Update on Afghan Hunger Strike :Day 5

by Support the Hunger Strikers! Thu May 18, 2006 11:11

Would you please stop sowing illusions in the Constitution. You must be idiots to think that there is any basis to claiming asylum on the grounds of what is written in De Valera's Constitution. You people probably also think that the UN is a source for good!? The real nature of the UN (which is a collection of capitalist governments) has been shown today when that UN official said he wants them to be sent to Afghanistan. We can win this dispute. There is a need for action that shows public support. There is no point in being happy with small vigils. We need large demonstrations of support, particularly from School Students.

by anon Thu May 18, 2006 11:29

http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=21028

"I have in the past been confronted with threats of hunger strikes, suicide, self harm and the like. It has been our invariable policy to refuse to be persuaded by such tactics," McDowell told the Dail

McDowell said that on the basis of the names available to his officials none of the protestors had been issued with a deportation order. He said immigration police believe one of those involved in the protest has been granted refugee status and one has been awarded leave to remain.

Since 2003, McDowell said, 312 Afghans had sought asylum in Ireland.

"It is emphatically not the case that anyone who travels from Afghanistan to Ireland by whatever means -- and there are no direct flights -- can demand to remain in Ireland simply by pointing to the disturbed or dangerous conditions which may obtain in parts of Afghanistan.

"If that were the case, the Irish state would be obliged to accommodate any person claiming to be an Afghan who chose to come here," he said.

Are they ultimately going to be deported to Afghanistan or shifted to the UK as these guys (Somali, Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan, Iranian) were last week to spend even more time in stuck hostels not allowed to work or live properly, and go through the UK equally dire sytem
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=...14018
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=...13927
Who knows?

Where are the relevant NGOs on this and the Irish and newcomers who work with them, they always seem very quiet on issue like this? Amnesty statement is a bit weak? http://www.amnesty.ie/content/view/full/5865/

Church occupations continue in Belgium, begin in France
http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2006b/051906/...o.htm

Todays Western hero, was yesterdays reject. Afghan Christian convert rejected from Belgium in 2000.
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchan...lgium

by chris - the unmanageables Thu May 18, 2006 12:57

Words from the hunger-strikers.

Indymedia was not allowed access to the Press Conference at St Patrick's cathedral at 11am
this morning. A journalist who attended brought out her notes and played the audio of the conference. these comments were by some of the young hunger strikers who are refuting the comments attributed to Minister mc Dowell, regarding the issue of manipulation of young men by older protestors.
These men stated that they were volunteers. One (unidentifyed) said that he his death through the strike is something that he was aware of. They state that "our social worker is not helping us, they speak to us about going home and that we do not need to be here" He then said that the social workers were not allowing them to talk to the media, but that they would like to.

samandar Kaan says that the young men are not being used, they are aware that they can leave at any point but are committed to their cause. they are aware that they do not have to be there but will continue.

Aty 10.55 am, all journalists except indymedia were allowed access to the men. the cathedral authorities stated that only accredited media carrying a press card would be admitted.

+ Audio coming later on

by anon Thu May 18, 2006 13:11

Dear friend

Attached please find the press release Integrating Ireland has put out
on the Afghan Hunger Strike in St. Patricks Cathedral

The group supporting the men has asked us to let you know the following

-There will be a Rally on Saturday 20 May at 2pm outside St. Patrick's
Cathedral. Dublin. They ask you to encourage people to attend.

-A picket will take place at Michael McDowells Office on Friday 19 May
at 6.30pm (The Triangle Ranelagh)

-To please visit the ongoing Vigil outside the Church.

To ask you and your organisations:
-To contact your local TDs, representatives, organisations and
religious leaders to lobby the government in support of the issues.

-To ask your organisation to issue statements or send on letters of
support to the men (f you are not able to go by you can post them to us
and we will bring them over to the Church)

-To organise local events or Vigils

******************************************************************************************************************

PRESS RELEASE

Integrating Ireland

17, May, 2006

Integrating Ireland Calls on the Government to Act

Integrating Ireland today called on the Minister for Justice, Equality
and Law Reform to listen to the concerns of the men on hunger strike at
St. Patrick's Cathedral and to act in order to prevent further threat
to these men's lives. "The serious action these men have taken is
reflective of the desperation felt in their community. They fear being
deported back to Afghanistan, a country still at war, with a very poor human
rights record and currently deemed unsafe by the Department of Foreign
Affairs which advises Irish people not to travel there" stated Aki
Stavrou, director of Integrating Ireland.
"There would seem to be a contradiction here between Foreign Affairs
and Justice, Equality and Law Reform, on their perception of safety in
Afghanistan". The hunger strikers as indeed the rest of the country have
the right to know why there is apparent double-standard.
However, the real issue at hand here is the asylum process and
complimentary protection. The latter accounts for asylum seekers who do not fit
in the definition of the 1951UN Convention on Refugees Status which
allows for other forms of protection including: leave to remain on
humanitarian grounds and temporary asylum. In Ireland only the former is
actively employed and subject to the discretionary power of the Ministry for
Justice. Any processes which institutionalizes people, restricts their
freedom of movement, denies their ability to work, places no time
constraints and with an appeal process that is lacking in transparency is
unjust. What the asylum process creates is a condition of limbo, with all
the associated negative psycho-social impacts such as helplessness,
frustration and anger, which in this instance have resulted in such
desperate actions. "Its just a very sad time for people and that people
should be aware of the absolute desperation that these people are feeling at
the moment," Grainne Landers, Tralee Refugee Support Services.
We agree with the Taoiseach that the government should 'not be giving
way to threats', however this is not a threat but an appeal by a group
of desperate people and therefore we call on his government to open
dialogue with the hunger strikers, explain why it is safe for some and
unsafe for others to go to Afghanistan and until it is safe for all give an
assurance that nobody will be forcibly returned. Furthermore, we call
for the reform of the asylum process to be fair, comprehensive and
expeditious.

