The Wheelock Family move out of Summerhill after continuing Garda intimidation

by jim Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:32

obviously the local gardai have something to hide, why would they behave in such a fashion.
why woulld they stand outside the wheelocks intimidating them.
they are a heartless cruel bunch of garda intimidating women and children.
06 in a working class area what has changed in the last 40 years? nothing.
its getting worse, when a family cannont excercise there constitutional right to a democratic protest. the family have always maintained a dignified stance even in the face of severe provocation by elements from local police stations.
These forces have failed in their task to provoke the family and have now resorted at what there good at intimidation.
i think its terrible the family have to move shame on the garda.
as for their high level probe well not to be a cynic,
but well i think everone knows what a high level garda probe really is.
in reality high level damage limitation excercise. good luck to the wheelock family support them.

by Rose - GardaWatch Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:04

Fair play to Indy heads for keeping us all up to date on this.

What can be done to help? What is being done?

Is the national media ignoring this?

What about making a direct link with Kathleen O'Neil or whatever her name is... ask for advice from Nuala O'Loan's office?

These bullying b*stards won't get away with it.

by mediawatch Tue Jul 04, 2006 17:34

There was 1 & 1/2 page story of this in Ireland on Sunday yesterday, told the complete story and the harrasment to move out pretty straightfowardly. by Ken Fox or somebody like that.

Apparently another outside Gardai was investigating the harressment, so in the mean time we'll all hold our breath.

by maura Wed Jul 05, 2006 02:08 Rutland cottages nth innercity

The only people being "attacked" by these so called 'tough" looking local bullysboys from fitzgibbon st.
Is the wheelock family.
The only people being assaulted in sean o'casey ave is a family called the wheelocks by local gardai who arrested there son last year and who died in their care and custody in extremely suspicious circumstances.
they were outside the wheelock home intimidating a peaceful and dignified courages family.

One of the reasons they moved out is to stop the escalation in tensions in the area and calm things down, people are pretty pissed off in the area.
interesting to know the local yobs from fitz st in uniform were intimidating neighbours with door to door inquiries today, people from my understanding feel this is trying to personally target neighbours and friends of the wheelock family.
There has been an number of incidents recently with one lad been hospitized due to escalating tension in the area between local youths and local gardai he has contacted a soliciter with regards to his beating by members.

its amazing to think not only is the arresting garda of terence posted outside what was the family home.
but also the one involved in the attack on the family last month, a garda steve mulqueen.

This high level probe should take these circumstances in to account.
This weepie weepie will come to effect all those courrupt garda who mistakenly thought they were at one piont, beyond reproach and above the law in the wheelock affair.
revelations are down the line.

Democracy rules, The Wheelock family supported by their community 2/6/06

by Free Stater - The Socialist Party Wed Jul 05, 2006 03:29

Maura, I do not doubt a word you say, and I have great sympathy for the family involved. But Socialism demands policing not anarchy or not weepie weepie liberalism - which is a device, a tool of Capitalism when it has its back to the wall. If Socialist economics prevailed that family would not be in the social situation that it finds itself. Let us have a full independent enquiry and see what it says. In the meantime I shall consult my party leader Joe Higgins TD for guidance in this matter and I shall get back to you. I am sure you appreciate that there must be law and order, that something like 40 people, many of them innocent , have been shot dead in Dublin this year. This is dreadful, what about THEIR families? I know that some Gardai are rotten but the vast majority of the Gardai do their duty and are even helpful at times. We must obey the laws of the State or we might as well throw our hat at it. What do you think?

by req Wed Jul 05, 2006 03:45

I know that some Gardai are rotten but the vast majority of the Gardai do their duty and are even helpful at times

What do the vast majority of the Gardai do about the rotten Gardai, that are harrassing the wheelocks?

by Rick Wed Jul 05, 2006 03:58

What local politicans are involed in the campaign?

by Suuuuurrrre you're a socialist Wed Jul 05, 2006 09:00

Big Garda heads rolled in Donegal

Really? You mean the shuffling around and early retirement? I wish somebody would roll my head into early retirement with full pension after I frame somebody for murder.

Yes, we must obay the law of the state and that 'we' includes the gardai. And if we do not obey the law of the state, we must be punished and that 'we' includes the gardai too.
Those who shield are as bad as those who commit!

by maura Wed Jul 05, 2006 19:51 nth innercity

Hi freestater,
i have some doubt that you really are a socailist, some of what you said does not make sense.
The issue at hand is not weather the organisation of the gardai are at fault in relation to the wheelock case but rather a select few from a local garda stations.
namely fitgibbon st and store st garda stations
These individuals names are widely known in the local area, as the local bullys.
This thread is about what is happening the wheelock family at present,
everyone knows about the wheels of justice turn slowly that is due to the state of the courts in this island. but that is not to say that people should not know what is going on now today, present tense.

