Tara is Saved – Praise Gormley

by W. Finnerty. Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:04

Jim (Wed Jun 27, 2007 20:13) above,

I can fully understand the feelings of deep betrayal you describe.

A few years ago, I also discovered (the hard way) that the Green Party are well able to dump people like a ton of bricks for no good reason - as and when it suits them.

Consequently, I did not support them in the last election, and so was saved the disappointment you obviously now feel.

However, I believe there is a much bigger and deeper political and social problem which the Green Party are not playing any major role in (that I know of): but which they could easily end up getting a lot of the blame for, if we're not careful.

Unless this bigger and deeper problem is addressed in an effective way, I fail to see how the Green Party can help very much - in or out of Government.

As you may already know, views of the kind expressed in the quote below (by Nancy Levant, at The American Chronicle) are growing in number on the internet, and they seem to me to be reflective of the bigger and deeper problem I have in mind.

"Politicians are no longer politicians. They work for the world’s elite and represent no common man or country. They are highly paid brainwashers, visioning facilitators, deceivers, liars, and thieves. We are forced to pay their salaries. We are forced to fund all global governance initiatives, which literally stole the wealth, property, savings, and security of every commoner on the planet. The wealth that was amassed in the last 3 decades by these criminals truly is beyond comprehension – literally beyond the comprehension of common people. We live in unfathomable states of ignorance. We have been robbed blind, yet we still can’t acknowledge the theft of our money, livelihoods, children, potential, nation, and future." (Please see at http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.a...19256 for the full article.)

The only thing I can think of which might reverse the shocking kind of trend outlined above by Ms Levant, which represents only a small part of the overall problem of course, is a major change of attitude and direction in the Whitehouse - not in the Oireachtas (which is merely a "limb of Caesar").

Hence my support (as indicated in postings above) for Barack Obama in the 2008 Presidential Elections in the United States.

If we're going to be ruled by the United States of America, it seems to me we have a right (and a HUGE need perhaps?) to influence their 2008 Presidential Election results - which, assuming I'm correct in my assessment of things, shows just how extremely puny and weak our so-called "national sovereignty" is at the present time.

by Jim O'Sullivan Wed Jun 27, 2007 20:13

Sargeant and co did not just agree to vote for Bertie or support him in government in a piecemeal, issue by issue manner. In return for a few pieces of silver, they have agreed a Programme for Government, which is the FF/PD manifesto rewritten-nothing less. The Greens have agreed to support FF/PD to implement this programme which is completely at odds with everything they told the electorate they stood for.

Need I remind you Etain that we did try to make our presence felt, we went out and voted for the Greens in the hope that the sitting government would not be returned. We did our bit, we refused to give them the numbers to return to power. It was the Greens and a few ragbag independents that then stabbed the electorate in the back and thwarted our efforts. Writting letters will achieve nothing.

Take for example the co-location plan. This will profoundly change our society and will place inequity at the heart of how we deal with each other. Those with money will receive the best while those with little will have to wait. The two tier system will be copper fastened and it will be extremely difficult to untangle that should this government get 5 years to grow the for-profit sector. There is great unease in the community generally regarding this and this was underlined by a poll taken by the Irish Times (result published on 25/6), which showed that 68% of those asked said that co-location should not proceed. Harney and Ahearn have no intention of paying any attention to that because they have obviously given committments to their friends that the Health Sector will be opened up for exploitation by their speculator friends. And the Greens are now lying very close to those speculators in the same bed with FF/PD's.

So stop fooling yourself or trying to defend the indefensible Etain, you and every person that voted for the Greens has been had.

by W.Finnerty. Wed Jun 27, 2007 14:44

After reading the Wikipedia report on Barack Obama (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama ) earlier today, I did something I don't often do: which is to denote money to an election campaign.

While I was making my very modest on-line contribution, I noticed a section which allowed people making such donations to comment.

For anybody interested, my comment was as follows:

=========================

I have struggled for years (without success) to overcome personal difficulties relating to corruption and despotism.