For further information contact: Aki Stavrou on 087-784-7310

Notes to Editors:
Integrating Ireland is an independent alliance of community and
voluntary groups, working in mutual solidarity to promote and to realise the
human rights, equality, and full integration of refugees, people seeking
asylum, migrants and immigrants in Ireland' The membership comprises
210 organisations.

This statement was put out yesterday, perhaps similar groups also made put out press releases I doubt any MSM will pick it up.

Be forceful get the Afghan men to ask you in, if you promise to repeat/report fully and exactly what they want to say .

by Revolt Thu May 18, 2006 13:24

Revolt video have been invited into cathedral for next press conference.

by anon Thu May 18, 2006 13:46

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council) on Pat Kenny May 18th

From : Pat Kenny Show on RTE Radio 1 - Broadcast on : 18-May-2006 10:02:21
This morning marks the fifth day of the hunger strike of the 41 Afghan Asylum Seekers protesting in St. Patrick’s Cathedral. They say they’d rather die in a church than go back to their deaths in Afghanistan. The situation is still at a stalemate. The Minister for Justice Michael McDowell told the Dail last night that he would not respond to such tactics, meanwhile the Irish Representative for the UNHCR spoke with the men for three hours last night trying to convince them to put their trust in the Irish Asylum Process. Pat Kenny speaks to the CEO of the Irish Refugee Council Peter O’Mahony for his views on the situation.

Pat Kenny: For the 41 Afghan Asylum Seekers protesting in St. Patrick’s Cathedral this morning marks the fifth day of their hunger strike. They say they’d rather die in a church than go back to their deaths in Afghanistan. The situation is still at a stalemate. The Minister for Justice Michael McDowell told the Dail last night that he would not respond to such tactics, meanwhile the Irish Representative for the UNHCR spoke with the men for three hours last night trying to convince them to put their trust in the Irish Asylum Process. He said the system here is just and fair. So what has driven these men to take such desperate and dangerous measures and what outcome is there likely to be. On the line is Peter O’Mahony CEO of the Irish Refugee Council and we’ll be joined by Dr. Ali Salim from the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin. Eh good morning to you both.

Both: Good morning.

Pat Kenny: First of all Peter have you visited and spoken to the men?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): I have been in the Cathedral a couple of times, I’ve spoken to some of them, but I wouldn’t claim to be very well acquainted with the specifics of their cases.

Pat Kenny: Eh are you acquainted with their health situation at the moment?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Eh I was there, I was in the church the day before yesterday, so they were in a poor enough situation, some of them at that time, and every extra day can only be taking a severe toll on many of them I would fear.

Pat Kenny: People have been brought to hospital and discharged. I’m not sure whether any still remain, but eh that’s the situation with dehydration?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah and I think some of them would not have been in particularly good health at the beginning. There was one young man who as I understand it had spent some three weeks in hospital in the last couple of months, and was hospitalised again on the first night of the hunger strike, and a second time subsequently. So some would have been in poor health going in, and a situation like a hunger, and particularly a thirst strike for even the few days that most of them were consecutively on it, can only have been terribly terribly harmful.

Pat Kenny: Now the Irish Representative for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees visited the men last night, and he described their actions as unacceptable. Is that your position?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Well I would certainly think that it is unlikely to achieve what they are looking for eh and if I had been asked to advise them I wouldn’t have advised them to take this particular course of action. But clearly people take such a course of action only if they feel desperate and if they have, eh if they don’t have I suppose a trust in the system that the UN Representative and perhaps myself would feel that they should have. Eh you can only build trust eh if people see other’s around them having being consistently treated fairly, if they are confident that all cases, without exception, are being handled fairly. My position would be that the Irish Asylum System has improved immensely in the last 5 or 6 years, but it is far from perfect. There are inconsistencies, there are delays, there are situations particularly when people get to that final stage, what we call the `Leave to Remain’ section of things. When their applications can drag for what seems like an eternity. And I know of one situation for example of somebody, not an Afghan, but somebody who came in here as a minor, under the age of 18, has been in the country for some 5 years at this stage, has been facing deportation for a year and a half, effectively cant be deported because the country from which he’s fled is not a safe country, and cant accept him back, but has been reporting some 20-25 times to the immigration authorities each time with the possibility that he will in fact be thrown out of the country. So that creates a sense of distrust, it creates a sense of fear. My own perception is that nobody goes on something like a hunger and thirst strike without feeling absolutely desperate.