These people or individual gardai if you want, would not feel they can get away with this intimidation were it not for the fact that they are protected by a mafia like walll of silence that exists in the garda shiochana. To quote the eminent judge fred morris in relation to donegal, "ill discipline is endemic in the force not just donegal but through out the land" this ill discipline has manifested itself in relation to the serious allegations in the wheelock affair.
It is are duty to highlight to the public through democratic means as the wheelock family advocates, exactly what is happening at present to protect themselves from further attacks by garda yobs.
leaving one's home because of intimidation is somthing that criminals use to instill fear in communitys,
criminals hiding behind a uniform are no different, they are not made men whith a state licence and a union thinking they are above the law, they should be prosecuted.

by jim Wed Jul 05, 2006 19:59

as far as i know rick , labours joe costelloes has mentioned this in the dail on a number of occasions to the minster mcdowell, also TD tony gregory he stated in the dail that the forensic cleaning of the cell with legal reprensentation being denied access, " was akin to the IRA in belfast forensically cleaning the bar in which robert mccartney was murdered"
also sinn fein counciler cristy burke, and mep mary lou mcdonald have had some input, i know the the family of terence wheelock and john maloney jnr had a meeting with a coalitian of independents in the dail led by finian mcgrath and clomel td seamous healy, the results of tht meeting is not public.

by bill Wed Jul 05, 2006 20:13

Without a doubt this is what is needed to restore some confidence in the area with regard to local policing, kids in local schools are asking what happend to terence wheelock it is getting that the gardai will have to explain to an independent body why there are so many flaws in their accounts on that day. a can of worms has been opened in to low standards in the treatment of suspects in garda custody .

politicians address the march seeking answer into terence death

by Alias Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:45

Re: some of the comments by the alleged 'socialist' (remember, Bertie Ahern is also a socialist, despite calling Joe Higgins a "failed person" with a "failed ideology" in the Dáil last month.

"wouldn't you be delighted to see them if you were being attacked?"
&
"I am sure you appreciate that there must be law and order, that something like 40 people, many of them innocent , have been shot dead in Dublin this year"

These are red herrings. So what? A young man was killed while in police custody. The fact that the police are supposed to protect you if you are attacked, and the fact that there is a lot of violent crime that the police should be dealing with, in no way excuses serious human rights abuses by the police. This seems to be what you are inferring. Because the police are important for law and order, they should be let off the hook if they make mistakes - is this your take on things? Well, if so, this is a pretty serious mistake that they have made...

"All I am saying is that Socialism promotes Policing, good effective policing"

I think that a true socialist might suggest that a good starting point would be to tackle the serious human rights abuses within the Gardaí, of which details are now emerging. This would be an underlying condition and basis for the "good effective policing" you refer to. Don't you think??

"Don't use one single family case, no matter how outrageous, against the entire Garda Force"

As has been alluded to above, Justice Morris, who presided over the tribunal of inquiry into the events around Richie Barron's murder and the bullying of the McBrearty family, strongly suggested that corruption and abuse of civil liberties were endemic within the Irish police force. It's hard to believe that somebody would want to paint the Wheelock tragedy as an isolated incident. This sounds like a typical conservative head-in-the-sand approach - denial, denial, denial of reality.

A shot in the dark - is this alleged socialist actually a Garda who is trying to do some shoddy PR? If so, commendations of a sort for engaging, but you're take on things is a little insulting...

by Revolutionary Joe Soap - International Working Class - Ireland dept Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:42

You wouldn’t get this sort of thing from drug dealing scumbags, yet the ‘peace officers’ do it on a daily basis and it’s airbrushed out of the news so you don’t hear about it.

The Gardaí are a single entity and they are all complicit. Don’t let them fool you, there are no separate branches, there are no ‘outside’ Gardai. They are all complicit as servants of the state.

People here speak about the Gardai being working class but they are also servants of the state and do the dirty work of the capitalists. Gardai in the lower echelons obviously don’t understand this or they wouldn’t sign up but that’s what Police, in a capitalist state, are there for. Just because they’re working class doesn’t mean they’re revolutionaries. Revolutionaries should fight for the rights and welfare of the working class but if said working class (i.e. rank in file Gardai) are fighting against you, because they believe they’re something they’re not, it’s a difficult job. It’s very hard to fight for someone who doesn’t understand the revolution and is constantly fighting against the revolution. That’s what working class Unionism is and it’s also why Socialist education is so important. There is no socialist education in Irish or British schools so we have to start at Marxists.org.

There is nowhere for the working class to turn to for help in this country. Speak out and we’ll make you’re life a living hell… that’s the unofficial line of the state. I think protesting is unofficially illegal in this country. We should fight back!

That ‘Free Stater’ person sounds like a PD supporter. A socialist who supports the petite bourgeoisie? That’s a new one. Is this Socialism according to the PDs? Is that National Socialism by any chance?
(This isn’t directed at ‘Free stater’ by the way but Nationalism and Socialism are 2 contradictory ideologies and as such National Socialism is an oxymoron in itself. This is just more evidence that fascists, who are the no brainers who espouse this ideology, don’t understand either ideologies. Why, therefore, should we listen to the rubbish they come out with on a regular basis? Imagine your teacher told you that Santa Claus is the messiah and will come again. Would you listen to her/him?)

by steve Fri Jul 07, 2006 19:48

interesting to note that there was a young lad befor the courts charge under a public order offence in which they gardai claimed that there was a mini battle with youths in the summerhill area, wonder if this is related to the poor relations in the area with gardai because of the wheelock case?

by ' Fri Jul 07, 2006 20:27

;

The wheelock family store st garda station 2/6/06

by Rick Sat Jul 08, 2006 00:56

Thanks. There is a lot of support for the family. They need not fret with LB, SF, Tony Gregory, and presumably Joe Higgins and a lot of others on their side.

