Provos engage to point of adopting Unionist position

by cev Mon Apr 23, 2007 21:06

Your main issue seems to be with Sinn Féin, rather than with the British.

Maybe you should divert some of your energy towards more constructive plans to change the political situation, rather than constantly sniping...

by True Republican Mon Apr 23, 2007 22:10

My problem is not merely with the shamed Provisionals, but primarily with the Brits. The Provos and the Brits are now, however, one and the same. They so ably aid and abet their paymasters and spymasters, and in doing so label themselves enemies of the Irish people.

by c Tue Apr 24, 2007 00:32

so what have you done recently about the British?

by true democrat Tue Apr 24, 2007 08:59

I seem to remember an election a few weeks ago when this policy got a huge mandate. OK it didn't please everyone but hey that's the bummer about democracy. You can call it what you like, collaboration/sellout/counter revolutionary, but if the "People" didn't want it I assume they were "Clued in" enough to make their voices heard via the afore mentioned election. The truth is there are dissenters on both sides but the policies were made crystal clear before the election and SF and the DUP came out with clear mandates. I had hoped we could be thinking about moving forward, but it seems some people can't accept that when you give people the choice they might not ask for what you want. It's much easier to run the community under a cloud of fear and violence so you can tell them want they want. Forget trying to win a war, try and win the argument instead.

by gan ainm Tue Apr 24, 2007 19:05

It's as simple as this, $inn Fein have justified absolutely every concession by claiming that they are changing the state from within. Yet time and time and time again their initiatives effectively change them. You cannot be a revolutionary policeman, it's a contradiction in terms. I in fact suspect that sinn fein police men may be the most corrupt and vicious we have seen yet as they will no doubt be operating with nods and winks from 'the boys' which they believe will give them extra judicial powers.
Provos are buying up properties all over the country, they are amongst the most successful estate agents no longer championing public housing but using the cover of residents groups to decide who lives were to keep middle class house price aspirations intact.
The thought of this sort of filthy anti republican / anti revolutionary caper being backed up by a police force will signal the ultimate abandonment of revolutionary thinking, moreso than even decomissioning.
Many of the hardest adams men are even realizing this and are walking.
Yes the Sinn Fein vote is massive, it rose in correlation with the SDLPs demise, does that mean the stoops are now revolutionaries?
All cops are B------s, these will be no different.

by gan ainm Tue Apr 24, 2007 19:18

It's as simple as this, Sinn Fein have justified absolutely every concession by claiming that they are changing the state from within. Yet time and time and time again and slowly but surely their initiatives effectively change them. You cannot be a revolutionary policeman, it's a contradiction in terms. I in fact suspect that sinn fein police men may be the most corrupt and vicious we have seen yet as they will no doubt be operating with nods and winks from 'the boys' which they will believe gives them extra judicial powers.
Provos are buying up properties all over the country, they are amongst the most successful estate agents no longer championing public housing but using the cover of DIY residents groups to decide who lives where to keep middle class house price aspirations intact.
The thought of this sort of filthy anti anti revolutionary caper being backed up by a police force will signal the ultimate abandonment of revolutionary thinking, more so than even decomissioning.
Many of the hardest adams men are even realizing this and are walking.
Yes the Sinn Fein vote is massive, it rose in correlation with the SDLPs demise, does that mean that all those ex stoops are now revolutionaries?
If the countries demographics have changed by 2016 (for there will not be a 'national republic') it will only be because Britain has left a country in it's own image.
Former revolutionaries championing home ownership over public housing, initiating private investment in health, becoming lord mayors and joining the police is the ultimate success for Thatcherism and indeed proves that if you treat them like protestants they will act like protestants.
The war is over, but if real revolutionary progress ever occurs the new SF police men will be first in on top of us. All cops are bastards. They wont be getting near my door.

by black man ray Wed Apr 25, 2007 00:36

Sinn Fein and their policies were mandated by the vast majority of both catholics and unionist on both sides of the border.. who mandated you? I'ts about time RIRA and CIRA put up or shut up. either get involved politically and stop whining or give up and concede that the people of this country are sick of your hatred, sick of your recruiting unstable teenagers and filling them with your bigotry and SICK of your drug peddling friends. You make a mockery of this fine country

by Patrick Henry Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:08

$inn Fein apologists like Ray keep churning out the same drivel when trying to excuse the partitionist direction of their leadership. They keep clutching at the straws handed to them by that leadership and that is the conformist crap churned out by the SDLP, the Brits and the Unionists during the 70s and 80s; wheres your mandate? the vast majority of people don't support you, Association with drug dealers, blah, blah.
Did the same leadership now adopting the attitude of their former enemies heed those who used this argument then? No they didn't they continued to wage war against the wishes of that majority and people died.
I am not for a continuation of the war but when I see people who have sacrificed lives to get to a position where they are the majority Nationalist party now using their mandate to bolster British rule in Ireland and using the same propaganda, like association with drug dealers it turns my stomach. 10 men died to dispel that propaganda so I find your accusations despicable.

by Sharon . - Individual Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:28

' IRA Provisionals were described last night as cowards and criminals by the Stormont Premier , Mr. Chichester-Clark , when he addressed a Unionist meeting in Dunmurray :
" The IRA and , above all , the so-called Provisionals , are not , as they would claim , patriots at all . Some are certainly mere criminals , placing bombs for kicks and robbing banks for personal as well as for political gain . Others are equally certainly cowards who lurk in the deep shadows as they push into the street an eight-or-nine-year-old with a petrol bomb in his hand . All are alike in their contempt for freedom ." '
(From 'The Irish Independent' 'newspaper' , February 4th , 1971).