Pat Kenny: Em there are some countries that would win international recognition for the fact that they are unsafe, and people who flee would be entitled pretty much generally to eh asylum. Afghanistan is not one of those?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Well there isn’t any country as such that falls into that category. There are situations where Ireland and other western countries will put a stay on any deportations, so we’ve had situations in the past where nobody was being deported over a period of years to a country like Algeria, where nobody was being deported to Iraq, eh but we don’t officially have a situation where any country is entirely unsafe as per official definition. We have the opposite where countries are presumed to be safe and that applies only to a relatively small number of countries. But my understanding is that prior to the hunger strike, we had not seen fit to deport anybody to Afghanistan. I think we had not intended to do so, eh . . . .

Pat Kenny: So if we’re not doing that, what prompted this hunger strike?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Not entirely certain, I think there would have been a few things, clearly the fact that there were hunger strikes in Belgium may have influenced some, I was told and I don’t know how reliable this is, that a rumour had gone around the community that after some of them had been refused at particular stages of the system in the last two weeks, that eh deportation was about to happen, eh and that they then believed they were all at particular risk. Its very easy in a situation like this, where people are cut off from mainstream society, where they’re isolated, where rumour gathers momentum very quickly to believe that something that is not in fact about to happen, is imminent.

Pat Kenny: Em we’ve talked about the Dublin Convention on this programme before, and some of our listeners wondering eh why they would end up hear anyway? And how they could and not be deported to the first country in the Dublin Convent it says any EU boundaries they have passed over, whether it be by air by sea or by land?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah em, . . . .

Pat Kenny: And its impossible to get her, unless you come from Cuba or some place like that?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah it is difficult to get into a country, to get into any Western European country in the first instance, its also particularly difficult to get to countries at the far western end, like Britain and Ireland, eh having said that, there is nothing to suggest that any of these was currently, or more than one or two of them I think was subject to the Dublin Convention.

Pat Kenny: Is it that we’re ignoring that convention, you know, because trying to figure out which country should if they flew for example from eastern Europe, over the entire EU, landing in Ireland, eh hard to decide maybe which country you send them back to?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Well no there’s nothing to suggest that we are ignoring it, in fact the substantial or increasing of people have been transferred out of Ireland, some in fairly awful situation. I mean there was the famous case of the Iranian man who had seen fit to sew his lips together, and he was em sent out of the country, under the Dublin Convention. Relatively large numbers . . . .

Pat Kenny: And where was he sent to do you know?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): He was sent to the UK as far as I know, and the UK has deported some people to Afghanistan, again as far as I’m aware, and what you will have within the European context is you’ll have different relationships between Governments and the Governments of the particular country involved. So eh it might be more unsafe for an Algerian to be in France, because France might be trying to restore its relations with Algeria. It might be more difficult for somebody from Iraq to be in Britain because Britain is actively involved in the way there, and might not want to allow the impression that Iraq is a safe country, and the same can apply to Afghanistan or any other.

Pat Kenny: Finally I should ask you about Minister McDowell’s stance on this. He said he cant possibly give in to these kind of tactics and that would be a kind of an opening of the floodgates to people to use all sorts of PR weaponry in their quest for a particular status, wouldn’t it?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Well I think when you talk of PR weaponry the minister isn’t slow at using PR weaponry himself. And I mean to have described the hunger strike as a so-called hunger strike eh is not particularly helpful to have referred to Afghanistan as being affected by disturbances is not particularly helpful. We wouldn’t have expected the Minister to have come out and said look, on the basis of the hunger strike we are going to allow everybody to stay here. I do think we would have hoped that he would have been slightly more sensitive in the language he has used on a couple of occasions in recent days.

Pat Kenny: But the point, the principle?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): I think it would have been helpful also if he had said look the situation has been that we haven’t been deporting to Afghanistan, there was no particular expectation that we would have been doing it. That’s unrelated to the hunger strike, I think that would have given some assurance.

Pat Kenny: Hmm, but do you take his general point?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Again we wouldn’t have expected him to have take a very different stand. We know the Ministers position, I think he is quick to exaggerate the floodgates risk. There’s nothing to suggest . . . .

Pat Kenny: No but if for example, a tactic like this which is effectively an attempt at blackmail I suppose, of the processes here, to get them to treat one particular group in a way which is not the way other’s are treated. That pretty soon every group who feels maybe the same way as this Afghan group would trying to drum up stunts that would get them publicity and eh I mean this is a very risky stunt, I have to say, if it is a stunt, eh very risk one. Risking their lives, em, but still it might precipitate other activities.

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Well if it were a stunt, it would be a very risk one, having spoken to some of the guys involved, my strong sense is that they eh do not see any hope of eh being safe back in Afghanistan and for them this isn’t a stunt.

Pat Kenny: Have you been able to, by the way, figure out why they might be in danger, em, you know there are conflicting reports as to whether or not they have relatives who are involved with the Taliban, whether or not some were in fear of the Taliban, whether or not eh there were warlords who had grudges against some of these people, I just cant seem to get to the bottom of it? And any interviews that they’ve given themselves have been less than clear?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah and I certainly cant add great clarity to that. I don’t know the specifics of their individual situations, or I cant say with any certainty that all of them face equal risk. What I can say is that it would seem likely that at least some of them must surely qualify, either for refugee status here, or for leave to remain, and if that is the case, then that should happen sooner rather than later, and it would be unacceptable if any of them who were ultimately given leave to remain have had to wait for several years as it the case of somebody I dealt with just this week, not from Afghanistan arrived here in 1999, applied for asylum in that year, has only in the last month got his leave to remain, seven years on. That is an unacceptable delay, people find it intolerable in that situation, and its understandable that people em will in some situations eh take on a desperate action. I don’t think it’s the right course of action, but I can understand having spoke to them, that they do seem to fell absolutely desperate.