Beannacht

Rick

by seedot - quoting Ewan MacColl Sat Jul 08, 2006 01:32

If there's anyone there has a moment to spare
And can give undivided attention
I'd be grateful if you'd give a minute a two
And consider some points I would mention
There are slanderous tongues always ready to wrong
And murder the fine reputation
Of the lads with big feet who by pounding the beat
Are protecting the peace of the nation

There are shortsighted folks who insist that these blokes
Are just uniformed masters of thuggery
There can be no dispute if they didn't put the boot in
The country would all go to buggery
So try and keep calm when they're twisting your arm
Or planting a fist in your gob
When they're giving you hell in a cold prison cell
They're only just doing their job

When Hitler and Co. were running the show
Assisted by Germany's coppers
If a nose was too big or a mind was too active
Its owner was sure of the chopper
Socialists, Communists, Jews and trades unionists
Landed up dead or in quod
And the police were in there of course doing their share
But they were just doing their job

Il Duce the bully and Franco his cully
Both loaded their countries with chains
And in the front ranks of these two mountebanks
Were the police of both Italy and Spain
In South Africa, El Salvador, Guatemala
Where they call working people 'the mob'
The screams and the yells from the punishment cells
Show the police are just doing their job

If you're black or just brown, if you're jobless and down
If you speak for a world which is saner
If you stand up and fight for what's yours by right
If you're an anti-nuclear campaigner
Remember the chap in the comical hat
Is one of humanity's crosses
Wherever there's trouble, whatever the struggle
He'll be on the side of the bosses

by maura Sat Jul 08, 2006 16:56 nth innercity

terence wheelock was a painting one day,
when his mates called to his window saying hey!
what ya doing they say,
i'm paintin my room it looks to grey.

Well come on down lets ramble around its such a lovely day, come see what we have its little white car three doors down its not to far,
promise you, not a word to your dad lar.

Ok just for a while he said with a smile,
heading down the lane.

ALL of a sudden screetches and trouble
cop cars on the scence looking extreme, looking for someone to blame.
Exit the cars with sneers and snarls
Grab the four lads who they say are bad
suddenly pain is the name of the game
punches and slaps they met out there crap
what a surpise say pigs with dispise.
when were finished you's will need a disguise.
into the cars, racing of to the local sty.
Arrive at the station split them up and bate them
A seperate cells is were terence fell,
sceams and niose then silence and lies,
cop says you better not tell, other one screams he's Hanging from the bell, get an ambulance quick as hell,
whats the hurry take your time he aint no friend of mine
wait for a while he says with a smile he's only goin a mile or so,
dont rush take it slow.
fix the scene you know what i mean,
investigaters wont be to keen.
get your story straight, dont forget were all mates. when this is done remember and think if they ask , detective winks," keep your mouth shut never blink."
Of in the ambulance terence fights,
three long months he clings to life
He never recovers to tell the tale
A family devastated in utter dismay.
But they continue to fight for justice and what is right,
While the cops continue to harass the go ahead given from top brass.
If they stopped there plight and gave up the fight because they were afraid, terence would turn in his grave. so we must support them 100% to stop this violence and help prevent, another death of another gent.

by jim Sat Jul 08, 2006 17:12

Terence Wheelock death is all that is wrong with are justice system and the rights which gardai continually infringe and violate in working class districts.

Supporter remembers Terence Wheelock

by chrissy Sat Jul 08, 2006 20:50

I reckon we all have a duty to keep making as much fuss as ever we can about abuses of human rights - it's the only way to keep Gardai & other abusers in line. Press for a fully independent enquiry into the young man's death.

by jason Sun Jul 09, 2006 14:57

Cant believe in this day and age were everyone knows that human rights abuse's occur in every democracy , that people have to press for an independent inquiry into a suspicious death of a young man in police custody, it should be a mandatory thing is it not enshrined in are own constitution that the right to life is paramount regardless of the class of the citizen. were not the men who died for this country and who fought the war of independence not working class men from humble backgrounds?
Cant help but think that if terence address was in D4 or some other leafy suburb and if his family were middle class professionals an and the circumstances sourrounding his death were the same.
I can picture mcdowell being lynched from the tricolar pole over leinster house.
But it is a funny coincidence that this sort of thing does not happen in place's like D4 but in working class districts time and again it makes one think of what gardai really think of people like terence and others.

Garda at store st.

by jack Sun Jul 09, 2006 15:21

The familys of Terence Wheelock and Jonner maloney protest at Berties office in drumcondra

Where's it all going

by BS Detector Mon Jul 10, 2006 16:55

"Well come on down lets ramble around its such a lovely day, come see what we have its little white car three doors down its not to far,
promise you, not a word to your dad lar.

