Zionism : The rotten beam in the blind eye of a pitiless world?

by TD - IPSC Sun Sep 02, 2007 17:17

More!

by Raymond Deane Sun Sep 02, 2007 19:45

Good on ye Galway! It must be made clear to everybody - in the face of all the slander and hypocrisy this evokes - that Zionism is a vile, racist ideology up there with fascism and Ku-Klux-Klanism.

by Michael Martin Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:42

While some people in Ireland demonstrate against the availability of Israeli-made goods in our stores, school kids in Sderot, Israel, on their first day in school are experiencing this (click on link below and then play video)!
Kindly think of your own children, your little niece or nephew, before participating in the next anti-Israeli demonstration.

by Nodin Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:31

Yet should a child die from an attack in the Israel/OT area, 9 times out of 10 (almost literally) its an Arab child that dies. You don't seem too pushed about them, Michael a chara. And don't please come back with the usual "they hid behind civillians" nonsense. Unless the average Arab 'militant' is 3 foot tall, I'd imagine they would find better cover in places other than a school or playground....

by Cael Wed Sep 05, 2007 02:41

The big difference, Lobeydozer, is that in Nazi Germany the Jews were in the position that the Palastinians are now. I have very little doubt that the kind of people who are backing up Isreal now are exactly the type of people who backed up Hitler's regime, and would have continued to do so if he had not turned on them. Equally, the type of people who are supporting this boycott are the type of people who opposed Hitler before it was fashionable to do so.

by long live israel Wed Sep 05, 2007 08:12 mebosa.ritchie at hotmail dot co dot uk

why not boycott all israeli products including

computers 90%of INTEL chips are made in israel

drugs life saving drugs against cancer and multiple sclerosis are develpoed and made in israel

mobile phone every mobile phone has a chip in it developed and made in israel

and many more

now lets boycott what the arabs give us

suicide bombers

darfur genocide

hanging homosexuals

persecution of christians

no room for more

by Nodin Wed Sep 05, 2007 09:43

"computers 90%of INTEL chips are made in israel"

The largest manafacturer is in the US. The largest outside the US is in Ireland.

As of yet no Arab has presented me with either a suicide bomber, or a hanging homosexual, so I might suggest that your experience may be an isolated one.

by ribbid Wed Sep 05, 2007 09:50

You run at it too quickly. Take it apart point by point.
:-
suicide bombers weren't given to us by the arabs - they are an oriental invention. During the opium war commanders of chinese sites blew themselves up rather than surrender to the British, by the 20th century the sino-concept of honour combined with the code of conduct of the samurai had led to the development of the kamikazi. That word entered the english language and until very recently all suicide bomb attempts were described using it.
darfur genocide considering the nature of the word and crime genocide, and considering the shared religious belief of all parties - describing the darfur genocide as muslim and not admitting the best efforts to end the genocide have been muslim is prejudiced.
hanging homosexuals here we see confusion between the acts of some states which apply sharia law and that of all muslim majority states to homosexuality and classification of same as criminal and the penalties deriving from prosecution of such. Again we see that the vast majority of muslim states or nations do not hang homsexuals and have been quite bemused to see the delights and furtive comradely wanking & cuddling of the turkish or sauna type baths be adopted by western homosexual cultures as de rigour. (hope you appreciated that french pun. or maybe it went over your head)
persecution of christians - well now, the best bunch at persecuting christians really are other christians. One need only ponder a moment words like "reformation" and "heresy" to see that through history right down to today's culture where more often than not you slam the door in a mormon's face - that christians persecute other christians. The Quran is quite specific on enjoining those of Islam to be nice to christians and offer them cups of sugar and stuff, but never walk their dogs. Flithy things are dogs.

the last commentator missed boycotting oil and 1234567890 (numbers). after all they are 2 things muslims gave us.

by Frank Adam - private citizen Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:21 Prestwich, Gtr Manchester, UK

First the Arabs refer to the cypher as "Indian numerals" which explains why they are different "Baghdadi" Eastern "font" in the Arab World, from the Western Cordova "font" - though of course the fact the Arabs brought the greatest Hindu contribution West, is evidence that empires and their extended free trade zones are not all bad as the Romans, Spanish, British, and the Arabs proved stamping language and progress across: Europe, the Americas and "from the Ocean to the Gulf" as the Arab League PR puts it.