Pat Kenny: All right eh thank you very much Peter O’Mahony CEO of the Irish Refugee Council.
---

Breakfast with Eamonn, Newstalk 106, Wed. 17/5/2006 -
...
Peter O’Mahony Chief Executive of the Irish Refugee Council joins Eamon Dunphy to comment on the current situation at St. Patrick’s Cathedral where Asylum Seekers from Afghanistan are currently on Hunger and Thirst strike in a bid to remain in Ireland.
Eamon Dunphy: ....Peter good morning to you.

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Good morning Eamon.

Eamon Dunphy: Peter we heard a cross section of views there, some people eh who are, who know these refugees are sympathetic to them, eh asylum seekers rather, others hostile, em the Minister is taking a hard line here, and many people would feel he’s justified Peter, because these people are in the process, and appear to be trying to pre-empt the process?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah the situation is somewhat confused, and I don’t claim to have all the details, but it does seem to be the case that many, perhaps most of them have not yet gone through the process. Now em we would except that the process should run its course, one of the difficulties of course is that despite many improvements in recent years, that can take an unreasonable length of time, even those who are ultimately given permission to stay here, might have been refused once or twice first. That is over a period of time during which they’re not allowed to work, they’re not in any sense encourage to integrate into society, they’re twiddling their thumbs from one end of the day to the next, so I can understand that people feel unsettled and depressed, and I heard yesterday, and I don’t know how true this is, that a rumour went around that the first deportations were about to happen to Afghanistan. I don’t think there was any basis for that rumour. Ireland hasn’t deported to Afghanistan as far as I’m aware, nor was it intending to, but I can understand how such a rumour eh can have an impact on a community in the current situation.

Eamon Dunphy: And Peter there are eh examples in Belgium that we know of, of Afghans also occupying churches to eh make protests, and in the case of, one case in particular in Belgium, eh the Government did back down and concede asylum?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Yeah there certainly is a precedent in the Belgian situation, eh though I think there would have been some difference including how long the people had been there. I think what arises here is that we have to look at what is the basis for giving people permission to stay here. There are two options, either people qualify for refugee status, or not, or people are given what’s called Discretionary Leave to Remain, that’s a decision made by the Minister for Justice, that while they don’t fully meet the criteria for refugee status, they do indeed qualify to be allowed stay here and not to be deported back home, and now its eh, the Refugee system works reasonably well in the Irish context, its far far better than it was even three or four years ago. The leave to remain system is very close to being a joke I have to say eh in that it is impossible to know why person X is successful and person Y isn’t. If you don’t have political clout, if you don’t have contacts with a Government Party TD, your chances of getting Leave to Remain are very very much slimmer eh the numbers who get that status are extremely low, eh and it can often come only after a period of several years, and I’ve dealt with a case recently, unconnected to Afghanistan, a guy who had been here since 1999, he now found himself in a situation where he had an exciting job opportunity, he didn’t have long term status here, he was still waiting for a decision on his Leave to Remain, and he only got that in the last few weeks, because as far as I’m aware his employer worked to sort it out for him. But that was somebody who had been here since 1999, and who could have been deported if the authorities so decided.

Eamon Dunphy: In other words Peter, like most thing in Irish life its not what you know its who you know?

Peter O’Mahony (CEO Irish Refugee Council): Eh I’m afraid its an element of things, particularly at the Leave to Remain stage, and I’m not saying that that is the way the Refugee element of it eh, the Refugee System is by and large very good. There are however inconsistencies there. Who makes the decision may impact on what the decision is, em, but eh there are weaknesses, particularly at the discretionary Leave to Remain stage, and what I would say is I think eh it is odd, and its very strange that we could have a situation where people could be deported to a country like Afghanistan at the current time.

Eamon Dunphy: Ok, Peter O’Mahony Chief Executive of the Irish Refugee Council thank you very much for joining us on the programme.....

by dunk Thu May 18, 2006 14:16 fuspey at yahoo dot co dot uk

there was some confusion about who could go in and who couldent, only "official" media got in with some close afghan friends of the men. at about 9pm, Tahir Khan came out and gave us an update, he is the man who spoke night 3 after Osmans briefing and again last night, below is his interview. in it he describes the actual situation last night about who is allowed and who is not, it seems yesterday independant media were allowed in, if it is the case that now they are not it is a serious measure, who is calling these shots-this actually is a critical life or death situation.