Ok just for a while he said with a smile,
heading down the lane"

- What a lovely poetic way to tell the story of a few criminals stealing a car! Catch yourselves on!!

by jazzy pea Mon Jul 10, 2006 20:08

who said it was stolen it was in sean ocasey ave, the alleged theft according to gardai was in donnybrook..
innocent till proven guilty Terence Wheelock was in the wrong place at the wrong time, he was never affforded his right to life, he was killed by criminals And so the smearing of a dead lad continues who can not defend himself . Who gives a flying fiddlers about some poxy materialistic item , a young lad lost his life, and people are" catching on" there catching on to human rights abuse's in are country, these pr aware gardai have kept the lid on for decades, where were you people when you were sending little boys down to be sexually abused by priests files going missing from gardai.
cope on, were not going to give up this fight for justice.

by one parent family member - one parent family Tue Jul 11, 2006 08:16 Limerick

Exactly the same happened to us in Limerick after a local garda wanted to purchase our family home for near to nothing and told me a woman without man would be vulnareble and I should expect getting robbed and awfull things could happen to me. They did and the gardai were allways at the house shining lights in and pissing on the windows and everywhere else in a later stage. I was beaten up so badly on one occasion that 70% of my body was black and blue. If they were outside I would be in a corner hiding and waiting for them gain access to the house and beat me up. I would call the womans refuge and they heard them laugh and talk and they would not even care to be silent as they knew the womens refuge would not back me up. I moved but am a poor person now in every way. I still cannot sleep at night.

by Mark P - Socialist Party (personal cap) Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:22

It's in pretty poor taste for someone to come onto a thread like this pretending to be a member of a political organisation and trying to wind people up. "Free Stater" was so obvious in his/her trolling that most people seem to have picked up straight away that he/she was no kind of socialist, but just in case anyone missed the point: his or her views are not those of the Socialist Party. Here is the actual Socialist Party view on recent episodes of Garda brutality:

Gardai terrorised and abused the innocent

The Morris Tribunal has uncovered more evidence of Garda abuse of innocent people in custody in Donegal. The Garda hierarchy and the government are trying to explain away these events as being the act of a "few rotten apples" but this is nonsense.

The Morris Tribunal was set up to investigate the Gardai in Donegal following the frame up, terrorising and abuse of innocent people during the investigation into the death of cattle dealer Richie Barron who was found dead on a roadside in October 1996. A number of people were wrongly arrested and suffered brutal harassment for years by the Gardai including Frank McBrearty jnr and his father. They were wrongly accused of murdering Richie Barron who died in a hit and run accident.

Katrina Brolly and Roisin McConnell are the two women at the centre of the most recent abuse claims. Detective Sgt John White and Detective Garda John Dooley have both admitted to mistreating these women while they were in custody. Previously both had denied any charges of mistreatment.

The women were shown post mortem photographs of Richie Barron, were verbally abused, had their hair pulled violently, chairs thrown across the room and in the case of Katrina Brolly the guards threatened to take her children away from her into care.

Detective White also stated at the tribunal that bugging in Garda Stations of suspects and their solicitors was widespread. He said it was a well-kept secret. Indeed he also revealed that a conversation between Roisin Mc Connell and her solicitor was recorded. Incredibly when he told two senior officers, including Assistant Commissioner Kevin Carty and Chief Supt. Austin Mc Nally, about the bugging of conversations they told him they were not going to investigate it!

The actions of the Gardai in Donegal are not isolated. Dean Lyons, a homeless man and a drug addict, "confessed" to the killing of two women in the grounds of Grangegorman hospital, a confession which is now acknowledged to be false and which is the subject of an inquiry. There are also investigations into the recent suspicious deaths in Garda custody of Terence Wheelock in Dublin and Brian Rossiter in Tipperary.

The revelations of widespread wrong doing by the Gardai in Donegal will come as little surprise to many people. They come on top of a litany of high profile incidents involving the Gardai, where many questions remain unanswered including the shooting of John Carthy and the killling of the two men during a robbery at the Lusk post office last year.

The Gardai remain completely unaccountable to anybody but themselves and their political masters in government who back them to the hilt. The Socialist Party believes that we need new policing services - community based policing services that are under the democratic control of locally elected policing committees and not the politicians.

What has happened in Donegal proves beyond doubt that the Gardai should not be allowed to investigate themselves. Serious accusations of abuse, miscarriages of justice and corruption against the Gardai must be investigated in public by independent inquiries that allow the working class access to the full facts. When evidence exists of Garda corruption and abuse (as it does in Donegal) the accused should be prosecuted through the courts.

by jason Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:26

i agree mark.p you have made some very good pionts with regards to local policing and accountability to local communitys, were i live in the local gardai dont give a shit about local people and seem to think that everyone and everybody are to be frank and in their words scum.
I think your right this is directly related to lack of accountability maybe if they had to answer to the communtiy as in the wheelock case the communtiy want answers. they would be more community aware when policing are neighbourhoods. as fro donegal most of these garda criminals were based in dublin for most of their carrers and highly decorated surely there criminality did not start in donegal after all every river has a source, dublin and their carreers should be looked at, these criminals past should be looked at and complaints made in the past should be reopened i'd say there are plenty.
as for the women in limerick, may be she feels abandoned, heard people state befor {mansion house cpi} of gardai bullying people and using there position to obtain land and houses. ombudsman will blow the lid on this, i beleive the gardai have been lucky and sneaky up till now, things are set to change.

by scum Tue Jul 11, 2006 14:17

Deaths like this are the unfortunate price to be paid for maintaining law and order.

