Should we really be celebrating haloween?

by Red Reid - Ward One Cooperative Association Thu Oct 18, 2007 03:25

I went as Jesus one halloween. Real horrorshow. Crown of thorns, bloodied robes it was like I walked off the set of The Passion of the Gibson. I won a prize! I think we need more bible characters on Halloween. Like Lot. Or Cain! Now there was a slayer, never mind Buffy.
Like Saul said in 1 Samuel 31 "Draw thy sword and thrust me through therewith, lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through and abuse me"
OWCH! Now THAT is scary.
Rod and Todd bless!

by Legal Eagle - The Order of Druids in Ireland Thu Oct 18, 2007 04:50

Halloween is not Samhain, it is not the Druidic Festival of ancient Ireland.
There is no similarity.
Halloween is not pagan either.
It is an old folk custom coming from medieval times, but not from ancient times.
Like Stephens' Day.
In fact Samhain seldom falls on 31st October as its date in determined bu solar/lunar positions in the sky.
According to the ancient Druidic calendat, November 6th would be a better mean date for Samhain for those who cannot calculate the exact date on our Roman calendar.
So those enjoying Halloween, and everybody should, are not participating in a pagan festival.
Get out and Enjoy Halloween, on the Hill of Tara where there is going to be a fantastic light show staged by Save Tara Campaigns with help from STS.
Halloween is neither Christian nor pagan, just Halloween, that's all.

by Paddy Pan Thu Oct 18, 2007 06:16

And Halloween is an Irish cultural alternative to the British Guy Fawkes Night. It's also safer because (unless cutehoor gangs smuggle in and sell bangers) it does not traditionally depend on fireworks. In some country areas still youthful elements play jokes by removing gates from their hinges or lifting the rear of a car and dropping it at an angle from the footpath, both operations done to simulate the antics of disturbed spirits during the night which moves the season from autumn to winter.

The festival of halloween was brougnt across the Atlantic to Canada and the USA by several generations of Irish and Scottish emigrants/political exiles. Trick or treat ('penny for the puca') and Halloween party games were spread among all the ethnic groups in North America. This represents an outstanding Celtic influence on American culture. No doubt Australia, South Africa and a few other places benefited from celtic influence in a similar way.

I agree with the last poster that Halloween is just good fun for young and old. The 'druidic' origins can be remembered for a laugh and children and adults can enjoy the playful innocence of childhood. Goodness knows, in this bland globalising contemporary world where television has take over so much of social life and popular culture we need to hold on to some folk customs. Actually the Irish have less traditional festivals than the continental Europeans or the Chinese for instance, although our traditional music scene with spontaneous craic in pubs and annual fleadh ceoil events compensates a bit for it. I pity poor England which has lost most of its folk culture. The result is yobbery and a clean break between the young and old generations.

by Charles B. Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:31

Being a devout Christian, perhaps it is inappropriate for you to celebrate Halloween Phillip, but for the rest of the not so devout, why not? We all celebrate fashion, football, bank holidays etc., which could all be interpreted by differnet people to be the work of the Devil.
And besides, I thought that it was more about a feast of 'All Saints' (not the girl group silly), or in rememberence of those already departed (god knows that everyone who is dead already isn't a saint eh)? As well as being a celebration of the harvest etc. It just seems like a good time of the year to let your hair down, and go spooky if that appeals to you.
Surely bobbing for apples and mummering i.e. playing a tune on the tin whistle or singing a song for a few bob or a fistful of sweeties (irish style halloween goings on) aren't classed as devil worship? Perhaps the removal of gates or the kicking of cabbages are a bit more devilish, but not exactly what one would expect from a devotee of the Antichrist, that would be more like sacrificing goats, sodomising other initiates and so on.
Anyway, why wouldn't godless slaves to the Man's economy celebrate every time they get a chance? OK if you are a devout Christian, don't bother if it doesn't suit you, but I don't see why people who aren't devout christians, but christians nevertheless shouldn't. It's only a bit of fun after all. It's not like the kids who go out are filled with bloodlust or anything is it?
And besdies many of the kids that I see floating around are dressed as princesses, fairies, pirates (jolly ones) and so on, so it ain't all evil.
I personally think that the real evil out there isn't in the kids dressed up for the event, but in the banks and corporations who suck the life force out of each and everyone of us in the name of profit, and the governments who don't give a who ha about the poor and destitute amoung our own society and further afield.
So in conclusion, I would say celebrate away, though try to keep it more irish and samhainy, and less american and trick or treaty.

by el dia de muerto Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:32

samhain no el dia de muerto ?

