Dairy Farmer admits cows are beaten in the milking parlour when being trained to be milked

by ciara Sat Nov 18, 2006 21:47

Good to here that you admit it is "not very pleasent" for chickens to be debeaked. Great sense of empathy you display there sabwatch...

Re a better system, I would think that the present amount of meat being consumed in the western world is completely unsustainable in terms of land use, water production etc. Surely even you wouldn't bother disputing this? If we are to consume less meat then there would be no need for mass production on the present scale so cruel practices could be minimized.

I was unaware that the Chinese had such a varied diet, perhaps someone more knowledgable could elaborate, however they do provide a large population as do the Japanese provide a better one. Japanes people don't eat dairy yet their lifespans compare very well with us in the western world.

re my link to the PCM, this is actually the PCRM, (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine). There are many more links that could have been posted but I thought for someone like you, this might be more credible.

Lots of children have been brought up sans dairy, yes indeed. Do you really think that each and every society in the world consumes huge amounts of dairy products??

by SABWATCH Sat Nov 18, 2006 16:03

Good choice for "facts" there Ciara.NOT!!!A web source that can be changed or updated by anyone???
Please do give us an example of an illegal prasctises in the Irish Ag industry.I'm sure the DOA would like to prosecute anyone using growth hormones in any Ag industry nowadays. It is quite simple how you increase body weight in fowl that is going to be slaughterd.You feed them salty meal,and give them plenty of water.Totally legal.Do you know why chickens or debeaked,not necessarily the battery hens,which i agree in principle is not very pleasent.But unless somone can suggest a better system that is saf,easy to run etc,it's all that is there.Free range wont cut it either for mass production.Wild chickens you say??Goodness!!!Where??The domestic chicken hasnt been wild since proably the bronze age.

The Chinese are hardly the best example for a milk or anything meat free society.They eat literally everything!!! From coackroaches to it is rumoured themselves[Soylent Green anyone?] Ricketts,and osterporisios,stunted growth,and numerous other diseases abounds there as well,that we dont have in the West.
Your link to PCM is dubious at best as this is a site for a vegan lifestyle.Be about as logical as me posting a weblink to a pro normal medical website.

Lots of children that have never been brought up on milk??A very sweeping sweeping there.Anyone ever done a scientific study on this???

Well, if you cant stand the heat Ciara,time to quit the sauna!!! Any more straw arguements?

by Ciara R Sat Nov 18, 2006 01:45

To use the example of the chicken, these are made to gain weight through the routine use of growth hormones, artificial light on most of the 24 hour period among other unnatural conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken

Do you really think that debeaked chickens are happy? Or chickens kept in overcramped conditions never seeing the light of day, nevermind being able to act as they would in the wild with nearly all of their natural instincts suppressed? I wouldn't think they are, even you Sabwatch couldn't argue that they are. But they still manage to put on weight, funny that! I could give examples relating to pigs and cattle.

Relating to dairy in the diet and the argument that we need it, there are many, many cultures where milk is not and never has been a part of their diet, as I have already said, the Chinese. Lots of children have been brought up without dairy (apart from their mother's milk) and are quite healthy.

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/milk.html

For a moment there I thought you were actually going to engage in a proper debate Sabwatch, without resorting to abuse!!

by SABWATCH Fri Nov 17, 2006 20:20

Ciara,
You and your type seem to think every person who has anything to do with anials are some sort of psycho sadist out to inflict maximum pain on their animals.It is a total illogical stance,to rear an animal and then beat it senseless if you are going to sell it to make money.Does not happen.
A stressed animal wont gain weight.

Also you are somwhat misinformed on the steroids,etc.It has been banned in beef animals here in the EU since 1987.And in animal foods since 1990,ever wonder why farmers are fined so heavily for having "angel dust"? Plus protien meal is the same stuff you use in spirlunia or body building drinks.Which is not steroids.

By and large yes we do have healthy thyroids in the West ,that is in post 1936 to 1948 generation of countries like Germany,France,UK and any European country involved in ww2 where milk was rationed or unavailable to the general pouplation.Very common in Germany in that generation.

In your opinion.Are you a dietician,doctor,nutrionist,etc??
If so please let us know on what stas you are basing that opinion???Or are you just arguing the toss because you belive anything to do with animals is cruel,and some nut group like PETA ,etc says so??. would think the thyroid,osterporisis stats in those generations would be enough of a convincing arguement.
True,milk is for calves,but we can hardly go aroung milking women can we??
Best example would be somone have a kid.Dont feed it any animal milk based products and by age ten ,compare it medically to any other milk fed kids and see the difference in health,bone structure etc.Put tis nonsenseseical arguement to bed once and for all.

by Ciara R Fri Nov 17, 2006 17:47

nothing weird about my example I don't think, after all isn't breast milk a natural thing? I used the example to try and help dispel the often used by farmers that in order for animals to used in the food chain they must be well treated. I've lost count of the amount of times I have heard the argument that for them to put on weight, chickens/lamb etc need to be content!! More like a steady supply of hormones and protein foods...

