Aggressive policing at blockade of Shell HQ in Dublin

by Joe - WSM - Lucy Parsons - personal capacity Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:41

Audio to follow

Determination

They shall not pass

But they will try

Watching from behind Gardai lines

Top cop arrives on the scene

by Jack Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:47

Great report and photos.
Keep us all informed.

by tnc - shell chun saile corcai Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:23

Great stuff lads more of the same lets highlight this during election time - well done from cork!

by Joe Fri Apr 27, 2007 14:13

Another sequence of photos - indymedia feel free to delete any of these or those that follow if its too many - I think they give a good feel of the scale of this morning

Why the gloves on such a warm day?

by Joe Fri Apr 27, 2007 14:16

These are of the last car to attempt to enter - they gave up after a few minutes

by Joe Fri Apr 27, 2007 14:18

Final set with the closing shot of the banner taken near the start of the morning

by Rev Malcolm X - Church of Marx Fri Apr 27, 2007 14:29

Nice One
let's keep up the pressure. garda John Keeneghan is one of the cops from Pearse street . known to have been involved in attacks against peace-ful protesters in the past. another is A 153, who began to loose his head.

by Celia S Fri Apr 27, 2007 14:33

Well done to all involved. You are a fine example of participating and concerned citizens

Turn up the heat!

CS

by Dan Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:34

Well done to all involved!!
Lets have some more of this type of action!!

by J.Carax - WSM Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:35

!

by J.Carax - WSM Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:41

!

by J.Carax Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:44

!

by Simon Wiesenthal - None Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:58

Probably got expense accounts too

Multinational fascist collaborators

by Sharon D Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:24

The breaking news service on unison.ie, part of Tony O'Reilly's propaganda wing, is carrying a report entitled: "Shell Ireland criticises Shell To Sea's blockade tactics". The funny thing is that they report Shell's response, but they didn't report the actual blockade!

Somebody issuing a press release about a blockade is news. Somebody actually doing a blockade is not news.

by tnc corcaí - tnc Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:32

Shell protesters blockade HQ

Kath Kyle

Campaigners protesting against Shell's Corrib gas pipeline in Co Mayo prevented workers at the company's Dublin office from entering the building, they claimed today.

The Shell to Sea Dublin campaign said around 60 activists gathered at Shell's Leeson Street office and prevented most of the staff from entering early this morning.

Finbar Dwyer of Dublin Shell to Sea said: "This was a successful non-violent direct action in solidarity with the besieged communities around Shell's refinery site at Bellanaboy. It was also intended to highlight the giveaway of Ireland's offshore gas."

But Shell claimed the protest was "aggressive" and that a number of its employees were knocked to the ground during the events.

The campaigners accused gardaí of using "excessive force" at the protest this morning and said several activists received "minor injuries". "Garda heavy-handedness failed to prevent our blockade - apart from about eight staff members who got in," said Mr Dwyer.

The campaigners called off their action at around 11am.

A spokeswoman for Shell challenged the campaign's claim that the protest was non-violent. She told ireland.com that the protest was "quite aggressive" and that a number of employees were "jostled and knocked to the ground", and that many were the subject of "verbal and physical abuse".

"Shell respects everyone's right to protest peacefully, and we regret that this protest was not peaceful," she added. "We encourage everyone to enter into a dialogue with us rather than resort to physical violence."

A Garda spokesman told ireland.com that if protesters had any disagreements with how the demonstration was handled they should "make a complaint to the Garda Complaints Board".

He said there were no arrests.
© 2007 ireland.com

by Witness Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:38

As somone who was at the blockade this morning, i can say that absolutely no Shell employees were 'jostled and knocked to the ground'.

Compelte fabrication and lies on Shell Ireland's part.

by Tim Kelly Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:43

Looks to me (from the photos) that there was aggression on both sides. You can certainly see Gardai being jostled. Bit of a stretch to call this one "peaceful"!

by Witness Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:54

I accept that there was a certain amount of pushing and shoving on both sides.

But i deplore the lies that Shell Ireland say in reagrd to employees being knocked to the ground or one of their cars being vandalised.

Solidarity withe the besiged community in Erris, Co. Mayo.

by Joe Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:01

I saws everyone go in and there was no vandalism of any cars and no employee knocked to the ground.