Tahir was aware of the indymedia network prior to this situation and i informed him that we and our tools (video, audio, camera, note taking) were all resourses for the men to be used at their disposal. A strong case should be made to the church authorities for this

i cant get down till 6.30 if any other imc heads can get down and offer their equipment please do

audio clip
interviewed by imc-ie volunteers, "we are the media"
audio clip
Tahir Khan, summary of day 4's briefing
11.42
interviewed by imc-ie volunteers, "we are the media"
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/imgp3183.wav

this issue has been brought up over the last few days:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76110#comment149582
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76034 (unsure of what exact link)

other audio media:
(night 3)Osman Hotak gives a brief summary of how things stand at 8.00pm
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/main.wav
this includes Tahirs first audio interview with imc-ie

"it would make you ashamed to be an Irish citizen" :Fr. Joe
McCullough
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/post_visit.wav

Fr. Joe describes sinister movements from SOME parts of the media, full transcript later

part unfinished transcript:

part transcript:

You have just come out from visiting the men, can you just tell us how they are

Well, I was very moved by their determination and their courage, a few of them are obviously quite ill, I think seven of them have been to hospital today and come back, thankfully most of them are taking water, I just assured them as a catholic priest and a member of a missionary congregation here in Ireland that we were very much in solidarity with them, that we recognized their plea for justice. And that we hope that Mr. Mc Dowell, if he is a lawyer, and if he is a Christian, that he will show some humanity and compassion. He made a preposterous suggestion that they were just escaping trouble in Afghanistan, but who cased the trouble in Afghanistan and the situation in Afghanistan going back hundreds of years. it is ironic that there are 2 plaques in this cathedral to the British soldiers that died during the British invasion of Afghanistan. So the people in there who are fighting on their behalf, residents against racism, noticed the irony of that, but I was met with nothing but absolute warmth from these people, especially these young men, and they are very determined. So we hope now… It would make you ashamed to be an Irish citizen, we hope that the gobt and the dept of just will get sense, and even if there si some interim solution. 1 young man, hes living in a hostel, not able to work, not able to study, what kind of existence is that, would mc d like an existence like that, and then given the history of this country too, and its emigration and all that’s been happening, it’s a disgrace

You’d think we’d remember having gone through what we went through

You think we would remember that, but no we forgot because there is a preoccupation with money and wealth and all that’s all that occupying even the government, and a sense of justice, of humanity, irrespective of what peoples religious beliefs are, humanity, will the justice ministers not come up here and meet these people.

Do you think that if more Irish people come out and support these men that they can put pressure on mc d to come up and meet them?

Absolutely, if the Irish people, with a tradition of supporting a just cause, this is a just cause, this is a truly just cause that these people have, so we hope that the Irish people will get behind it in the name of humanity and the name of god if we are a Christian nation, if were a Christian people. Why doesn’t Mr. McDowell come and meet these people, and see their sincerity, their warmth, their cause. Even the lawyers that are acting on behalf of residents against racism have said they haven’t been due process in relation to their appeals for asylum. So you know threes lots of injustice upon injustices, upon in, as I said it would make you ashamed to be an Irish citizen

we all see how much Irish society has changed in last generation, you can see it turning into a more greedy me me country, but I’m hoping that people will come out, but do you think it will split between people who support them and people who are against t them. Already we’ve had people saying "get the Taliban out" wave had young people coming up and just shouting in racist taunts to the people who are here supporting the men.

I think that’s down to a degree of ignorance

by dunk Thu May 18, 2006 14:35

Tahir is interviewed by imc-ie last night and explains the situation regarding "media" and who is and is not allowed to tell the mens stories.
We have offered all assistance to Tahir and the men, if that is giving in equipment, quick training for people unaware of all this tek stuff or whatever, scanning important documents. all of imc-ie, thats you and anyone who looks at and uses this resourse, can, and indeed should offer themselves and tools in solidarity.

Indy Gets An Update

by MichaelY - iawm Thu May 18, 2006 14:59

Don't want to repeat myself. Please refer to

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76130&

by Update Thu May 18, 2006 15:47

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060518/ap_on_re_as/afghan_...lence

by anon Thu May 18, 2006 15:55

http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/imgp3183.wav Tahir Khan (mistakes are mine)
9:00 Wednesday

UNHCR rep. discussed for 3 hours, 90% of the mens questions put to him were not answered, they want to live, UNHCR or Gov tells them to give up strike but won't offer them a choice of living a life.

group wanted all media allowed in by church, not to be blocked by authorities, worried media is being blocked as a delaying tactic to test their strength.

The system is fair and men have not gone through system fully yet - McDowell/Ahern

What I know, the men said they were mostly from the same regions and had the same problems, similar, problems with the organisations, but some were given asylum and some were not?

Problems with the outsourced interpertors who are not qualified and their story was not presented as they wanted by skilled people. Waiting 2 yrs for decisions and interviews, one lad getting treatment for hypertension and depression after waiting this long.

McDowell says he is not in business of bulk cases, saying its a business?

We want to bargin for our lives, it may be a good business, we stay in Ireland,its not just about Irish government or staying in Ireland its about many countries aswell, the Afghan nation was used, they were against the Russians, they put the white money with the white powder and now their representatives are used, become used as terrorist and the same people served them in Afghanistan, once your in one circle its very hard to get out of the circlethe sectarian problems somewhere starts peopel come used to that, it becomes like a profession, it cannot be merged into a society, they were born into war for the last 25yrs they know nothing else, systems and laws need to made for the betterment for human beings.

How do react to the part of Irish public opinion against the men and the chants to deport them from across the street?

- I think they havn't seen war, the nations who have not seen wars or suffering, we are pushed out of countries.unwilling pushed out, I take their words are ethnocentrism? they don't know how human beings suffer after war, that the Afghans were used and still being used against the Russians and used in the factionaly war by neighbouring countries, if those Irish that fought for their country their families if they were there, they would say let them live, let them live in that country.