Although I am not an American citizen and do not live in the United States, I nevertheless believe that the United States has a huge amount of power and influence in the world, which can be used for both good and bad purposes - depending it seems, to a very large extent, on who is "steering the ship" as it were.

My feeling is that the general worldwide situation regarding what I see as the "curse" of political, legal, and corporate corruption (and all the associated horrors which go with such things) might improve very considerably if Barack Obama was to become the next President of the United States of America.

It seems to me that genuine democracy - "government of the people, by the people, for the people" - and rampant corruption cannot possibly coexist, and I suspect Barack Obama understands that better than any of the other contestants for the 2008 United States Presidential Election.

I further believe that if genuine democracy could be expanded by Barack Obama, the "need" for terrorism and terrorist organisations might evaporate in a manner which is directly proportional to his success: particularly in those cases where social injustice of the kind associated with corruption and despotism are major factors.

Related web site: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.com

=========================

by not idealist Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:33

The Greens will not change FF. no-one can do that. FF work through
absorbtion , they do not have the ability to deal intelligently with
issues that the Greens do- so they 'employ' them.
Bertie is a cabinet -maker and this particular five year spectacular
allows for any of the minor cogs in the machine to be dispensed with, when they
have given the FF party what it needs. They are some operatives, The greens have
shown themselves to be cheap. Instead of forcing real political change and everyone who said that
they would not deal with FF they have turned on their grass-roots and allowed the process of
absorbtion. This allows for an almost unbroken quasi-facist FF rule since the foundation of the
State, a long relationship with Rome and an impenetrable corruption. Quite honestly the Greens
will not survive this episode (and if they do, it will be a party of middle class oiks from private schools
who believe that political change is about the usual stuff, men in politics and women in the home)
The greens openly promote traditional lifestyle choices and do not engage on issues of abortion,
reproductive rights or Gay lifestyles) it beggars belief that they got an urban vote in Dublin, given their
profile as very catholic and very male-dominated- indeed- almost identical to Young FG/FF.
There is no 'choice' in mainstream politics, that has been proven and we should just let it go and
organise community opposition to the State.

by Maureen Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:09

Now that it's in place, I too believe the new arrangement between the Greens and FF should be given a chance.

At the same time though, and while hoping with all my heart for the best, I'm preparing for the worst.

It seems to me that nobody should underestimate the awesome power of corruption, and the extremely tight grip it has of FF and so many of their supporters. Matters are not helped by fact that those concerned still seem to see nothing wrong with it.

Another five year orgy of corruption? - or might the Greens somehow coax them out of it?

by Etain - Green Party Tue Jun 26, 2007 14:30

Thanks for your comments, Yes I agree with you Jim, that the current situation is far from satisfactory but do you honestly believe that any other combination of government would be any better? Enda Kenny, please? give me a break! I too cringed when I saw that FF were in with us the last party I ever envisaged the Greens going into power with.

The reality is this, that we are now in with FF and we have to make the best of it, I am prepared to give at least a year of my time, with the Greens, just to see how things work out, but knocking the policies at this stage is ludicrous to the extreme.

by W. Finnerty. Tue Jun 26, 2007 09:36

With reference to the Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:21 posting above, an e-mail has been received from Barack Obama in connection with his campaign for the 2008 Presidential Election in the United States of America.

I find the contents of his e-mail very interesting for a number of reasons, and among other things it contains the following sentence:

"You might be fed up with corruption in Washington or frustrated by how petty and divisive our national politics has become."

In my case, it's not just Washington I'm fed up with - it's Dublin as well, and Strasburg, and Brussels, and several other places besides.

For anybody interested, a copy of Barack Obama's e-mail (sent yesterday) can be viewed at the following address: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...l.htm .

Maybe this is a man who can help us (in a major way) to get rid of the "government of the despots, by the despots, for the despots" curse?

by W. Finnerty. Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:21

An effort was made today to inform Barack Obama about the completely outrageous "PPP situation" in the Hill of Tara area.