In fact its it remarkable that although the media seemed to have talked to the Gardai they seem to have 'forgotten' to ask them to confirm either claim or if they did to report the Gardai response. Allow me to decode what I just said - the journalist who wrote this up probably did ask and knows that this was a lie but is to afraid to say so.

A simple application of logic though uncovers the lie. There were a lot of Gardai there. Does anyone believe if protesters had actually serious assaulted a Shell employee or vandalised their car that the Gardai would not have arrested the people concerned. They had the number there and they had three van loads of re-enforcements parked 150m up the street.

Shame on the 'journalist' who knowingly prints these sort of lies.

by Lord of the Dance - Dublin Shell to Sea Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:11

I was present for the whole action. Nobody touched any members of Shell's staff, except gardai who were escorting them. To say they were jostled or fell on the ground is nonsense. The kind of lie we are accustomed to hearing Shell produce. Their record of deceipt, lying, corruption and exploitation around the world is well-documented.

The Conga

Break Dancing

... and the Slow Set

... and this one's called, the mainstream media ignores the story

by daithi Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:12

UTube or liveleak video on this? Events like this should be uploaded immediately.

by S2S supporter - Indpendent Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:12

It was sad to see no visible presence from Labour Youth or Ogra Sinn Fein at todays demo.

Both too busy canvassing for the upcoming election? : /

by Joe Fri Apr 27, 2007 20:56

Due to 'technical difficulties' (forgetting a lead) it took a bit longer to prepare this than intended. Here is the ballad of Corrib house - listed for the Gardai issuing the instruction 'Drive your fucking car driver' about mid way through.

1.5mb mp3 file, around 8 minutes

Sound from outside Corrib house
Sound from outside Corrib house 1.58 Mb

by Edinburgh Resident Fri Apr 27, 2007 23:06

Well done to everyone involved in today's excellent action. Keep up the good work!

by Seán Ryan Fri Apr 27, 2007 23:39

Fair play to all concerned in today's events. It's worth saying that the good folks assembled today were facing those (Gardaí included) who are determined to give what is ours and our children's heritage away to a rich multi-national, intent on extracting wealth out of every man, woman and child in this country.

Tony O'Reilly's gang haven't reported this event simply because Sir Tony is a big fan of oil companies and the Mainstream Media (his slave-like lackeys) know which side their bread is buttered. The MSM are not representing the Irish people and are non-representative in general. At the very least RTE's extortionate and undeserved license should be boycotted.

Whilst the barricades were manned (and womanned) today, Shell continued its grasping, clawing and indeed at time downright cowardly process to make its shareholders richer and the poor, poorer.

In Kenya, Shell announced a 50% acquisition of British Petroleum (BP) yesterday, giving it a much bigger share of the African market and a much bigger share in the ownership of the Africans themselves. http://english.eastday.com/eastday/englishedition/busin....html

In Canada, Royal Dutch Shell has finished acquiring all the remaining outstanding common shares, pursuant to the COMPULSORY ACQUISITION procedures available under the Canada Business Corporations Act. They now own 100% of the common shares.

If successful in getting the securities regulators to cease to be a reporting issuer under Canadian securities laws, Shell will be relieved from its public reporting duties, effective later this month. http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archive/April2007/26/c969....html

Not everything is going Shell's way however. Earlier this month, Shell sadly announced that it had formally signed over 50% of the goodies in the Sakhalin 2 - the world's larges oil and gas export project, to the Kremlin controlled Gazprom. In the last day or two, new details of this 'contract' (arsekicking) have emerged. Shell are pretending not to be hurt, but the truth is obvious, they are pissed big time. They must now pay hundreds of millions per anum in what ammounts to a thinly disguised taxation. If only the Irish authorities would acquire such a set of balls too. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing-and-markets/arti..._id=3

Back in the auld sod itself, in Mayo specifically, PD wannabe, Tommy Cooke has pulled a rather smart publicity stunt to fuel his election campaign. Knowing that Shell isn't having a smooth ride over the people of Ireland, he's called on Shell to make a significant financial contribution to works on the N59 in north Mayo. http://www.mayoadvertiser.com/index.php?aid=1871

Keep up the great work folks. Shell have no spine for dealing with people with heart. Neither do our craven representatives.

by Seán Ryan Fri Apr 27, 2007 23:43

In the Canadian bit...