31/10/07-01/11/07= 'All Souls Day'

sugar skulls

and sugar skulls

by acacia Thu Oct 18, 2007 15:09

at least 2 comments in 1. but no duality.

the last comment reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons which has fallen foul of Youtube's new copyright regulations, so alas I can't refer you to the chapter & verse. Anyway - Ned is engaged in wholesome education of his sons with the modern tools of media that american prosperity, asian sweat & suburbanism have placed under his stewardship. He's decided to make a home video of one of the little bits of Genesis. The two Flander boys play the parts of Cain & Abel. One Flander's kid asks if Cain and Abel were there only two children of Adam & Eve and the ancestors of every living person - where did the babies come from? ....... did they beget them together or with their mother? ......"You're asking for a soaping boy - now hurry up & kill your brother!" is father Flander's retort.


___________________________________

I read with interest the idea put forward by the article writer that the fight of "good Christians" ought not be with occultists or those who hold different beliefs on Hallowe'en but "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" - & that's Ephesians is it?

miiiiiiiiaaaaaaow.

I know full well it is Ephesians, the very same text which tells bondsmen or slaves to obey their masters, and women to obey their menfolk. Whenever I see that little epistle, I know exactly who I am or we are addressing my/our responses. Just as the word for "Bondsman" or "slave" has altered for ever fresher generations of Christians to suit their time & world vision, the translation of kosmokrator and arche [to render the greek words to their closest engish transliteration] haven't moved much, they are left qualified by their adjectives alone. & at alas they've fueled more than one dualist reading or Christian befuddlement of the nature of evil or role of "Satan", whom after all they invented. That troublesome little letter is held by its champions (who in Irish terms are the OpusDei wing of the RC church & many Christian revivalists) to have been written by Paul whilst in prison in Rome. But the introduction of the "spiritual armour" plonked next to a vexing christological puzzle could just have easily been written in AD 170. Long after Paul had shuffled off the mortal coil. In other words - it could be a fake.
(But just as the writer of the text above seemed to link the puzzle of "one of their core texts" & the Old Testament book of Hebrews - either curiously enough - or indicative of a scripiturally cohesive understanding - or for that matter a good history of bible study classes - - - - so did I yesterday in a comment on the difficulty of mixing Human Rights & Religious faith in one session. I nodded to proverbs 8, the 8th psalm, & 56th book of the Quran in one sentance)

miiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaow.

We mostly agree it is the kosmokrator or principalities & evil government of humans who appear at fault. We don't need to believe in either a saviour or his enemy to do so. But beware the pitfall of thinking this life and world are under the dominion of Satan. Just about the time the real letter to the Ephesians got written, your predecessors were already splitting each others' heads over that heresy. As I've said so many times before - with philosophy the more you read the less you know & with religion the less you read the more you know.

@ least we all agree Paul did write the letter to the Corinithians from prison - though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. George Orwell used that verse to begin his work "Keep the Aspisidstra Flying!".

It's good to remember your dead & it's good to remember you will die & it's very good to educate your kids with fairy stories so they understand bogeymen without ever having to meet one.

Enjoy your Hallowe'en mister Christian & all who sail with you or sailed with you in the "castor & pollux" to that prison of Caesar's Rome.

by Druid observer Thu Oct 18, 2007 21:22

Samhain is a fire festival.

Samhain literally means Summer's end.
That was in the time of when they had 3 seasons Spring, Summer and Winter at Samhain the festivities started three days before and ceased three day's afterwards. It was also the time of when the cattle were selected & killed as food for the Winter.

At that time of the year darkness truly descended and because it is seen to be when the veil between the worlds is at it's thinnest that the Fillidh-Ollamh would descend to the world of the Ancestors to retrieve information that would assist them to survive the Winter.