As a generalisation if people stopped behaving like "scum" the cops would be a lot nicer to them and none of this would happen.

by jason Tue Jul 11, 2006 14:39 Dublin

who are these heatless people, i dont think brian rossiter 14 as scum he was a child and like most children get up to mischeif but grown men in uniforms with there narrowminded brains, assauting young men and abusing chidren, terence wheelock was painting his room just befor he was assaulted and arrested, johnner maloney was returning home at 8.30am from a camping trip from the mountains. when arrested for a drug search he died, no drugs were found.
These criminal gardai fit a profile widely accepted ,
They are people who crave power and attention, narcisstic, arrogant, and violent, coniving and conceited,
elevated with their own self importance,
who have been bulled at school or on the farm who have at a tough life and have been abused themselves, they are usually narrowminded with a rural background were association in early life was limited. havebasic leaving cert qualifications,
and have a distorted view of urban city, through a steady diet of hyped media and biased stereotypesthey have a deepseated fear and suspicion of city people and are cynical and coy.
In short they are usually farmers sons, and are kerry fans.

by cop on Wed Jul 12, 2006 21:08

intersting read your thread but the killing of two people in Lusk as a point of Gardai corruption, two known scumbags, and one armed with a gun and other picking it up when he was shot, get a life if you want to bleat about gardacorruption there are better examples

by adam Wed Jul 12, 2006 21:46

The issue is here is human rights abuse by the state's police force, To tell you the truth terence wheelock was not charged with any offence nothing in the garda press release alludes to this.
He is and was in the eyes of the law and his family, friends, and supporters for justice innocent of any wrong doing, he died in very suspicious circumstances, they are calling for an independent inquiry to ascertain the facts if he did commit suicide that will come out but if he did not, well, The corruption in donegal and its repercussions will be in the ha'penny place, why do people get so angry when someone questions a gaurds version of events it sounds like neo nazis protecting there ss, gaurds are human there is corruption in every walk of life gaurds are by no means a holy exception, we must route out corruption so we can have a better police force.

by Big Mac Wed Jul 12, 2006 22:11

Sure we're hearing about acceptable Police forces up here in the North from Sinn Fein but the fact is until Politicians are forced to act to weed out corruption then the Police/ Gardai will continue to be weighed down with Scumbags.

by The Watcher Wed Jul 12, 2006 23:41

So Wexfordguy, "People don't get arrested for no reason'' . Well tell that to someone like Annie Maguire or the Guilford 4, to name but a small few.

'' They don't get 'suspected' of commiting crime if they never have done'. Really! What crime did Annie's two young sons commit.

Did you not ever hear of 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time', it does happen you know and sometimes the police are not very bright. Look at Donegal.

The Wheelock Family campaign is about trying to find out what happened to their son in Store Street Garda Station, that eventually led to his death. What 's so wrong about that? It's not a lot to ask for,is it? No family in their situitation, regardless of their background, should have to walk the streets of Dublin with placards begging for the truth. This is what the Wheelocks have had to do, and they are not alone. They have had to do it while still grieving for their son and brother. They have had to do it while enduring Garda harassment right outside their door day and night.

If you have been lucky enough in life never to have fallen foul of corrupt Gardai, then good for you. But, (and I speak from experience),if you are ever unlucky enough to 'be in the wrong place at the wrong time', let me tell you a little secret - the Guards CAN MAKE SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE. They start opperating the 'LIE MACHINE', and boy is it good at making smoke ! So don't always believe what you read in the 'smoke ' signals

by Free Stater Thu Jul 13, 2006 00:55

Re the Wheelock Family, my point is that Under Law we do not know what happened yet, and, of course there is no doubt that the poor family are grieving.

But let's seek Justice, not Revenge, and let's not abuse the sorrows of one family to taint the entire Garda Siochana.

In the meantime I am convinced, as the entire country is, that James Carty was deliberately shot down in cold blood by armed police at Abbeylara, but even here we have to await the outcome of the Enquiry.

Nobody was murdered in Donegal - just a few, and I emphasise, a few, Garda Officers conspiring to get themselves promoted.

Look where they are now! Far from promoted, out on their arses, shamed among colleagues and neighbours alilke, and in front of the whole country too.

A Garda was found guilty, a few months back, of stealing ladies underwear off clotheslines in Co. Waterford.

The Judge lashed into him, calling him a pervert , which was wrong! His crime was that of theft. He may have been a Tranny but thankfully society is tolerant and understanding of this, and it would have been his own business if he had to buy the underwear rather than steal it - and it is not a crime. The Judge remanded him for sentence, promising him a stiff one, and he is dismissed from the Force. If you or I had to do that we would have got a fine or probation.

Gardai have been arrested, charged and found guilty of non-fatal offences, penalised, and thrown out of the force.

Abbeylara and the Wheelock killing stand yet to be proved, I hope and I am sure that they will and the uniformed perpetrators brought to Justice.

What we need now is calm, and to support our local Gardai in their battle against a real rise in crime in this country, that threatens us all.

Doesn't that make sense, or are you one of those who wants no gardai at all?