It was Shell's subsidiary, Canadian Shell, who's common shares were acquired.

by Supporter Sat Apr 28, 2007 00:39

Good protest. Good banner but for the wrong place. Outside the Dail or Government buildings - for the people who have given the gas away. Missed posters telling Shell and the public the why of the protest . Shell to Sea protests need posters with the appropriate messages. The protest is to make aware. Scuffles with Gardai not very newsworthy - if there is a protest a few scuffles is in the offing. Not a bg deal for convinced activists but that the right people get the right message, Very impressed with the number who turned out - but please the message!

by Avid Swimmer Sat Apr 28, 2007 01:11

Indeed what we need is another march far away from shells activities and a few speeches telling us how bad shell are and how their activities should be stopped by asking TDs nicley.

by Bon Sat Apr 28, 2007 03:10

Once I thought here was no passion left in life

by pro Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:13

All this does is show exactly why an ongoing Garda presence is required - the photographs above show this protest wasn't peaceful. The only people to blame for the ever increasing cost of the police are Shell to Sea. Did it ever occur to anyone that this money could be better spent and that it is YOU who are wasting tax payers money?

by MacNo - wsm pers cap Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:21

Did it ever occur to you that the deal between Shell and the State cost the taxpayers €50 billion?

by pro Sat Apr 28, 2007 13:33

how do you figure that? If all of the licence areas were nationalized the tax payer would have had to fork out for every dry well drilled over the past 3 decades - at a cost of 2billion. Besides surely if this is your beef then you rocked up at the wrong place yesterday - the Government resides on Kildare Street. What do you expect Shell to do? Volunteer to give back the gas because people like you decide to resort to bully boy tactics?

by fencer Sat Apr 28, 2007 16:01

"It was sad to see no visible presence from Labour Youth or Ogra Sinn Fein at todays demo."
(with usual anti-election sentiments afterwards)

Chances of Mayo Pipeline being stopped by blockade of employees going into Shell's office = none

Chances of Mayo Pipeline being stopped by change of Government with SF + Labour in there = slim

Blocking the entrances of Shell's office or even the Mayo site alone wont stop the pipe. COP THE FUCK ON TO THAT. "Diversity of tactics" also means respecting those who choose to try and change the power setup via elections.

"Direct action gets the goods" is bullshit - it rarely if ever gets the goods. I cant think of one instance in recent years with "activists" where it has (enlighten me). Shannon being the prime example. And even if it does seem like a victory on a community level, e.g. anti-drugs marches in town, then after a while things just revert back to the way they were.

by Barry - 32 csm Sat Apr 28, 2007 17:28

British aristocrat Tony OReilly is not just a fan of the big oil companies . He is one . The OReilly clans Providence oil are currently engagin in theft of our oil and gas resources on a bigger scale than Shells
Fair play to all involved in this action . The struggle to put an end to this theft is of national concern , its a national issue . With the press owned by the very people who are robbing our nation blind dont expect any serious reporting .
In my opinion while all avenues of protest are legitimate and should be persued, in a rotten and corrupt neo-colonial state like this it will ultimately take physical force to prevent the theft of our nations future . Many epople will have to be prepared to spend long sentences in jail if they really want this theft stopped , not just by Shell but by the other vultures after our resources as well . The thieves simply dont understand any other language . Whilst in Venezuela theres a governemtn who puts its nations and peoples sovereignty and interests to the fore in its policies with the oil companies in Ireland , a country with little or no sovereignty the situation works in reverse . Dont kid yourself that this is a liberal western democracy , at its heart its a banana republic where the people are the enemy of the state .

by Joanne - Labour Youth Sat Apr 28, 2007 19:28

Well done to all involved in the blockades. Some of the above comments appear to be criticising the lack of Labour Youth presence, with one commenter asking if we were canvassing instead?

Firstly, i can identify from the photos taken that there was Labour Youth presence at the blockade..I wasnt aware that headcounts are made on the numbers of Labour Youth members who attend demonstrations..I must wear a badge in future...