I was unaware of any connection between thyroid problems and a lack of milk in the diet.

By this rationale, Americans and Westerners in general should have brilliantly functioning thyroid glands.

The amount of milk products consumed by us in the West is unnatural in my opinion, and the fact that dairy products are marketed to us as a health promoting food is just wrong. Milk is for calves...

by SABWATCH Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:07

You have to beat them to get them to move to whereever you want them to go.BUT there is a huge difference than giving them a whack on the ass than taking a baseball bat and comitting GBH on them.

Ciara ,to use your weird example of beaten women and producing milk.If we were drinking human milk, post natal mothers would be getting better care than they would be now,because their milk would be a valueable commodity.Although our pouplation bomb would be somthing to be seen.
BTW The Japanese suffer pretty badly from thryoid gland problems,along with those westners who were of the war generation when in Europe milk was extremly rationed or totally unavailable for children.Even from their mothers as extreme stress changes the body function of women as well.Just a Fact!!
So if you do ever have a kid,dont feed it any milk products at all,and see what sort of health problems it will have inlater life.

by Ciara Roche Fri Nov 17, 2006 03:20 ciarams1 at hotmail dot com

As Bernie correctly points out, a farmer has stated that cows are beaten in the milking parlour, not animal rights activists. Dinny - cows produce milk as they have had a calf, not because they are "happy".

By the way, I have known lactating women who are far from being happy, due to being beaten by their partner - they still managed to produce milk for their baby. That myth that farmers need to keep their animals happy so that they can be used for food really doesn't fool anybody!!

Milk, that is milk from cows, is for baby cows. We are the only species that ingests milk from a different species as a regular part of our diet. Despite the Western diet that is high in dairy, we still have high rates of osteoporosis. People with diets containing alot less dairy than ours - such as the Japanese - seem to have stronger bones. It just can't be good, eating food meant for a baby cow.

by B Wright Thu Nov 16, 2006 23:40

If those joking about this could read the article correctly. they would know it was a FARMER who said that Cows were beaten,,,not Animal Rights people. ring the farmer concerned if you dont believe the reporter.

by AR supporter Thu Nov 16, 2006 22:23

Dinny the farmer, as somebody who earns a living exploiting animals in this way it is hardly surprising that you rush to defend such practices. Happy Cows?? Never heard such rubbish in all my life and Ive heard a lot. How can a cow be happy when she spends her whole life being artificially impregnated by humans then her baby is usually taken away from her at only days old so that she can be milked and then impregnated again while she is still lactating and crying for her baby. Happy cows dont produce milk?? Cows dont have a choice in the matter and their happiness doesnt come into it its all about profit profit and more profit and whether or not she is happy she will be forcebly impregnated and milked and impregnated and milked and seperated from her babies while they often go to the veal crates and are given a milk subsitute so the milk her body made for them can be stolen from her for humans. Happy Cows?? Then I suppose shes still happy when its off to the slaughter house when she has fulfilled her use as a milking machine. Happy farmers more like!!

by dinny the farmer Thu Nov 16, 2006 01:32

This is like something out of monty python. Its really funny. I have fond memories of milking cows in north cork. No dairy farmer beats his cattle. If he did the bloody cows wouldn't give any milk.

Well milking cows are happy cows, so i think you'll find that all except the most stupid farmers strive to make the milking parlour experience a very happy one for all the cows.

When a young heifer first has a calf, she then comes into this world.
she has no understanding or experience of standing still for 5 minutes while some human attaches strange suction cups to her teats. Some heifer adapt quickly. others need more time. Invariably, nearly all first time milkers require that the farmer put a KICKING BAR on the animal. this is a curved bar like a "C" which hooks the heifir under the leg and hooks on over the back bone. it immobilises the leg, so the farmer milks in peace, and the heifir gradually begins to realise that the farmer is not out to harm her.

she even gets extra feed and feels refreshed when she's finished!!!

Ban kicking bars!!! ha ha ha. that is so funny. i'm laughing as i write this.

I would suggest you get a holiday in the country. get a job with a farmer. YOu'd be amazed what you'd learn. But for god's sake take your head out of the books/clouds.