by jason Thu Jul 13, 2006 15:51

What you say about donegal once again does not make sense, first of all it was nnot the gardai who exposed as you put it "a few corrupt gardai" like the wheelocks, it was the mcbreartys who were being framed for murder, over a number of years they sustained a an unprecendented campaign of violence and intimidation just like the wheelock family, hundreds of summons were aimed at their busness to destroy there lively hood, men and women were physcologicaly scarred and mcbreartys were physically tortered, phones were bugged, cells were bugged, and it was actually dublin based gardai NCBI who tryed to fit frank mcbrearty up with a murder by forging a statement these are supposedly the elite of the gardai, again when senior gardai from dublin went up to investigate these allegations when told by a detective about the bugging they said they didn,y want to know about that.,
it was the MC'BREARTYS who exposed them, through there very brave and tough stance and refused to put up with this shit from the donegal divison. with the helpm of a private investigater they gathered evidence and produced it to the minister of justice and various TDs.
they done the police work, all this was available to garda investigaters with much stronger powers. all of this was not just the actions of "a few bad apples" the whole of the donegal division were involved,
and they were aided and abetted by senior investigaters from dublins "elite" who couldn't mop the crap up.
As morris has indicated rather starkly courruption has been allowed to fester and grow over a long period this has led to bad discipline with in the gardai has a whole. Why would a senior eminent and respected judge make such slanderous remarks against the gardai.
There needs to be a radical overhaul of the gardai, to make a more efficent and effective policeing force they have got lazy.
Funny just around the time when crime is getting out of hand and garda corruption is being exposed.
The aussies done a recruitment drive selecting gardai from the ranks recently a significant number maybe 50 or 60 done preliminary tests, they selected about 7 or 8, they would not take the rest because ther view was gardai policing was crude despit gardai doing a two year course..

you onl;y have to go to the courts to see so many gardai physically out of shape! how do they pass there yearly fitness tests! judging by the bellys, more corruption!

Wake up and cop on.
changes are needed a radical policing overhaul needs to incoporate human rights with high standards of intelligence and health and fitness, if this means doing what the aussies do by recruiting from different countries, and kicking a few lazy slobs out, so be it, good ridence we'll have a better police force. BETTER FOR THEM AND BETTER FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
we deserve the highest standards.
Good look to the wheelock family and i admire there courage under Corrupt gardai intimidation because the ugly face of couruption can be pretty ruthless, when its back is to the wall.

by Laura, wexford girl Fri Jul 14, 2006 15:49 wexford town

garda from wexford made that girls life a living hell he was a perv,
not only did she have to put up with his unwarranted advances from her best friends husband.
but she was also subjected to a terrifying ordeal of sexual intimidation he posted her name and address and phone number all around wexford she had to put up wiht dozens of pervs ringing at all hours in the morning, she lived in constant fear and had to get garda protection,
this is why the judge lashed in to him, he was in a position of athourity, he abused his powers, of all people its inparitive he observes the law, fi it were me or you, as you say, i think a custodial sentence would of been given, his postion as a gaurd save him, the judge was not cruel, like thrown a lamb to the slaughter, a cop would be bad enough, but to send a perv cop to prison, well you know the rest, you have a warped sense of things.

by jim Sun Jul 16, 2006 20:36

Article in the irish indo yesterday outlining allegations of intimidation against the wheelock family and there subsequent move to crumlin from the summerhill area.
It has been confirmed of late that there is a high level garda probe in to the allegations.
but doubt if the wheelock family would have much faith in such a probe, with allegations of assault, sworn affidavits to the family solicitor evonne banbury,
and video evidence of gardai on a rampage through the wheelock home literally falling over themselves to get in.
Explosive stuff to come befor the courts.
well for the sceptics, the broadsheets do not print a story with out info from reliable sources,
also video footage of on going intimidation outside the home. journalist story ann marie walsh, also heard the irish times wrote a peice but could not get a copy today. anyway " ireland on sunday" done this story last week.
it has been confirmed by wheelocks lawyers that writs will be served due to garda intimidation, if true, and i'm sure there is thruth to this, it is a sad reflection on gardai in that area.

by Dejan - Ultras Mon Jul 17, 2006 04:14

Can a socialist claiming that a socialist utopia would have prevented this happening in the first place then decide to ignore whats going on in reality?

No I don't think so. An abuse of power and use of indimidation against innocent people, the family and their neighbours, is simply a disgrace and should result in prosecutions of the gardii involved.

by micheal dublin Wed Jul 19, 2006 16:36

readinfg the indo today, about the onging revelations in to currupt garda practice of inimidating, assaulting and the use of phycological torture of suspects, He is the head of the mounties in canada, he said in his country the kind of behavour would never be tolerated in any cicumstances, and that the tradition of showing pictures of the deceased to murder suspect coupled with violence and physcological torture of women was goinjg to far and amounted to in his veiw somewhat "EVIL" and could see no justification for it, only that it was somewhat crude policing normaly found outsde of a western democracy. he also said that in his country canada were there is a high detection of crimes per capita and are one of the best law biding countrys in the world were every home has a gun. This sort of policing would never be tolerated by colleagues and if detected would with out hesitaion be reported to superiors there was zero tolerence on the use of phycologal and physical torture coupled together it was intolerable. but this is going on little old ireland and being tolerated courruption in the force has led to bad policing they have all the powers they need, non jury courts not tolerated anywere in western europe, criminal assets bureu, restrictions on the right to silence, 7 day detention of drug suspects, more money than any other depar, the backing of citizens and press, but yet crime is potrayed as out of control, the conclusions that can be drawn is an ill disciplined force has led ot moral breakdown bad policing practices has led to a low detection rate and an increase of crime.

by audrey sullivan Wed Jul 26, 2006 23:17 blanchardstown d15

it seems to be in the news alll the time now, about garda failing and corruption, but they seem to be arrogant with regards to any criticism even by a respected and learned judge as is the case with barr and abbeylara, they should just shut up and implement changes instead of acting like spioled bully boys, there is a need for change those bad old days of when you never questioned a preist or a garda's actions or words are gone, they are no longer immune from criticism of there failings improve the garda for all of us.
Good luck to the wheelock family. I admire there strength in the face of this intimidation.