Samhain is the oppositte of Bealtaine and best done on a Dark Moon.

by cityfolk Fri Oct 19, 2007 03:50

Why does the above christian not want to recognise harvest time, does he not want to mark this time, is it totally meaningless to him, is cereal just kellogs to him, theres a strange arrogant trend in christian circles to think that the world is the sole domain of man and not man a part of nature and the world (which extends to the denial of global warning) and thus not wanting to recognise the natural and agriculture cycles of life.

by Lollie Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22

"Halloween has strong roots in paganism and is closely connected with worship of the Enemy of this world, Satan..."

In response to that comment, I have two things to say. Firstly, Halloween isn't pagan, you're confusing it with Samhain which is a different festival, and as pagans follow a solar calendar, the two festivals are not even celebrated on the same date. Halloween isn't as ancient as you might think. It began in Medieval times as a corruption by some ignorant, fearful and overly superstitous Christians, of benevolent pagan customs associated with the LIGHT festival Samhain (Note: LIGHT, not DARK!)

Secondly, you seem to associate paganism with the 'worship' of Satan. You are mistaken because first of all, pagans do not WORSHIP anything. Worship is a practise relating to the God figure of Judaic, Christian and Islamic belief systems. Pagans may believe in many gods, or none, and certainly do not 'worship' any of them. They may choose to HONOUR their gods if they wish, which is another matter entirely.

And finally, Satan is a product of the Judaeo-Christian belief system. Not only do pagans not worship him, they don't even believe in him!!

by el dia de los Muertos Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54

I made a comment above which suggested that we do not forget our dead and avoided thesis
on the importance of cyclical festival- be it paganistic or christian, though most fairly astute
people would recognise the cyclical nature of the major Christian feasts and their proximity
(or co-option by the Churchs)to the pagan festivals.

Sure isn't the whole Christian mythos based in a harvest mythos of sacrifice and rebirth?
akin to the Greek and Sumerian texts on the issue of rebirth and the drama is re-enacted
through the actions of the priest in the church- I would have understood so anyway.
Indeed the movement of the priest in his re-enactment of the old harvest myths are
as old as the orthodoxy and yet it has become a moral and ethical system that does
reject death as a part of life. Halloween closely coincides with the all souls day of the
Christian Calendar and it is the day when the dead are remembered and highly important
in Irish Culture- if your religion makes you forget your culture than you have a problem because
it has castrated your source
:-)
and you lack a connection to you ancestory and to the importance of the land and sustainability.
you are denying your humanity and your place in minding and maintaining the land
for future generations.
=not all of us want the castration and violence of orthodoxy which has cut itself away from
simplicity and beauty.

The images are of the Day of the Dead celebrations in Mexico, where people understand
the importance of remembering and honouring the dead.

na dean dearmad ar na mairbh no el Dia de los Muertos. Samhain=all souls day!

Viva La Vida

el dia de los muertos

by Vic Gray - Astro353 Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:58

I did already write most of this on Sep 27, when 'Samhain' gatheringswere being advertised but it seems so revelant to this discussion I thought it worth reposting....

Beltaine, Lammas (or Lughnasa), Samhain and Imbolc are Solar festivals occurring half way between the Solstices and the Equinoxes. The early Christian Church attempting to deny its origins, changed the Winter solstice into Christmas day, the Spring Equinox into Easter and other festivals into various saints days on Sundays near to their true dates, such as St Brigid's day (Imbolc). This was only partially successful and S May Day (Beltaine),Halloween (Samhain), , Lughnasa and Midsummers day( Summer solstice) re-emerged outside the Christian calendar. Confusion however remained and only Midsummer is now celebrated on the right day. Even if you take an alternative viewpoint that the Quarter days were Lunar festivals then the dates usually celebrated still make no sense. Anyone who has studied the alignments of standing stones and stone circles in depth has calculated that they are aligned to these solar midpoints.

These quarter points have always been important astrologically as the energy gates of the zodiac. 15 ° Taurus and 15 ° Leo allowed fertility and creativity to flow 'up' from the earth and 15 ° Aquarius and 15 ° Scorpio allowed cosmic and spiritual energy to flow 'down' from above. The early Christian Church recognised they were such powerful symbols that they assigned Saints to the various gates and included in their decorated manuscripts the symbols of the Bull the Lion, the Eagle and the Angel alongside these saints.

Samhain 2007... 7th November
Imbolc 2008 ........Feb 3rd
Beltaine 2008 .....May 6th
Lammas 2008... 7th September
Samhain 2008... 7th November

Related Link: http://www.astro353.com