As some will already know, Barack Obama is a well qualified and very experienced civil rights lawyer, in addition to being widely seen as a highly successful United States Senator.

He also has Irish ancestry (County Offaly), and there is a real chance he might even be the next president of the United States of America.

A copy of the e-mail used to try and make contact with Barack Obama today can be seen at the following address: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...l.htm

As can be seen at the above address, our newly appointed Cabinet Minister John Gormley TD (Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government) is first on the list in the "To:" section. (Barack Obama is first in the "CC:" section.)

An acknowledgement of receipt has been received from the www.BarackObama.com web site for the e-mail at the above address, and it can be viewed at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...l.htm .

Today's e-mail to John Gormley and Barack Obama also attempts (again) to show the close relationship between the Hill of Tara, Brehon Law, and King Ollamh Fodhla: which is really what makes the Hill of Tara so VERY special and so very important (as far as I know) - but which Irish historians, archaeologists, politicians, clergy, lawyers, bankers, and so on apparently do not wish to know ANYTHING whatsoever about.

"There's nought so strange as folk" - and small wonder perhaps that the archaeological integrity of the Hill of Tara is proving so extremely difficult to protect?

In certain respects, we appear to be our own worst enemies.

"Begrudgery" of some kind maybe - or is it something else?

by PG Sat Jun 23, 2007 16:56

The High Court has the power or "jurisdiction" to cancel any law or part of any law that is repugnant to the Constitution. This means that if you believe a law breaches the Constitution or your fundamental rights, you may bring "judicial review" proceedings in the High Court.

As just about EVERYBODY seems to think that parts of National Monuments (Amendment) Act 2004 are totally repugnant to the Constitution, and consequently all the big long drawn-out string of problems which appear to be never-ending (as could rightly be expected when the constitution is being so badly violated), why is it that none of the several groups trying to save heritage sites near Tara appear to be taking advantage of the opportunity to bring "judicial review" proceedings in the High Court?

I don't believe Minister John Gormley can be relied on to do this job - as surely he'd get beaten up by the hundreds of colleagues in the Oireachtas who produced this piece of repugnant legislation in the first place?

Then, in addition, he would have to face the wrath of President Mary McAleese (the "third arm" of the Oireachtas), who signed her name to the controversial Act it without having it checked by the Supreme Court first - which she could easily have done, and in fact has a well defined constitutional duty to actually do.

Last but not least, there's the invisible "heavy gang" behind President McAleese to consider: and that's where the biggest problem of all for Minister Gormley might lie?

I'd say Minister Gormley needs help with this one - and who better than one or more of the groups who are trying to protect the set of Tara heritage sites intact?

Any sign of "law student" these days? Perhaps he/she/it (or whatever) might have some valuable guidance to offer on this very delicate, not to mention highly-explosive issue?

Super Highway (non-tolled) to Judicial Review Proceedings = http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/government...sions

by W. Finnerty. Thu Jun 21, 2007 18:44

It seems to me that the one and only really useful thing that could be done (at this late stage), but is not being done (not yet at least), is for Minister Gormley to have the constitutionality of the "the insidious 2004 National Monuments (Amendment) Act" checked using the judicial review process: which (in theory) ANYBODY can initiate.

That being the case, is should be no trouble at all for a cabinet minister in John Gormley's position to initiate the process.

What's seems to be happening of course is that everybody is being blocked, hoodwinked, bullied and/or otherwise distracted from getting to the root of the whole red-rotten problem through the judicial review process.

Open the door of that particular judicial review "cupboard", and there's no telling what might come tumbling out on top of them all - so they avoid it like the plague.