Secondly, I wasn't aware that there are people out canvassing at 7.30 in the morning..what constituency do you live in?

If you want to criticise members of Labour youth fair enough, but the reality is that Labour Youth have shown great solidarity with the Shell to Sea with members regularly attending demonstrations and blockades in Dublin and Mayo. Maybe you should direct your criticism towards the government and Shell, rather than attempting to create divisions and hostility within the campaign.

by Ciaran C Belfast Sat Apr 28, 2007 19:39

Exactly what we need to see. Shell and the government relied on the remoteness of Mayo to keep activism at a minimum this thing takes that advantage off them. The guards resources and state expensis need to stretched to the limit as opposed to S2S.
Class stuff, flying pickets are what we need now randomly and without notifacation at any of their filling stations, make them as unpopular as 'Del monte' oranges were in the 80s

by hold on Sun Apr 29, 2007 01:11

hold on! you for real?
you guys all have problems with the Gardai and Shell?

Shell are a company with stockholders who expect them to make money. If you were walking down a street and a guy gave you a bar of gold and said sell this and give the government the tax from your sale and keep the rest its excatly what you all would do! so why tthe problem with Shell (i'm speaking from a business point of view).

The Gardai are employed to uphold the law with I believe they do for the benifit for the people of Ireland. You guys can say what you like but the vast majority of these guys are great protectors of our society and I support them 100%. I cant but think your views are biased against the two sectors who are doing their job as expected.

Maybe its time to take a lawful protest to the Dail and leave the Gardai and Shell to do their job as expected?

by Seán Ryan Sun Apr 29, 2007 02:35

If you were walking down the road with your bar of gold and Bertie took it off you and gave it to Shell and you got nothing and Bertie just got a thank you from Shell - how would you feel?

And, when you expressed how you felt, Bertie used the Gardaí to beat you up on behalf of Shell - how would you feel?

When violent crime is at an all time high in this country, and the Gardaí are beating up citizens who haven't committed any crime - how would you feel?

You already answered that one. You feel great and think Shell and their boot boys are doing great job. You're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I can understand why you will remain in a perturbed state due to the fact that few if any will agree with you or follow your advice.

My advice to you is to hand over your money and valuables to a trusted and competent friend before you wander outside.

by len - reality Dept Sun Apr 29, 2007 14:54

To the protestors both here in mayo and in dublin, there was a very valid point made about the fact the costs of policing this protest are running at something like 27k per day.
As an irish citizen i can only come to the conclusion that these costs exist because of the protest. So the more you push this in the face of us tax payers well the old support tends to die, why? well there are other things that need this cash.

Personally i think you people are loosing why? the site still operates. Dr G lodged his intention to sit for a senate seat, he only recently wrote to the EU about this? Can any body wake up here? No?

Good luck, i am sure i will be paying for your lentil bean soup with my next PAYE offering.

by stamina & energy : but no outlet Sun Apr 29, 2007 15:47

& start building a swimming pool?

you're very good with figures obviously.

by Seán Ryan Sun Apr 29, 2007 15:54

It seems that reality is not your forte len.

Do you reckon the Gardaí that allegedly police these protests are just hired for the day, that the cost is surplus to what would be spent on policing regardless as to the protests?

The cost cannot be measured in cash len.

The cost is measured in priorities.

For example:

Shell and the successful theft of our resources is more important an issue than the issue of a little old lady in fear of her life when she sees someone downstarirs at night trying to break in.

Shell and their theft are more important an issue than the issue folks being shot left right and centre in Limerick.

That's only a tiny example.

Speak about priorities len and then see if you still feel so pissed on behalf of the tax payer.

I doubt len, that you earn enough to buy your own lentil soup.

by dazinski Sun Apr 29, 2007 15:59

Hey Great Protest Guys

I recall all your anti bin tax protests - they really worked - we all have free bins now.

keep up the good work!

by Doyler Sun Apr 29, 2007 16:02

Disgraceful scenes, due process has been adhered to, I'm all for peacful protest, but denying someone their right to earn a livin i.e Blocking their entrance to work is not on.