Second given many of your readers sympathise with the Philistine politcal incompetents in the name of small countries in rebellion against empires -- just consider for a moment that little Israel fights to be independent of the Arab World which as Bin Laden, Iran, Syrian Greater Syria disruptive policies, and Saudi sponsorship of extremism proves, is still as imperialist as ever.

Third in a couple of months we celebrate the Diamond Anniversary of the UN "Partition Resolution " 181 of 1947. Now if the Arabs had cut their losses by accepting that, there would have been a Philistine state now for sixty years - without refugee problems into the bargain - and only an even tinier Israel. I dare you to look up your own files for 1947 - '48 to check over what the Arab ineptness and violence was at the time!

Finally your black friends in the demo would hardly survive long in any Arab country where the degrees of prejudices is still as Jim Crow as ever in reality. Look up the life of Frantz Fanon and his fashionable book contemporary to Algerian independence, "The Wretched of the Earth." He actually went to live in Algeria ; found it a lot rougher than France, and died a disappointed man. FDA

by apalled Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:40

Frank Adams in his post is full of hatred and rascism.

he states
"Second given many of your readers sympathise with the Philistine politcal incompetents in the name of small countries in rebellion against empires -- just consider for a moment that little Israel fights to be independent of the Arab World which as Bin Laden, Iran, Syrian Greater Syria disruptive policies, and Saudi sponsorship of extremism proves, is still as imperialist as ever."

(1) Philistine political incompetents - who are the Philistines? My recollection is that they are a tribe referred to in the bible, this is a rascist reference. Frank may wish to acknowledge that these so called imcompetents he mentioned namely Fatah are actively and continuallt supported by the USA and Israel itself. Israel is not fighting to be free of anything.

he also states
"Third in a couple of months we celebrate the Diamond Anniversary of the UN "Partition Resolution " 181 of 1947. Now if the Arabs had cut their losses by accepting that, there would have been a Philistine state now for sixty years - without refugee problems into the bargain - and only an even tinier Israel. I dare you to look up your own files for 1947 - '48 to check over what the Arab ineptness and violence was at the time! "

Again there is the rascist term used but again his hatred of Arabs blinds his logic, what country or people would accept the participation of it's land to invaders and furthermore he blames the Arabs for the refugee crisis where is the mention of Deir Yassin, Lifta and the hundreds of other villages attacked by Israeli forces where inhabitants were killed or kicked out all documented by the Un and Red Cross. Former Irish President Ersking Childers has also documented the archives of the times and has shown how Arab countries actually told people to remain in their homes and not to leave.

Finally he states
"Finally your black friends in the demo would hardly survive long in any Arab country where the degrees of prejudices is still as Jim Crow as ever in reality. Look up the life of Frantz Fanon and his fashionable book contemporary to Algerian independence, "The Wretched of the Earth." He actually went to live in Algeria ; found it a lot rougher than France, and died a disappointed man. FDA"

The rascist tone is disgusting but again he is obviosuly ignorant to the fact that there is a vibrant African Palestinian community in jerusalem who suffer enourmous rascism from the Israelis or indeed of the documentated rascism suffered by the Ethiopian Jews within Israeli society where support agencies regulalry complain of the rasicsm of the White Askenazi Israeli establishment.

Frank Adams if you are a rascist and anti-islamic then just ay so dont write tripe dressed up as criticism of Palestinian supporters.

by Nodin Wed Sep 05, 2007 14:00

Well Frank, its a strange fight for independence that requires building settlements outside your own borders, on land taken from its owners.....