A Young Afghan immigrant asked yesterday why when the kids chant why they don't look at Bertie Ahern Taoiseach went to America, your leader who went over to talk for the Irish, well they don't have leader do that for them, they have never been looked after by the elders. History repeats itself, it may come bad on you aswell.

Do you think Afghanistan could fall into a cateogry of unsafe via the UN

This time the media was used by some powerful countries, yellow journalism, suicide bombers are still crossing the border. Taliban is just a phenoneom first seen introduced 1867, won't be gone without basic needs, would not be used by people being left in peace.

Let them not be used by the great powers.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu May 18, 2006 16:31

Just back from the 12.30 vigil - spent the whole morning outside. A few facts and a few ideas:

1. No sign yet today of the racist individuals/cabal. This doesn't mean they are not likely to show up later - quite a lot of 'discussion' [if you call it that]is going on in a couple of right-wing websites.
2.The 12.30 vigil had about 30 people milling about. A number of SF people with a few placards. IAWM leaflet calling for support for the hunger strikers and a Socialist Youth leaflet calling for School Students to support the hunger strikers distributed.
3.The 11.00 'Press Conference' re-affirmed the determination of the hunger strikers, and particularly the younger lads, to continue. The most heart warming scene was to watch a young hunger striker come out and talk and kiss with his school girlfriend who was there with a couple of her mates. A few hunger strikers mentioned they're being "corralled" by some social workers and other individuals milling around.
4.All activists we spoke to agree that some sort of co-ordination is necessary - RAR are in and out trying to do their best but it's not enough in my opinion....the 6.30 vigil this afternoon, if it has enough activists present, may be an excellent opportunity. We need to establish direct access with the hunger strikers and break their isolation. Nobody needs to circumvent RAR but unity is essential at this point.
Finally and 5. Indymedia is playing a very important role in keeping all interested informed. Please do not engage and waste your time with people whose whole objective is to divert our attention....let them rant away and the Indymedia collective will see that they are kept under control. And, again, be fair and factual in your criticisms, if you feel they should be made public at this time.

Solidarity with the hunger strikers.

by DD Thu May 18, 2006 16:54

Only RAR will have direct access Michael, that has been clearly established by now. These men are in a seriously weakened condition and the last thing they want or need is the IAWM trying to circumvent RAR who have been working with these asylum seekers for a long time now and have grown to know them very well. This is a typical SWP tactic of trying to take over campaigns. It will not be allowed to happen, either by RAR, the church authorities or by the men themselves. A meeting is fine but any attempt to disrupt the men and make "direct contact" inside should not and will not be tolerated. Does the IAWM think that only direct contact with the IAWM is good enough. If the IAWM do not understand that they will not be allowed control this then they should not be made to feel welcome. Where were the IAWM in December? Where were the IAWM for the protests leading up to this hunger strike? And where will the IAWM be when this campaign has run its course (one way or the other) and is out of the media attention? Off trying to hijack other campaigns that are in the media spotlight

by anon - IMHO Thu May 18, 2006 17:16

Even if some agreement is come to it will very long time till the decision comes into effect or they come up to full regularistion, in the situation in Belgium their stay was extended and they were giving temporary working passes http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:a9A_rsumP8cJ:www.unh...&cd=2

but they had difficulty then obtaining those passes

http://www.refugees.org/countryreports.aspx?area=invest...id=68

After about three weeks, in August, the Belgian government agreed to grant them a reprieve, allowing them to stay until early in the new year when it would reassess the security situation in Afghanistan. However, although the government had promised them the right to work, Afghans were having problems obtaining work permits.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41672.htm
The Interior Minister allowed all of the protesters to remain in the country for part of the year, some with families until as late as June, before they had to leave, or they could file for asylum to have their cases individually reviewed. Since the law permits a family of asylum seekers resident in the country for at least 3 years to apply for regularization (4 years for an individual), the extension meant that many of the 300 would be able to remain in the country permanently; however, these cases were still pending at year's end. Fourteen Iranian asylum seekers also went on a hunger strike to protest the rejection of their applications and were also granted a temporary stay while their cases were re-examined. These cases also were still pending at year's end. In 2003, 87 Iranians voluntarily returned to Iran under IOM auspices.

http://www.universal-embassy.be/article.php3?id_article=75

From the Belgian Afghans legal support group
http://www.universal-embassy.be/article.php3?id_article=75
The meaning of the Afghan demands

The Afghans demanded reparation for the denial of rights they had suffered. This reparation implied regularization. The struggle, that lasted three weeks, was all about the conditions of this regularization.

Every request to be regularized is thus subject to a condition of admissibility : foreigners must be able to prove that it is extremely difficult or impossible for him to ask for a residence permit in his country of origin. The concept of exceptional circumstances, which isn’t defined by law but is illustrated in the Council of State’s case law, is very severely taken into account by the Office of Foreigners, with the result that most of the requests don’t even get considered as being admissible. As to the humanitarian circumstances that could eventually be put forward, they have not been defined either. In most cases, they end up being confused with the "exceptional circumstances" we just mentioned. There is no regulation whatsoever of the criteria used by the Office of Foreigners.

On top of it, this administrative procedure is done without any debate and does not have any actual authority of appeal : the Council of State does not get to the bottom of the request, it just judges the quality of the motivation that led to the administration’s decisions.