Don't like democracy lads?

by CL Sun Apr 29, 2007 18:12

Sean ryan wrote
"Shell and the successful theft of our resources is more important an issue than the issue of a little old lady in fear of her life when she sees someone downstarirs at night trying to break in."
I ask Sean ryan "if that little old lady was your mother, ant that someone who was breaking into her house got in, and raped her before murdering her, would you still thing "shells theft was more important?.
you have one warped sense of what is important!

by Literate Reader Sun Apr 29, 2007 18:34

To Cl: Sean was not talking his relative priorities, he is saying that it is the state's relative prioritisation - they are happy to deploy large numbers of police to protect shell's profits rather than to protect citizens' lives. It is indeed a callous use of resources, but it is believable - you just have to read the papers to see it!

by CL Sun Apr 29, 2007 22:28

I I misinterpreted what Sean was alluding to in his post.
I understand peoples (including myself) concerns at this use of Gardai resources, it is indeed unfortunate that there is such a waste of valuable Gardai resources in Erris.
But the protesters have to admit that it is their behavior that necessitates the need for such a Gardai presence .
Let me ask one simple question......If the Gardai wasn't there to uphold the rights of the workers, would the refinery ever be built?
The simple answer to that is NO, if there was no Gardai the protesters would have stopped work last October and Iggy Madden would not have a sod of peat removed from the site.
So it rings a little hollow to hear S2S or Cowley whining about five million Euros wasted policing themselves.
I am looking forward to the day Dr Cowley knocks on my door asking for my vote, I will make it very clear to him why he wont be getting my vote this time.

by Seán Ryan Mon Apr 30, 2007 04:17

For the want of a shoe the horse was lost. For the want of a horse the rider was lost. For the want of a rider the leader was lost. For the want of a leader the battle was lost...

Jumping into the middle of a sequence of events and defining a cause and an effect as being absolute is misleading.

The Gardaí are not there solely because of the protesters. They are there because of the need for the protesters. The protesters exist because our government gave away something that they'd no right to give away. The Gardaí are there to enforce the crime committed by both our Government and Shell. This perversion of the Gardaí is both morally and logically indefensible

Likewise, the argument about the workers that the protesters focus on. Everyone has a right to work, just like everyone has a right to an opinion. However the right to work is tempered by morality. A thief for example, has no right to work. Neither does somebody have the right to enable or facilitate a thief by their work. Honest work - good. Dishonest work, regardless as to the noble intent in seeking work - bad.

This is why S2S folks have a right to criticise the re-deployment of these much needed resources (the Gardaí and indeed workers) - this re-deployment is firstly adding insult to injury (the initial theft) and secondly, these resources are desperately needed elsewhere. There's no hypocrissy in this belief. The hypocrissy is exuded by our government, their alleged opposition (for the most part) and Shell.

This battle will not be lost. And it will not be lost for want of heart or truth.

by CL Mon Apr 30, 2007 08:10

A thief's "work" is illegal, the workforce at bellinaboy are working "legally" in order to live/feed their families.

And you weak excuse "The protesters exist because our government gave away something that they'd no right to give away."

I refer you to what JFK said about the rule of law................
" for one man to defy a law or court order he does not like, is to invite others to defy those which they do not like, leading to a breakdown of all justice and all order. He knows, too, that every fellowman is entitled to be regarded with decency and treated with dignity. Any educated citizen who seeks to subvert the law, to suppress freedom, or to subject other human beings to acts that are less than human, degrades his heritage, ignores his learning, and betrays his obligation.".

I don't want replies saying "but this is different" .... the law is the law!

Then you proceed to distinguish between "good" and "bad" workers. if the workers at bellinaboy are accomplices in a theft, then they are indeed breaking the law, and as such should be charged and Prosecuted by the gaurdians of our laws, the gardai and the courts. Not by vigilanties.
Just for the purpose of clarity can you point me to the law on our statute book,(terms of gas deals) which you are referring to, when you say the workers "facilitate a thief by their work"?

If the protestors know the government are responsible for a criminal giveaway of your natural resources, then I am sure the people of Ireland know it also.
so why not let democracy punish them? if what you say is remotely true, then both FF/FG and labor will be decimated in the upcoming election.
And Dr Cowley and Gerry Murray will win landslide victories in mayo, so why bother protesting, the anti shell politicians will hold the balance of power and shell will be thrown out of Ireland for good.