by long live israel Wed Sep 05, 2007 20:31

to noddin and ribban or whatever
to want the end of the jewish homeland i.e israel is anti-semitic.your views are as anti-semitic i.e a hatred of jews as all the ant-semites.
every religion/race is entitled to a homeland apart from the jews according to you.
the palestians/arabs as they were all arabs until yasser arafat's fancy bit of spin "created" the palestinians were given there own state in 1917. they refused

they fought for israel in 1948---and lost

they fought for israel in 1967---and lost

they fought for israel in 1973---and lost

they were offered land in 2000---and refused it

the arabs are losers all over the place and israel is to blame

egypt threw out palestinians in 1970---israel was to blame

jordan killed 30,000 palestinians in 1970---israel was to blame

lebanon killed 80,000 palestinians in the 1975-1991 civil war----israel was to blame

iraq-iran war 2,000,000 muslims killed----israel to blame

darfur--300,000 muslims killed by muslims

shiite v sunni 200,000 dead in iraq----israel to blame

hamas killing fatah in gaza and vice versa 2007----israel to blame

israel should be supported as a bulwark against the death culture of islamic fundamentalism which seeks to dominate the world

we won't be safe in ireland if islamism wins

by Nodin Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:04

I wonder if the final exam in the Israel Apologists course is "Create a Potted History of the Middle East, with emphasis on how Arabs are to blame for everything- (points will be awarded for catering to stereotypes and not presenting facts). "..............

So far nobody in this entire post has referred to Israel as "the Jewish state" or to Jews or Judaism, save those who are supposedly defending its position. No one has called for the destruction of the state of Israel. Not unsuprisingly no member of the IDF Fighting Keyboarders 101st division have cared to tackle the issue of the settlements and Israeli policy within the OT.

by Frank Adam - private citizen Thu Sep 06, 2007 16:36 Prestwich, Gr Manchester

"Appalled" is indeed appalling for apart from elaborate foll de rolls to call me "racist" he, or she, has not answered any points. Look up Frantz Fanon. He was sooooo... fashionable across The Left in the sixties.

As for the settlement question which annoys most of the contributors - as if the 35 million Irish Americans living on Redskins' land without paying for it, needs no explaining, there are two "rails": in legal terms of papers and law books Israeli settlement across the non-frontier of the 1949 Armistice line, is no more illegal than Israel's settlement of the lands between the 181 proposals of 1947 and the "Green Line" of 1949 which nobody questions. Just because Arab broadcasters are champion Goebbels saying something is against international law, does not make it so.

In political terms ie practical actions with a view to a revised partition boundary to settle the dispute, I would be the first to admit that the discreet policy of the Labour government before 1977 which kept to the edges of the Gaza, Hebron and Nablus Districts in the name of "security" was a far more sensible policy than that of those religious extremists who scatter themselves like pepper and without empathy towards their opponents as unleashed by Mr Begin - but unfortunately the Arabs - again - did not deal with (partitionist) Labour when it was in office. That would have saved thirty years of augmenting aggro.

Very interestingly nobody in the 70's was over bothered by the Israeli settlement of Greater Jerusalem and the edges of Samaria and Judea. That was the price of the Arab 1967 threat to wipe Israel off the map.

As for the casualty figures do note the Arabs killed 1800 Jews (1/3rd of the total Israeli War of Independence casualties) in the Arab attack on the 181 UN proposals between 29 Nov 47 and 15 May 48 ie before the open official attack by the Arab States' armies on nascent Israel; but why did the incompetents NOT establish a Palestine Arab government in 1948?

Finally my original point was that the Arabs of ex-British Western Palestine are and were political incompetents. I stand by that simply by comparing their Rumplestiltskin refusals, and self inflicted miseries, with what a rag tag of refugees from the Arab World, as much as Europe created in Israel.

There is no reason why the Palestine Arabs with a bit of political nous should not have accepted 181 "without prejudice" to amendments in the future.

If they had done so they would have had their Filistinii State up and recognised these sixty years. The "F" pronunciation is theirs and the area was renamed Palestine because Roman intelligence offficers seeking to wipe Israel and Judea off the map knew their bosses could not pronounce the Greek PH but that the Philistines were a Biblical Johnnies come lately - enemy of the House of Israel.

Incidentally the Arafat regime grappled with this by mounting exhibitions of "Canaanite" folk dancing and cuisine. The Debka does indeed go back to beyond the Romans who also were into line dancing. Funnily the cuisine exploded the pretensions of that Nasserite catspaw because it was served with tomatoes and pimentos which like the Mexican prickly pear alias Sabra, are all 16th century imports from the Americas.