by dermot barry Thu Jul 27, 2006 23:16 Cork

read through most of this stuff on terence wheelock, as ive heard a few mention it in the past, i'm from togher in rebel land, and altough there's a good quality policing we have heard of hidings been dished out, and i'm sure other citys and counties are the same, espeacially after a night out and some ejit gives a gaurd grief, i have to say and i'm fairly on there side as i went to school with a couple of gaurds.
They do take liberties when people are drunk and acting the ejit a lot wake up fairly sore with a couple of charge sheets and a black or sore ribs for public order offences. judging by this it looks like one or two of these gaurds go to far, there must be no tolerence of any sort of violence in a garda station, i feel politicians and the general public in a way condone this sort of behaviour, when a certain level of violence becomes excepable. who draws the boundry mark when its not suppose to be happening in the first place?
as we can see from the wheelock case. who draws the line?

by Tim Wed Aug 09, 2006 19:33

Larry Wheelock jnr appeared in the IOS gone, it was a story about a prosecution the gardai brought after five years the charge, was in relation to a butter knife! that larry had on him .
He was preparing lunch and decided to go for cigerattes absentmindedly put the butterknife in his pocket he was subsequently charged.
despite him living at his mothers address and very prominent in his brothers campaign for answers in to his death.
the gardai decided to prosecute him after five years,
the judge however was not to impressed and threw the charge out saying the gardai had ample opportunity to prosecute him but only waited till now,
his lawyers stated that there was an ulterior motive involved,
because larry has been leading a very public campaign in to answers in to his brothers death, and that indeed justice delayed is justice denied,
larry said that if they jailed him there would be an other family member to take his place, and that this was all part of the gaurds strategy to silence the family and there campaign and part of the ongoing campaign of intimidation,
The gaurd prosecuting the charge could not explain why it has taken five years to prosecute a simple summary charge,,
She stated that" it landed on her desk " but did not know how it got there! And she then had to proceed with the charge. It was then thrown out of court.
vindicating larrys claim that it was part of an orchestrated campaign of harrassment on behalf of garda members.

by Pondering Fri Aug 11, 2006 13:02

so ..... "He was preparing lunch and decided to go for cigerattes absentmindedly put the butterknife in his pocket he was subsequently charged"

Now be honest, who here actually believes that? How many of you have honestly placed a knife (Which I assume had butter all over it yeah?? ;) into your pocket as you left the house? This man was caught in the street with a knife which he was deliberatly carrying. We all know it but some of you all wish to cover your eyes. If I was caught carrying a knife I would be arrested as would any other man, woman or child. There's no point playing down everything these people do when it's very obvious what kind of people they are. All you're doing is lessening your own case/point. If the Gardai have a case to answer to then fair enough but from reading about this it would appear that all the circumstances under which these people had trouble with the Gardai have some laughable story (handing out leaflets, making lunch) If there is going to be an inquest to put the family's minds at rest then at least make it factual.

by StripeyCat Fri Aug 11, 2006 14:44

He was arrested for carrying a butterknife to the shop near his house. What did the guards think he was going to do? Rob the place? With a butter knife? At least the judge had sense to throw the case out...

by concerned Mon Aug 21, 2006 15:52

dont think an inquest " is giong to put the familys minds at rrest" as you say, pondering.
There is a lot of serious and troubling questions concering the death of terence wheelock, which still have not been answered to date and the revelations about the handling and withholding of terence clothes which is holding the inquest up a 16 months after the gardai took these clothes without permission,
under the guise at the time for a potential criminal investigation, they have fought tooth and nail through the courts with holding these clothes, fuelling further that there is a cover up going on from the top down.
namely "independent internal affairs investigater "oliver hanley has used his dual role in to hampering the inquest and the establishment of an independent inquiry, which is now a matter of time and inevitable, as the gardai's extremely limited version of events in the form of a press release, dont tally with records or evidence, the press release is afarce and insult as it mainly deals with the damge to the car and and offers no insight in to what happened terence and the injuries, bruises and trauma to his head, in fact the release waters down and lies about terence condition when admitted to hospital, also lies about emergency personal noting no marks or bruise, they never stated this and have come out and said so.
The COURTS have thrown the case concerning the butterknife out, if it was that important how come it took five years to proceed with the charge?

Why did the judge state that its prosecution was strange to say the least, and why did the prosecuting ban garda, state the" it just landed on her desk" strange alright.

This case will not go away.

a very young man lost his life in the custody and care of the gardai and they have to answer for this, maybe years ago people swallowed the crap that police dish out when they've got there hands dirty, when people start dieing in there care in" suicide proof cells" well the mud sticks and a shabby press release concerning property is not going to ease the general publics minds
Good luck to the wheelock family there questions deserve to be answered, and backed up with crimanal prosecutions against gardai not the family!

by oliver woods Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:23

" there's no piont playing down, when its very obvious what kind of people these are"
well pondering what kind of people are they?
and just were are you coming from?
I remember larry wheelock on joe duffys liveline,
when FR peter mcverry alluded to the assumption that terence wheelocks death in garda custody contributed to the riots in the love ulster parade.
Larry came on denounced the claim and condemed the violence in oconnel st, he came across to me and my fellow workmates, as articalate, well spoken, and still grieving his brothers death, and through all the marchs and protests the family have acted in an exemplary way, acting with dignity and respect, in a democratic vioce, when a riot could easily have started with the support and a lot of angry people in the community, but he has always urged along with his brother robert that its is apeaceful and dignified protest, any leaflet or flyer that i have read, has always stated this, why are they som respected in their community when they protest hundreds turn out to support the strange death of terence wheelock? because everyone know the the gaurds do attack youths in punishment beatings, and they have assaulted larry and member of his family in a disgraceful way driving them out of their homes, they deserve all are support, they must for truth and to prevent this happening again continue to fight for anwers.

by Will Not remain Silent - Support Thu Nov 23, 2006 18:12

I would like to comment on the socialist who makes claims that to be honest they should get the gold star for aiding and abetting the corrupt arm of the law in this country.