Problem solved,

Yes I am being sarcastic, but only to highlight the flawed logic you are using in an attempt to shift blame from yourselves over this criminal waste of Gardai resources.

by local Mon Apr 30, 2007 08:58

"the law is the law"

The Penal Laws were just then?

The Pass Laws in South Africa? The Nuremberg Laws which prohibited certain people from owning businesses and restricted property rights? The laws which existed in the country where John F Kennedy grew up which said that certain people had to sit at the back of the bus?

You would never break a properly drafted law no matter how morally repugnant or politically corrupt it was? You'll stand over a deal made by Ray Burke, no matter that he may have been being bribed to sign it?

This abdication from your own responsibility is sad.

by CK Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:32

The right to work is not an absolute.
When such work overrides the welfare of others then it becomes wrong to carry out such work.
The workers at the gas terminal are wrong in what they are doing.
Their work cannot now be justified by any worhwhile moral standard since
by doing so they trample on the rights and welfare of their neighbours.
I defy any of the site workers, the drivers, or the security to say that they do so
in the name of Christ, Allah or Whoever.
They are doing this for money- that's the extent of it.
Wil they tell their children and grandchildren that they knowingly helped Big Business to
trample on the little guy?
I hope the money is worth the enduring Shame.

by dazinski Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:37

The bloickade was lost. Your written support is all very well Sean but if you had found time to turn up at the protest then S2S might have been more successful at keeping the Shell employees out. If you cutback on the early hours online activity then you might be able to get up in the morning.

by CL Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:50

what has "Christ, Allah or Whoever." to do with morality?

and locals assertion.
"You would never break a properly drafted law no matter how morally repugnant or politically corrupt it was?"

As I have stated before,If a law is (in your opinion) "morally repugnant or politically corrupt" then as a citizen of a democracy you are perfectly entitled to petition to have that law repealed or amended.
But not by taking matters into your own hands, and attempting to "mob rule".
The vast majority of our fine democracy may well think that the 25% tax take on this find is a lot of money, that can fund many useful projects for our people and our country.
Who are "you" to force your views onto that majority, just because you and a minority has a problem with the project?.
If a thousand pedophiles decided, that in their opinion the law prohibiting them from abusing our children was "morally repugnant or politically corrupt" would you support them in breaking that law?
Please don't respond with the same old "but that is different".
It might be different , but the same logic could be applied, they could argue that in many countries in the world it is perfectly legal to have sex (even marry) with a child.
In those countries it is not thought to be "morally repugnant".
Now I suggest before you start dictating to the rest of us how we should think about a given subject, you have a good long think on what you really want.
One piece of advice "be careful what you wish for,it might come true!"

by Dr Nick Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:58

"Good protest. Good banner but for the wrong place. Outside the Dail or Government buildings - for the people who have given the gas away. Missed posters telling Shell and the public the why of the protest . Shell to Sea protests need posters with the appropriate messages. The protest is to make aware. Scuffles with Gardai not very newsworthy - if there is a protest a few scuffles is in the offing. Not a bg deal for convinced activists but that the right people get the right message, Very impressed with the number who turned out - but please the message! "

I hope shell to sea listen to this. As above poster said good message,wrong place.. Focus on your plight with Shell with Placards with the appropraite message to inform passers by of whats really going on instead of foccussing on the gardia. Gardai scuffles are expected now but this picture report tells us nothing of why Shell must be stopped.

by mob Mon Apr 30, 2007 14:16

"As I have stated before,If a law is (in your opinion) "morally repugnant or politically corrupt" then as a citizen of a democracy you are perfectly entitled to petition to have that law repealed or amended.
But not by taking matters into your own hands, and attempting to "mob rule""

Ah, mob rule, the favourite phrase of anti-democrats everywhere.

Some examples of "mob rule" from history:

Civil rights movements
Anti-Imperialist struggles, e.g. India
"Color" revolutions which overthrew ex-Soviet backed governments
Suffrage movements
Tienamen Square
1913 Lockout
etc. etc.

The only times in history that steps were made towards the democracy of which you speak, it happened through "mob rule"

But you believe all of the above should have just written letters and petitioned the governments of the time....? Get a brain.