So is the idea of the nation state. The Arabs consider themselves as one nation in several states as the Italians and Germans before unification and therefore do not really take any Arab state seriously - except to befuddle ignorant Westerners.

by Nodin Thu Sep 06, 2007 19:51

The UN and about 95% (literally) of the worlds nations regard those settlements as illegal "Frank" and yes, there was some concern about them in the 1970's. However as they massively increased after Oslo, they have obviously come more and more to the forefront. Again, I might ask that you explain what Israels building of civillian housing outside their borders is supposed to be for........

by JohnHM Thu Sep 06, 2007 23:04

Nodin -
Muslims demand the right to live anywhere and everywhere they want in the World be it the Middle East Mahgreb ,Asia , Europe ,Ireland , USA and UK for example --why cant Jews ?

If Jews have not the right to live anywhere they want [in your opinion and that of any one else be it the UN EU or every Tom ,Dick , Bertie or Seamus ] then you and they are making an exception and your anti Zionism is anti Semitism .

by Nodin Fri Sep 07, 2007 08:48

Aha, its our old friend the false premise. "Why can't they just live in x"

I can, as a citizen of the EU, move and live in other EU countries with a minimum of fuss. However, should I arrive there, eject the residents, demolish their houses, and subject them to a brutal form of martial law while I myself only face the usual law of my own state, thats rather a different ball game, isn't it?

I see you once again wish to talk of "Jews" rather than the actions of a state and its citizens and forces as well......Thats a very sectarian and narrow mindset you have, me oul flower.

by Lobeydoser Sun Sep 09, 2007 22:49

The clearest statement on the latest boycott antics:

“The ICTU vote to boycott Israeli goods is wind and piss and vainglorious hypocrisy”. Kevin Myers, Columnist, Irish Independent, Sept 7, 2007.

Says a lot about some bloggers too.

by me from down here, germany Mon Sep 10, 2007 15:16

well I dont know whats the situation about the middle-east-discussion up here in Ireland, but visiting an indymedia-page to find lots of "boycott israel"-stuff and to read about the same theme over and over again makes me believe something is going very wrong. Why do you ppl take the point of a conflict-party and not try to critisize capitalism, states and war in its principials, not in what the system is actually doing (for example how marx did). Here in Germanys left-wing-scene we've got this discussion now from the start of the 90's. I don't think an emancipative left should take part wether for clerical-feudal-neofascists like way to many palestine islamist extremists, nor for conservative israeli politics doing the hard line. Whats so fuckin revolutionary to try to establish a palestine state ? Whats so fuckin revolutionary about to solidarize with a state (israel or palestine) ? I know theres happening lots of shit down there, but tell me, which side is fighting against power ? against borders ? against religion ? against capitalism ? (oh, plz don't tell me your feckin imperialism-argument !) against sexism, antisemitism, racism, homophobia ? for an emanzipated, borderless, powerless society ? Thats the point.

Try to understand capitalism in how it's working, stop to fight in the "real" politics. A left can't be revolutionary when it just tries to improve reality system-immanent. Thats the big thing we down here learned after 1968 and the 30 following years. Don't play the fuckin game. Don't believe there are some fuckin dark ppl behind the scenes that try to controll you and to rule the people by injecting capitalism, exploiting the people or doing imperialism-stuff !!

Well I hope my very bad english-skills didn't blur what I just wanted to say.

by Nodin Mon Sep 10, 2007 18:50

Condemnation by Kevin Myers =small praise by faint damnation. A man that used whine about violence while praising the British Army and whose other targets include single mothers and immigrants is not really an authorative source. He - like the rest of us - is just another arsehole with an opinion, albeit a singularily obnoxious one. Personally I suspect that were support of the Palestinian cause to become "mainstream" tommorrow, Kevin would be agin it, as thats how he makes his bread and butter. Most english papers employ a non-pc "contrary" journalist and thats the role he has fallen into.

To our German visitor - Your english is better than many of ours. I am pleased that "fecking" has made it into your lexicon.