How does it feel , 'Ray' , to be echoing the words of those whom , I presume , you once politically opposed ?
For shame .

Sharon .

by lights Wed Apr 25, 2007 13:23

Republican Sinn Féin: Obsessed with the past, the keyboard warriors of RSF continue their one-sided war of words with Sinn Féin and anyone else who has a coherent plan to end British rule in Ireland. Taking seats in Stormont and becoming a major player in Leinster House will not advance the cause of Irish re-unification, say these tiresome obsessives, nor will representing the views of the majority of the nationalist population- only attacking the "Provos" will do that.

Disdaining any interest in improving the lives of working-class people, or trying to undermine the control of the 26 county state by big business, the brave freedom fighters of RSF choose instead to battle for Irish independence by writing "Sinn Féin" with a $ instead of an S. Tyhey are always ready to harp on about the 1986 ard fheis, make specious points about things that happened in the 1970's and discuss whether any mandate is necessary for them to carry out armed actions (this last aspect of the debate is purely academic).

Asked why the party did not use some time and energy to opening constituency offices in deprived areas to hold advice clinics and help people, spokesman for RSF Mr Rory O' History seemed confused by the question. "People don't need help or advice in dealing with housing problems, medical cards, child care, rent allowance etc -and besides they can get all that form the sell-out Provos, "said Mr O'History. "What people really need is more and more rambling commentary on websites, attacking Sinn Féin".

by Gan ainm Wed Apr 25, 2007 15:20

For whats it's worth to some above commentators, I believe the war is over and dont support CIRA, RIRA or anyone else when they pretend otherwise. I hate the thought of young people being recruited under such false beliefs. But that doesnt mean I have to buy wholesale into reformist sticky crap as is being indirectly proposed by sinners on this bord.

by Patrick Henry Wed Apr 25, 2007 15:50

Ah, again the same drivel about $inn Feign freeing us from British rule from the halls of that bastion of Unionism Stormont. Right, we'll pretend to prop up what is essentially a puppet Government and when the time is right we'll demand reunification and socialism, then throw Shell out of Ireland.
People like me keep harping back to the past because that is where $inn Feign have taken us, back to Sunningdale and the political rhetoric of John Hume, the only difference today is that the $hinners are now the darlings of the British establishment, eager to show that they are worthy to serve under the puppet master Paisley. So eager are you to please that you have also dug up the propaganda from those distant days to use against those still seeking to remove the British presence from our shores.
As for becoming the major player in Leinster House do you mean like FF that you will aid and assist the British in their attempts to smash opposition to the occupation of our county or that you will use the Gardai to protect the interests of multinationals like Shell over the rights of your fellow countrymen and women. For an answer to that you only have to look to Derry where families were evicted from their homes on Donnybrewer Road by a $inn Feign and SDLP controlled council at the behest of Ryanair.

by Patrick Henry Wed Apr 25, 2007 16:08

I must also add that I agree with Gan ainm in that I don't believe that violence is a way forward as I was once as idealistic as those young people who would see this as a way to remove British rule. I believe that the time is right for all true Republicans to build an alternative to those who would keep us locked in the shackles of British rule while pretending they have the key to our release.
To all these True Republicans I would say start building now for there are long hard years ahead and violence shouldn't play any further part in the way ahead.

by rooster Wed Apr 25, 2007 16:26

they MUST sit down with unionists and cooperate in the running of this state, the only alternative is a return to the old politics of abstentionism and negativity, quite simply if republicans don't engage with unionists on policving we won't share power with them at the big white house on the hill. Also, the US will make its displeasure abundantly clear like they have over the last few years, Rooster

by Patrick Henry Wed Apr 25, 2007 17:01

Mmm, right Rooster, what you're saying is, that the $hinners are being told to sit down and eat their peas or else the man in the Whitehouse will keep them grounded.

by Sharon . - Individual. Wed Apr 25, 2007 18:25

Hi Lights !

Not "obsessed with the past " , no . But willing to learn from it !
The "keyboard" work done on sites like 'Indymedia' by myself and other RSF members/supporters is more often than not to promote and publicise events organised by RSF and to answer/reply to queries and/or comments which those posts open up .

" Taking seats in Stormont and becoming a major player in Leinster House will not advance the cause of Irish re-unification, say these tiresome obsessives, nor will representing the views of the majority of the nationalist population- only attacking the "Provos" will do that. "
Which Provo was it that stated -
" The one thing I have to emphasise , that all republicans are united on , is that electoral politics will not remove the British from Ireland . Only armed struggle will do that ." ?