The absence of any legal criteria of regularization, the absence of any debate and the absence of any possible recourse just tend to show that the whole procedure is purely discretionary. Good or bad reasons to assert that the conditions of admissibility are or are not fulfilled can always be found.

The extent of the Afghan mobilization managed to shake this uncontrollable procedure. It would have been relatively easy to regularize a dozen of hunger strikers, but in this case not only were they 300, but on top of it they were making common cause with the whole of the Afghan community. The Minister’s refusal to negotiate was a refusal to publicize the problem. And the Afghans were not going to be satisfied by undefined promises, they demanded transparency and they demanded that objective criteria be applied to their requests for regularization.

When the Minister failed to react, they asked for the Federal Mediator to intervene, thereby stressing how elementary their demands were : the right to know which criteria is used by the administration to handle its citizens’ requests. The Afghans demanded rules in an area where there were no rules...

The Afghans obtained a few things that will later on concern other asylum seekers.

The Minister of Interior gave his word that his administration would respect an objective criterion of regularization that concerns a certain category of asylum-seekers. It hasn’t been created on this occasion, it belongs to a series of criteria listed in the regularization law of December 22, 1999, and stipulates that any person having asked for a refugee status and having received no enforceable decision within a three-year period (families with children attending school) or a four-year period (singles or couples without children) can be regularized unless the Minister considers that he or she represents a danger for public order or national security.

The Minister gave his word that the requests for regularization will be dealt with within a 3-month period. And this is not a small achievement, when you know that it usually takes 15 months to get an answer...

The Minister admitted that the CGRA lacks objectivity when evaluating a country’s situation and level of security. It will thus in the future have to take its decisions using a much larger sample of reports, and moreover the opinion of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who should normally not be concerned by the residence/departure question.

The asylum seekers who get dismissed, but for whom the order to leave the territory has been postponed, will from now on have the right to obtain a work permit. This measure requires a modification of the Royal Decree of February 6, 2003, and the intervention of the Minister of Employment, M. Frank Vandenbroucke.

by anon Thu May 18, 2006 17:18

Let's not go down cul-de-sacs here. RAR are communicating with the men and doing a fine job. MichaelY would be better putting his energy into getting the IAWM/SWP to attend the evening vigils.

by Confused Thu May 18, 2006 17:23

"Nobody needs to circumvent RAR but unity is essential at this point."

What does this mean? It implies that RAR will be circumvented but with a contradictory call for unity.
Michael are you aware of the SWP feelings towards two of RAR's key activists? You are doing trojan work so far but don't be used to further others political agendas and histories.

by Media Thu May 18, 2006 17:28

Why do some of the Indymedia not apply for a NUJ ID? Then they would be allowed into the press conferences.

All the sniping at the "official" media, to tell you the truth I think quite a bit of the coverage in the "mainstream" press has been decent enough. Of course there has been some awful stuff as well. But there has been some awful contributions here as well. The more scary element of this is the amount of calls into phone shows and the "text polls" on TV3 etc which showed a marked lack of support for the men.

I think this is such a sad situation, people have to start to looking ahead, how do they think this is going to end?

by MichaelY - iawm Thu May 18, 2006 17:33

In another related thread DD you asked a troll whether he can actually read.....
Please and do me a favour and read my message above once more and carefully this time.

What the swp does or does not do is none of my direct concern....I am a recipient in this struggle of their and your decisions.....as much as many of us who are not related to parties....all comments about them to them directly. The iawm is not the swp.
In my personal opinion, the decision of the hunger strikers to take the action they have links their struggle directly with that of those opposed to the Empire's crusade in Afghanistan and Iraq and with the Irish Government's collaboration and direct involvement in that war. Their struggle is for human rights.....for recognition....and to that extent, if it is to be won, it needs the utmost unity amongst all of us who care. Those who care about refugees and racism and those who care about the war! Amongst other things.
A whole set of people over the last few days have been 'interfering'....social workers, health workers, high priests of all religions, media types, TDs and politicians of diverse hues and colours. You have seen no interference, as far as I am aware, from the supporters outside, those on the vigils, those leafletting town, those talking to the independent press, those mobilsing support here in Dublin and further up north.
Criticisism of the type "where were you when...." usually boomerangs on those who use them. Calm down dear friend, accept that nobody is trying to circumvent you and the RAR.... lets start from your position that "a meeting is fine".....lets talk, discuss and we'll find a way forward.
For the sake of and in solidarity with the hunger strikers.

by pat c Thu May 18, 2006 18:15

I dont think that you are trying to take over anything or that you are a puppet of the SWP. But points have been made that the IAWM were not involved in supporting this group before it became a high profile media issue. There are people who hijack campaigns and then cynically discard them when they are no longer of any use. Some of those people are in the IAWM. I think thats what DD is worried about.

I was at the Cathedral yesterday for a total of 4 hours. I didnt hear anyone saying that they were dissatisfied with RAR. There was a meeting at the end of the 6.30 pm vigil, no one raised access problems there either. People may raise concerns if they so wish at the meeting after tonights vigil but no group is going to hijack the campaign.

by Elaine Fri May 19, 2006 00:16

... saw a slightly larger crowd than yesterdays. When the vigil ended, some of us went down to the Cathedral gate as an ambulance had pulled up outside. Two young men were carried out and taken away to hospital. After this happened, some racists opposite the gate started hassling the supporters. One man shouted something along the lines of 'get them out, send them away, - I don't care who kills them.'