Firstly before I continue I would like to sympathise with the Wheelock family and also their neighbours but know this that your son is looking down upon you and will guide you to the truth. No I am not a religious freak should anyone ask but I believe what goes around will eventually come around and there is nothing wrong with having faith after all now is there?

I have suffered at the hands of the CORRUPT SYSTEM in place right now and have information that it goes all the way to the top and believe you me I could care less anymore if these people killed me as they have threatened with their phone calls late at night and now one of the main culprits is about to retire with only a few weeks notice? Very strange indeed

This crew is a large crew because they have access to all your information and are not only protected by a uniform they are also protected by a wealth which is created by complete robbery “THE BERTIE HOOD" they use your own money to discredit you, criminalise you and then try psychologically break you because when you look for help from their front line its not there.

Just think now how many people have looked for help reported it to the Guards and then been killed but yet it they had no account of that person making a statement. This Island is gone to the dogs and the ones who are to blame are Fianna Fail but the others are not much better. Take for instance the Fianna Fail clan is someone is socially recognised for their status they are head hunted by Fianna Fail no wonder the country is in such a state. Then you have independents that get voted as an independent person and join the Fianna Fail crew another tactic.

So how do we solve it you might say well I have the answer and if people are interested in getting involved and have some political background and that means anything to start a new party, YES that’s the way as the saying goes OUT WITH THE OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW. But remember this Fianna Fail and the rest of you for to join this party there will be a contract to sign that once an inside form of corruption has been detected you contract clearly will state that a very severe prison penalty will be served.

Now To the people of this Island together we stand divided we will fall, this government have hit every corner from TAXI DRIVERS to NURSES to OUR OLDER PEOPLE IN HEALTH CARE to the Wheelocks loss of one of their family members and this not only saddens me but angers me greatly.

I haven't slept properly now for the past two and a half years and as I have discovered over time I am not alone. What I am referring to here is a corrupt circle of business people who tried to force my business to do something and when I refused to do so was seen as a target of the CORRUPT SYSTEM:

Let me explain my theory on this shall I and hope that I will not upset anyone "SURE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE MEAL"

The Government: "HE DIDN'T EAT THE DINNER"

The Minister for Justice: and his two line replies passing the buck to the Garda Commissioner, so you wrote to the justice minister about a complaint of a Gardaí and you are redirected back to the Gardaí?

The Garda Commissioner: with his below level superintendents giving you their standard two line letter, if I wanted to write to a superintendent I would? So what’s the point in the Garda commissioner I have to ask? Did the disgraced Superintendent in Donegal ever write one of these two lined letters?

Your local TD: Oh!! Now that’s civil you will have to go to a solicitor about this

The Solicitor: Now lets me see three years later the former president’s brother said he could not help you but you could keep trying

So these people wonder why we human beings get angry and for those of us who have never studied law or anything else in this country and I speak for the elderly or the poorer people who had to work before education the 99% of us that is.

THE GARDAÍ: "PUT A MAN ON THE DEVILS HORSE BACK AND HE'LL RIDE IT ALL THE WAY TO HELL"

This corrupt circle if left to their own devices any longer with instil distrust and fear amongst every single person, people are so angry these days that families can't even communicate as families no more it’s disgusting. "DEVIDE AND CONQUER" that is their way as far as I am concerned.

People the only way to get justice now is to vote all these people out but not vote another old party but a new one a one that will clearly be transparent but not independent because to be honest their voice will never be heard. Don't be in the dip of the mountain shout from the top. Please if you have any experience in any area and are fed up with this way of live you are been forced to lead contact through here and support this family, and if you do not have any experience in any area but want to help and eventually you will gain knowledge and experience please also contact through here and support the Wheelock family.

ISN'T IT TIME WE TOOK OUR COUNTRY AND WAY OF LIVING BACK FROM THESE PEOPLE?

AGAIN MY CONDOLANCES TO THE WHEELOCK FAMILY

I am sorry but because I am curently a target by this system I will have to with hold my contact details for now but please do not let this put you off from joining in this quest to form a new justice group.

by gerard wqll - none Sun Aug 24, 2008 00:35 gerardw at vodafone dot ie 58 the woodlands navan co meath 0873220353

hi my name is gerard wall/deans and i knew young terrence lord rest his soul like many people in the north inter city i grew up with the wheelock family and they where decent people who worked hard all there life and l still are and do what the gardia have been doing to the wheelock family is and was a disgrace no-one deserved to die the way terrence died and to the family who i know personaly i hope they get justice so terances soul can rest in peace to larry jackie cavin sammy elaine and the wheelock family i am very sorry over the dead of young terrence on behalf of the deans family we are behind you all the way the truth will come out i knew terrance since he was young and he was a great person