! Go up to London, lot's of cities! Go to the new city in Lisburn, go to the city in Newry, go to Belfast, why come to Dublin? Well, that's just the end of the [????] confrontation.

[Sound of protest again. Loudhailer "We are going to stop this [Orange?] march going down Dublin. We are ready to stop them."]

Interviewer: By 11:15 a very large crowd of republicans had gathered at the Parnell monument and the Centra shop opposite. Meanwhile on O'Connell St. workers had downed tools and left shovels, axes and bricks in plentiful supply. The scene was set for the heavy rioting which would follow.

[sound of crowd, more dispersed sounding than earlier] ??? down in Centra ??? up against the wall. Loyalist at the top of the road. It's going to fucking riot. [more crowd in background, booming sounds, crowd sound increases, people shouting about "getting out of here".]

Man1 (dub accent): "??? just around the corner there, a hundred yards around the corner the bomb in Parnell St. went off."

Man2 (dub accent): "We're letting Shankhill butchers fecking do us again"

Man3: ???

Interviewer: Many feel the Garda response on the day was inadequate. Some Gardai were heard joking about the riots.

Garda1 [country accent]: At least we're dry. We're not wet. At least's not pissing rain. [laughter]

Man3 [interviewer perhaps?]: Nice day for a riot!

Garda1: This is it. [laughter] You want to pick a day weatherise. [laughter]

Man3: Thanks lads. Take care.

Garda1: OK lads

Interviewer: As the rioting intensified along O'Connell St. Gardai forced me toward the Garden of Remembrance where I witnessed an elderly man on crutches being manhandled by Gardai as he refused to move from the centre of the road.

[sound of crowd quite large]
Voices shouting "leave him alone, leave him alone","hey, hey, hey, he's on fucking crutches. Come on. He's on crutches."
Man4: [Garda? generic accent, not as strongly Dub sounding as crowd]: "relax, relax", "will you move back there please sir?"
Man5: "I live around the corner"
Man4: "I know"
Man5: "No, I can go whatever way I like ... my own country"
[confused morasse of sounds]
Man5: "Get your hands off me ... "
Man6 [garda?]: Come on, keep moving.
Interviewer: Oh fuck.
Man7 [Dub accent, shouting]: Come on, and move.

Interviewer: As widespread rioting broke out across the city members of the LOVE Ulster parade were forced to get back on their buses and return home, although
a small tokenistic protest took place outside the Dail.

[sound of football-like chanting and clapping]

by Clearly Wed Mar 22, 2006 19:44

Because the interviewer identified the individual in the recording as a rep for RSF and RSF members were among the crowd do you think they abstained from the chanting?

by Tankgirl Wed Mar 22, 2006 18:28

Seeing as this is an audio recording how can you tell that it is RSF members who are chanting these slogans?

by Clearly Wed Mar 22, 2006 18:18

You can also clearly hear lots of sectarian chanting and the RSF comments are sectarian especially the comment they are British and they should march in Birmingham or Belfast or Newry etc

by guydebordisdead Wed Mar 22, 2006 17:00

This piece is very interesting you can clearly hear a garda joking that it's "a nice day for a riot" also interesting to hear someone with a megaphone announcing "we will stop this march".

Nice piece.