PUBLIC MEETING: Greens betray environment; Planet Before Profit

by Dub Tue Jun 19, 2007 17:05

"Jolly Red Giant" should not be apologising for not using a particular language. The reality is that the vast majority of the Irish population speak English. Why should Irish be used unless you are in a Gaeltacht area or active among Irish speakers or a significant minority of Irish speakers. Language should be about communicating your ideas. Why should Irish, English, etc. have political loadings attached?

Joe Higgins is a native irish speaker and it is natural that he would use Irish when addressing questions to the Minister for the Gaeltacht. I'd imagine Joe Higgins got a lot of queries and "constituency work" from Gaeltacht areas as he was one of few native speaking TDs.

by Cian Tue Jun 19, 2007 16:45

I would think another reason is that, for instance, in limerick there is not too few fluent irish speakrs, let alone those who can only understand irish to warrant doing posters in irish. More pressing is doing things in polish etc.

I also personally think using irish for the sake of it in political material can smell of republicanism and nationalism. Thats just my opinion though, not the party's. Also, there is a the fact many young people (like myself) resent irish being compulsary.

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Tue Jun 19, 2007 16:21

Like most of the rest of the population, there are few fluent Irish speakers in the SP. Where possible and feasible we attempt to incorporate it into our activity. For example, election material printed in Irish was used in Dublin West in the recent election. Unfortunately, it is not the first thing that comes to mind when organising activities (our fault).

by g Tue Jun 19, 2007 16:02

Just as a point of information- why do you never use the Iirish language in your printed material? I seem to remeber Joe Higgins speaking Irish, but generally the SP seem to wish to steer clear of it completely.

Why is this?

by Cian - SP & SY Tue Jun 19, 2007 15:45

No swp in limerick too, so 'before profit' doesn't have that connotation. But it is still limited in its usefulness, as its not the strognest slogan, but good none-the-less.

by Cian - Limerick SY & SP Tue Jun 19, 2007 15:40

Theres alwys the most debate about things like titles and names etc... Always funny.

I must say, I prefer the second title. The reason it was chosen ahead of the other one (and before other options such as green capitalism - a contradiction in terms? etc) was that it was felt the first one was overly about the greens and the meeting is meant to be more about the general point that inorder to stop climate change we must stop capitalism and we wanted to use the stuff over the greens to give a new angle to this.

'Must come' was put in to emphasise that we are counterposing the planet coming before profit to the way it is now.

Interesting point by the ISNer. Previously Planet Not Profit was used. Better? Anyway, when your getting into that stuff its really all semantics. I don't think it would make much of a difference to what people took from ths slogan if it was Planet not profit instead of before.

Anyway, regardless of the title: Come to the meeting!

The new stuff now with the greens wanting to 'discuss' the option of nuclear power adds extra relevance.

by Biker Tue Jun 19, 2007 14:43

Jokes aside, I think the term "People before Profit" goes back a long way. I remember the Labour Party used it as their slogan in the 1987 general election and look where they are now. I agree with ISNer and say that profit is a form of theft.

by ISNer Tue Jun 19, 2007 14:35

but gis some time to think about it. :)

by pat c Tue Jun 19, 2007 14:32

How about: People Before Surplus Value?

Surlus Value won't go away after the establishment of Socialism, call it something else if you will, but it'll still be there. The Surplus Value created by an individual under Socialism would go to the people as a whole (hopefully)

by ISNer Tue Jun 19, 2007 13:56

I'm not keen on either subtitle - for the same reason I don't fancy the moniker 'People Before Profit'. 'Before' implies that profit is actually okay as long as it's relegated to second place. Should socialists be endorsing the notion of profits at all? My vote is against.

Btw, I'm guessing, but I reckon the subtitle was changed when somebody in HQ spotted the similarity with the SWP's 'People Before Profit' slogan. G'wan, you can tell us!

by johnny Mon Jun 18, 2007 21:38

rather than waiting around expectantly, as all left ideologues do, for the economy to collapse so they might get support.

ideologues never compromise, that's why the gulags and the death camps were established.....

they don't act out of reason, but out of knowledge, divinely given them, by their holy books, marx et all, their ideology.

at least that's how it seems to me,
but then, again, i could be wrong,

by pat c Mon Jun 18, 2007 17:47

I have to admit I preffered the first title!

Is Socialism possible on one Planet? A question we will all have to address if intelligent life is discovered elsewhere in the Universe. Lets build the First Intergalactic!

Good luck with the meeting.

by Limerick Socialist Youth & Party - Socialist Party Mon Jun 18, 2007 15:32 info at socialistparty dot net Limerick

Hi, the title above was one of the provisional titles, i put up the wrong file, the actual title is
"Greens Support F.F. & Capitalism-
PLANET MUST COME BEFORE PROFIT!"

ACTUAL POSTER (this is the correct title)

by Rev Malcolm Ex - church of Marx Mon Jun 18, 2007 13:49

Beverley Coopeer Flynn, known as Pamela Ewing, by Sunday Tribune. to be bought back to the lions den. her father is facing the tribunal. this is the man who dismissed the political reality of people who experience living in poverty. telling us that we had to tighten our belts. Finian Mc Grath independent TD support. along with Trevor Sargent who opposed the Greens going into government, resigns from the leader-ship. will then become junior minister is breath taking which I don't understand we are now told that the editor of the Irish times, who is ex pd that certain people want her head on the block. because of the stand which she took in the elections, which was anti gov. remember this same person sacked Harry Browne from the paper. because of his anti war political articles

ps tell Pamela to hand back cheques. that the days of moving chequesfrom bank to bank for tax evaders is over.

by elisa Sun Jun 17, 2007 21:52

'Limerick will be permanently flooded in 50 years'

Im sure some people see this as a good thing :) .
Stand on Saturday in Limerick?