Your point about paedophiles is senseless babble. If you're going to resort to that, then I'll start with the Nazi Germany comparisons, and the whole discussion will be down the drain.

Make some valid, logical, relevant points or else stop wasting our time.

by SX Mon Apr 30, 2007 14:23

CL is living in the land of textbooks and theories.
Real democracies operate a little differently -
Let me give an example:
In the 90's we had a referendum on divorce - the subject is irrelevant.
The government and media of the day carried out a few illegal actions for which they have never been held accountable and in the process learned just how far they can push the democratic process.
1. The govt. illegally stole over 500,000 punts from the taxpayers to fund a one-sided information campaign, in the process infringing the constitutional rights of every Irish citizen.
2. The comptroller and auditor general is under a legal obligation to recover that money - something he fails to do.
3. The govt, hired a PR company which had the stated intention of lying to the electorate (being liberal with the truth)
4. RTE operated a policy of bias and imbalance (proven in court)
5. The rest of the media was blatantly one-sided.

Nobody was ever held accountable for these 'democratic actions'.
Those politicians who now pay lip-service to the rule of law have no problem breaking such law or supporting those who do when it is to their own benefit.
There are numerous examples of govt. breaking the law to suit themselves.
Just look at all the posters erected in advance of the election being announced. Each poster should attract a 50 euro fine. Each poster is a breach of the law.
As long as govt.and politicians shows such disrespect for the law then it is hard to blame the ordinary punter for being somewhat sceptical at calls like those from CL to obey The Law at all costs.

by CL Mon Apr 30, 2007 15:20

"Each poster should attract a 50 euro fine."? point to law, "remembering poster dimensions"

"Nobody was ever held accountable for these 'democratic actions'." ...well as a democracy you now have a chance to hold them accountable "general election may 24th"

"Your point about pedophiles is senseless babble. If you're going to resort to that, then I'll start with the Nazi Germany comparisons." .......go on amuse me!

I may be mistaken but it looks to me like both SX and mob are suggesting "anarchy" or at the very least that people with their mentality should be allowed to rewrite our constitution!

NO THANK YOU!

by mob Mon Apr 30, 2007 15:40

An anarchist suggesting anarchy?! NEVER!!

How exactly is an election a chance to hold people accountable? I thought you were all about the sacred law, which states that people be tried for crimes, not that they... um... don't get elected. More senseless, illogical ramblings....

by mark - WSM Mon Apr 30, 2007 15:59

you could do worse than check out

http://www.wsm.ie

and also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

theres lots there to diffuse your fear of people actually being active participants in a democracy, a democracy radically more inclusive and genuine than the limited choosing of technocrats were gonna here about over the next few week.

by Tony Blake Tue May 01, 2007 13:00

I have followed left wing protests for the last 20 years, and I think this sort of thing is a rare occurrence. I myself am not aware of another protest that has physically blocked ordinary office workers from going to work. It is a highly aggressive action to take.

(I remember as a student being involved in protests which tried to stop politicians from entering the dail, but we justified that on the grounds that they were politicians - in hindsight very dodgy reasoning but we were only students!)

I am particularly surprised that it is the WSM that carried out the blockade as I would have thought they would be more in favour of respect for the rights of individuals then the other groups.

At a tactical level I cannot see how alienating everybody who works in an office job is a good idea.

From a point of principal, you just cannot stop people from going about their lawful business, that's it. What you did must be unlawful, or illegal.

Even in a strike situation when there is a picket line, every employee has the option to cross the picket line or not.

I would be interested in how WSM members justify such an action. Is there not a point of principal here? If not, why not?

by office worker Tue May 01, 2007 15:47

Are you drunk?! I'd love if people blockaded MY office, whether or not I agreed with their cause. A free long weekend, and the boss can't complain!

What world are you living in where a one-off blockade of an office is a human rights issue? Wise up!

PS. Office occupations and blockades of businesses have been a common tactic for decades. Guess you haven't "followed left wing protests" very well....

by Pat Wicklow Wed May 02, 2007 22:05

Well done, and thank you for all your efforts!

by cork s2s - s2s Thu May 03, 2007 15:27

follow link below