Waiting

One Young Man Taken Away

Another Hunger Striker Being Taken To Hospital

Traffic Island Support

No One Is Illegal

by VOICE Mon May 22, 2006 08:35

Statement from the Voice of Afghani Refugees in England
From Decolonisation

Statement from the Voice of Afghani Refugees in England 31st January 2006/ 1st Moharram 1427

Introduction

After 11th September 2001, the US and NATO attacked Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban government. Afghanistan saw a lot of changes following the attacks. Unfortunately, those parties and warlords which took power with NATO, who were fighting and destroying in the past, are no different from the Taliban. In this situation many people have lost their lives and many others have left the country because their homes and livelihoods have been destroyed. They fled Afghanistan for many different countries, England being just one of those countries.

The British government policy has been very dangerous for these refugees who have been refused asylum and been detained and deported. For those that remain, support is cut off and these people have been abandoned with no support or consideration. Most of these people cannot go to Afghanistan as their lives are in danger. There is no facility for them to return or live in Afghanistan. Neither is it safe for them to return there.

Statement

1 The British governments continuation of enforced deportation is against peoples human rights. The Afghanistan government is not taking any responsibility to facilitate and take responsibility for the lives of refugees to return. There is no prospect of peace, of stable economy, no public facilities for the welfare of the people of Afghanistan.

2 Everybody knows the Taliban and their partners are still increasing their attacks on the people, the schools and public places. The government and NATO have proved incapable of stopping them.

3 The British government is sending more troops to Afghanistan because there is no peace. This shows that NATO have failed. Inside the Afghanistan government - including the leaders of 13 provinces - are involved in the drugs trade. Nobody has stopped them from continuing their illegal actions and this shows that the government has never felt any responsibility for the people of Afghanistan.

Most of the NGOs in Afghanistan are protected by concrete bunkers - shut off from the rest of the population because they do not feel safe.

4 We hear from BBC that UNHCR have just accepted 6,000 refugees in 2006 to be returned to Afghanistan because there is no facility for any more. All of this 6000 will be from Pakistan and Iran. This shows that inside Afghanistan refugees have returned to such bad conditions that they do not have even tents to live in. There is only minimal help from UN or the government.

Nobody want to leave their home, but there is no choice without resources, without peace - without food and water and without work. One refugee from Afghanistan has committed suicide just a few days ago at a Distribution Centre in London - The condition of refugees here, who number in the thousands, is deteriorating - Without any support we are becoming mentally and physically ill.

We request from Tony Blair, Charles Clerk, Hamid Karzai, Kofi Annan and all those with power to think of our situation. Our demand is for freedom of work and movement which will benefit both this country as well as Afghanistan because we can support those in Afghanistan as well as those in England. Finally we are human and demand to be treated with humanity wherever we are or are from.

Retrieved from "http://uo.dczn.net/index.php/Statement_from_the_Voice_o...gland"

by Emma Wed Apr 25, 2007 19:27

Today hit a low in Anti racism/deportation support mostly RAR activists turned up with a handful of other activists but the usual suspects for the demonstration for the Afghan Hunger Strikers from the cathedral last year. I left last year came out on this issue for the hunger strikers and I realise it was different circumstamces but where were people today? I think there is a serious lack of support among left activists for asylum seekers the men came as far away from Tralee leaving at five this morning and activist never bothered their arse to turn up and it was a great disappointment to the guys and its from all aspects of the left trot, anarchist, communist personally I give up on the left its all talk and no action I cant see what changes people are making.

by Cathedral supporter Wed Apr 25, 2007 19:35

I was expecting the protest to be on the 16-17th of may.

Its quite hard to juggle. I am aware of why it was called today, but Everyone who was there
supporting remebers the May occupation- which means don't lose heart

+ advertise well in advance- lot of pressures this week.
maybe an eventime protest-

sorry, not being there.

by CSL Wed Apr 25, 2007 20:03

Poorly organised pressure group, +flighty, disorganised activists who wander from one cause to another depending on what's in the news, + no publicity, + no public relations, + no effort to even have an updated website... = nobody at protest.

Did anyone from RAR attempt to gather information from those who showed up at the cathedral last year such as mobile numbers which could have been used for texting etc?

Did RAR put together any follow up about the hunger strike such as public meetings, leaflets, press releases, pieces on the internet etc.?

Was there any attempt to publicise today's protest beyond indymedia? Was any reason given to people to encourage them to show up , beyond that they just kindof owed it to the Afghans?

If you don't water your plants they will wither and die.

If you don't do basic groundwork for your campaign, no one will show up for your demonstrations.

by cathedral supporter Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:02

People were able to make the cathedral solidarity vigils because they were held at 6pm. Most of those who turned up at that time were working during the day. A mid-day work-day protest is not realistic for a lot of people. Very bad timing.

by madam k Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:20

if todays turnout was disheartening,the last two comments are far more depressing ...

by cathedralist Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:33

depressing? What are you on about? I think it's pretty valid to point out that a large attendance could hardly be expected at 12.30pm on a workday. Most of the people outside the cathedral had to make their way there after a day's work. bully for you if don't have to work during the day but many of us have mouths to feed and rent to pay.

So the timing was an issue. We can't all be full-time activists or get time off work when we want it. I have to ask weeks in advance to get time off in my workplace.