Please note that your "specious" 'insult' has backfired , as 'specious' means " plausible" . Thanks !

The 'lights' are on , but there's no-one home!

Sharon .

by Noon Wed Apr 25, 2007 18:56

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/specious

by Sharon . - Individual . Wed Apr 25, 2007 19:15

'High' Noon !

My trusted 'lil book , 'The New Standard Dictionary' , defines that word as per my last post .
Your source does not .

I suspect 'Lights' was (incorrectly!) aiming for the word 'spurious' , but hit the wrong switch...key...instead!

By the way - any 'definition' for the 'Who Said' question in the same post ?

Thanks!

Sharon .

by BERNIAN Wed Apr 25, 2007 19:52

Specious: Apparently good or right though lacking real merit; superficially pleasing or plausible: specious arguments; having deceptive attraction or allure.

"Specious" traces to the Latin word "speciosus," meaning "beautiful" or "plausible," and Middle English speakers used it to mean "visually pleasing." But by the 17th century, "specious" had begun to suggest an attractiveness that was superficial or deceptive, and, subsequently, the word's neutral "pleasing" sense faded into obsolescence.

The source is every dictionary in the world except yours. Presumably RSF give out ancient, out-of-date dictionaries with meanings that everybody else stopped using hundreds of years ago, to go along with the general atmosphere of the rest of the party.

by Sharon . - Individual . Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:07

Hi BERNIAN!

Thank You for taking the time to comment : a bit on the nasty side , perhaps , but I shall try and turn same into a positive !

If , indeed , "The source is (in) every dictionary in the world..." then it would be in mine , too !
And RSF do not give out dictionaries , Bernian , but, if they did , they would include the word 'in' , I'd wager !
By the way , your sign-in name -although not listed in my (still-)trusty 'New Standard' dictionary- has a tale to tell :

http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/translation/B...rnian

'Bernian' of what , one wonders..... !

Take care ,

Sharon .

by land fling Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:53

I hope you can understand this.

You claimed that you had a dictionary that gave a different meaning of the word specious, a meaning that stopped being common sometime about 300 years ago, and said something like "your source has a different definition" as if this "source" was some obscure internet site.

The source [of the meaning of the word specious] is every dictionary in the world.

Look up the word "specious" on google, or any other search engine. Go into a library or bookshop and gather dictionaries around you. Ask anyone.

It seems that you can only argue about how things were better before 1986. On abny other subject you seem to find it difficult to follow what's going on. My advice would be that you'd better stick to bashing Sinn Féin (sorry, those turncoats who split from real Republicanism in 1986) and not try to engage with this or any other comments which stray too far from that trusty topic.

by black man ray Thu Apr 26, 2007 00:23

re: gan ainm comments thank you for pointing out your stand on recruiting young people and opposition to CIRA and RIRA and I must indeed apologise for my Bigotism in painting you with that brush. sorry. To clarify I am far from a Shinner and wouldnt vote for them in any instance.. I live in Ferris' constituency and have seen the damage he has done in the name of his party.. I was onl\y pointing out that the ongoing resistance and ill thought anti agreement stance some people in that establishment have only serves the purpose of more dead bodies.. I do not want my children growing up in a country where people hate each other for the sake of history.. is míse le meas

by Sharon . - Individual . Thu Apr 26, 2007 00:29

Hi 'Land Fill...Fling' !

" I hope you can understand this."
Well , if you 'that it slowly' , I might ! ;-)

"You claimed that you had a dictionary that gave a different meaning of the word specious, a meaning that stopped being common sometime about 300 years ago, and said something like "your source has a different definition" as if this "source" was some obscure internet site."
I actually have two such dictionaries , but I will not post information regarding the second one .
'Cause you'll only slag me about that , too !
(...but I must say it was jolly decent of RSF to give me two such books ;-) )

"The source [of the meaning of the word specious] is every dictionary in the world. "
Dropping the word 'in' again , I note . Oh wait - that was a different poster , wasn't it ... ?

"Look up the word "specious" on google, or any other search engine. Go into a library or bookshop and gather dictionaries around you. Ask anyone. "
....but I 'asked' my (still-)trusty 'New Standard' and posted the information therein . I am now looking for a whitewashed wall to stand the damn thing up against...!

"It seems that you can only argue about how things were better before 1986. "
Where have you been , 'Land Fill' ? 'Things' were not really better before then , either .

"On abny other subject you seem to find it difficult to follow what's going on. "
If it's in relation to a post you put together , I wouldn't think I'd be the only one!

"My advice would be that you'd better stick to bashing Sinn Féin (sorry, those turncoats who split from real Republicanism in 1986) and not try to engage with this or any other comments which stray too far from that trusty topic."
Damn it !
I suppose I had better do that , alright . If it was 'abny' one other than your good self offering me such advice I'd tell 'em where to park it !

Sharon .

by Democrat Thu Apr 26, 2007 08:24

Mr Henry. As a democrat I respect everyones right to their own opinion. You make some very valid points, but I must question you when you seem dismiss having a mandate as an irrelavance. "Blah blah blah, nobody votes for us, but hey let's just hold everything back until we get our own way" I can't agree with that.