Anyway, I had another try today. A copy of the e-mail used, which was addressed to the new Minister for Justice (Brian Lenihan TD) primarily, but copied to several other senior lawyers, politicians and bankers, can be seen at http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...l.htm

"They don't like it up em do they Mr Mannering?"

by Jim O'Sullivan Thu Jun 21, 2007 17:36

"I think we should give them (Greens) the benefit of the doubt"

The problem is Etain - Green Party , that your leaders did not only agree to go into government with FF/PD, they also agreed to a Programme of Government, which is merely a re-write of the FF manifesto. Read it, then tell us where is the Green fingerprint on any of it.
Gormley is fluting around with you guys. If he cannot change Roches vandalism, then he should walk, full stop. What is happening at present is play acting. The truth of the matter is that Gormley, Sargeant, Ryan and Boyle are now de facto members of the Fianna Fail party. By agreeing to the Programme for Government they effectively joined the party.They are helping to implement FF policy. The quicker that the grass roots realise the extent of the betrayal the better. They will be able to stop agonising, re-group and maybe start their own Green Party that will stay loyal to their core values.

Sorry for being so frank, but it is better to deal with things as they are and not as we would wish them to be.

by Etain - Green Party Thu Jun 21, 2007 15:21

I too lodged my objections about Tara, I received an e-mail from Cllr Mary White, who has assured me that John Gormley is looking into the situation.

I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt

by Kit O'Marcaigh Tue Jun 19, 2007 13:22

After an e-mail to Minister Gormely urgung him utilise the said Acts and save Tara the reponse I got was:

Thank you for your email concerning the M3 motorway and the site at
Lismullin, Co. Meath. I spent all day Friday, right up until 11pm,
Saturday morning and even parts of Sunday talking to archaeologists and
legal people. I phoned the Attorney General at his home on Saturday.
The official and independent legal advice confirms that my hands are
tied in this instance, despite what certain opposition parties are
claiming.

I am fully committed to preserving the archaeological heritage of the area. It is my intention to meet with members of the archaeological community next week, and with the Director of the National Museum, to hear their views in regard to any future archaeological finds.

Regards

Mr. John Gormley T.D.,
Minister for the Environment,
Heritage and Local Government

by Con Connor - Ireland's Druidschool Sun Jun 17, 2007 18:02 info at druidschool dot com

The original post in this thread shares an understanding of how twisted the whole world of politics may be, but I did not post it.

A part of my email to the new Minister, John Gormley - sent 15-6-07 is shown below -

"As the newly elected and responsible Minister YOU now have the power under the National Monuments Acts, Section 14A (4) (d), introduced in 2004, where according to Section 22 of the Interpretation Act, 2005, a Minister has the power to revoke or amend previous directions. This section reads: "A power conferred by an enactment to make a statutory instrument shall be read as including a power, exercisable in the like manner and subject to the like consent and conditions (if any), to repeal or amend a statutory instrument made under that power and (where required) to make another statutory instrument in place of the one so repealed." YOU have the power to reverse Mr Roche's order and YOU should do so immediately."

Minister Gormley has since replied to me and I have sent him a second email. Details of my first email are in the link below.
I only post under my own name and stand over my postings and comments. My name has no 's' attached to the end of it.

I wish to remind everyone that the Summer Sun Standing is on Thursday 21st of June 07. Barefoot dancing to the beat of the drum and the haunting notes from the whistle. From 8pm at the Rath of the Synods on top of Tara Hill. The Tara Pilgrimage is a celebration of our Gaelic Culture - all are welcome to this free and open public event. More info on this event and videos of the Tara Pilgrimage 2005 and 2006 at the link below.

by Wicklow Warrior Sun Jun 17, 2007 17:33

This then is another conspiracy theory by a master of disguise
Con Connors ??

by cheeba Sun Jun 17, 2007 15:09

Can someone explain to me exactly what the hell this piece means? Gormley has said he does not have the power to reverse this decision - does that not blow this theory out of the water. Am I missing something?

by Joeyjoejoe Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:24

I was thinking the same myself, maybe there was some sort of a deal done? All I'll say however is there had f*cking better be if the Greens want to come away with a shred of credibility!