Labour Betrays Mv Rachel Corrie And Gaza Flotilla

by Cailin na Gaillimhe - Galway/Palestine Childrens Appeal Sat Jun 12, 2010 03:06

Diabolical! Having read all the comments above it infuriates me to hear excuses on behalf of those in Galway City Council who defeated this excellent motion!
I agree totally with Old Codger. There is no excuse for those amadans that defeated the motion! Last week, Israel hijacked, kidnapped, injured, murdered, tortured, robbed, and abused International human rights activists in International waters.What are we waiting for? President Obama ( he of the great change!) failed to condemn Israel ( as he did not have all the facts!) although US citizens were executed at close range! 30 bullets in 9 bodies!
What is wrong with this world of ours today that cannot stand by the truth? Is it greed??
Yasser Arafat spent his whole life in dialogue with the Zionists. Summit meetings galore and acquired what?? Nothing! Israel has stolen more than 90% of Palestinian land. So who is pushing who off the face of the earth?
Its beyond a joke! Ireland.is a broken country, I dont see any party with honesty and integrity that can govern now.
Its time to form a new one! The peoples party!

by parliamentary toad td Thu Jun 10, 2010 15:12

it is far from mythical to claim that the irish labour party are traitors why else would habitually you go into coalition with the most conservative right wing party in this country? Surely your party's craven support for the Lisbon 2 referendum replay proves that your party has betrayed the Irish people?

I am not in the slightest bit surprised that Irish Labour Party has contact with the imperialist supporting Israeli Labor Party! You forgot to mention that the Irish labor party had great contact with that toe rag war monger tony blair who has a lot of blood on has hands from his bloody wars in Yugoslavia and other places

by old codger - pensioner Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28

There is no excuse for not adopting the campaign to break relations with obvious racists and murderers.
you either aprove of wat the Israeilis are doing or you don;t. there is enough evidence on the crimes being commited everyday, palistinians are suffering at the hands of zionists that have no regard for what you or the world think. The world stood by while the Natzis murdered the Jews and now they stand by while the Zionists murder the palistinians and peacefull activists.
IT IS TIME FOR THE LABOUR PARTY TO TAKE THE ROUTE OF TRUTH AND HONESTY AND STOP PLAYING RIGHT WING POLITICS.

by old codger - pensioner Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28

There is no excuse for not adopting the campaign to break relations with obvious racists and murderers.
you either aprove of wat the Israeilis are doing or you don;t. there is enough evidence on the crimes being commited everyday, palistinians are suffering at the hands of zionists that have no regard for what you or the world think. The world stood by while the Natzis murdered the Jews and now they stand by while the Zionists murder the palistinians and peacefull activists.
IT IS TIME FOR THE LABOUR PARTY TO TAKE THE ROUTE OF TRUTH AND HONESTY AND STOP PLAYING RIGHT WING POLITICS.

by Marie C Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:09

Desmond O’Toole of the Labour Party says “It's a real shame that at a time when unity, solidarity and common effort is required from all to hold Israel to account for its criminality and contempt for human values, some people "on the Left" can't resist the urge to reprise the claim that the Labour Party are "traitors"..”

In my view it’s a real shame that at a time when unity, solidarity and common effort was required to hold Israel to account, two Labour Party councillors in Galway broke ranks and voted against the demands of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

By voting down the motion that Ireland sever diplomatic relations with Israel those Labour Party councillors totally undermined the unity and solidarity of those opposed to the Israeli regime.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 09, 2010 13:56

All things to all men is FF pink.When is Gilmore going to express our disgust with Martin's obsequious surrender of our sovreignty to a murderous junta of aid-hijacking thugs masquerading as offended party in ongoing genocide when they are the actual perpetrators?
Your apologetics are unsustainable.You cannot 'dialogue' with contempt.Your 'solidarity' is with a dangerous outlaw regime bent on expansionist land-grabbing and murder of unarmed civilians.Collective punishment and mega-concentration camps contradict your illusions.If Israel were being 'held to account' Gilmore would be nailing Martin to the wall for deriliction.It,for once, is not so complex, even he cant grasp it.As for your sacred 'Left', jackboots fit both Right and Left. Such mealy mouthed justifications makes you a fit candidate for our New Green FF wingers.Keeping the coalition doors open, are we?At least Mick O'Leary still provides sick bags, your flight of fancy reeks of previous passengers.

by Desmond O'Toole - Labour Party/PES (Personal Capacity) Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:06

It's a real shame that at a time when unity, solidarity and common effort is required from all to hold Israel to account for its criminality and contempt for human values, some people "on the Left" can't resist the urge to reprise the claim that the Labour Party are "traitors" to some mythical ideological purity. I guess it's just an itch some people can't help but scratch.

For the record, the attached link will take readers to Labour's official policy on Israel/Palestine. This resolution constitutes the current, definitive statement of Labour Policy on this matter and was adopted unanimously by our national conference in April of this year. Link at: http://www.labour.ie/conference2010/motions/detail/1270...4341/

Labour Party policy leaves open the question of the status of Irish diplomatic relations with Israel. Most Labour Party people are conscious that final status negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, facilitated by the international community, are the key to resolving this conflict and the horrors of the current occupation. It is not in the interests of the search for a sustainable and just peace for Ireland to exclude itself from this process and hence we need to maintain a relationship with the Israeli government that allows us to express our views to, and hold directly acountable, those who act in Israel's name. This is also the reason why the Israeli Labor Party (and indeed Meretz Yachad) remains an 'observer party' of the Party of European Socialists (PES), of which the Irish Labour Party is a full member.

As to the different positions taken by Labour councillors in Sligo and Galway. As Labour Party policy leaves the question of diplomatic relations open, there is no question of any party member facing disciplinary or any other action on this matter. Indeed, what this shows is the capacity of a democratic party, such as Labour, to accommodate a variety of views on how best to serve the interest of peace, justice and prosperity in the Middle East.

by Maric C Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:02

I still have not been told what Michael D’s position is and what the Labour Party position is with regard to the severing of diplomatic relations with Israel.

Do they support the stance of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign or is Labour now in the process of performing yet another U-turn?

Can someone please clarify this matter.

by non-voter - S.B. U. Tue Jun 08, 2010 16:25

Donegal Jim is amazed that two Galway councillors voted the way they did, but I'm not sure if the vote would have gone differently in many other council chambers .Declan Bree and his supporters have done a lot of work on the Palestine issue on Sligo council over the years which put them in the position where they could pass a strong motion last week . But a lot of people do not yet fully see the dangers posed by zionism .

Speaking at a press conference in Dublin on Monday,Mairead Corrigan - one of the Rachel Corrie crew which was ,according to Fionn’s article , betrayed by the Galway vote - said that talks between Israelis and Palestinians could resolve and end the siege of Gaza, but “both sides needed international help.”
see :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10252249.stm

The fact that , after the deaths of the Turkish activists ,and after her own experience , Mairead Corrigan called for help for both sides in the dispute and urged the Irish government and the Obama administration to encourage “dialogue” (n.b fred ) suggests strongly that the Nobel peace prize winner would not be in favour of the breaking off of diplomatic relations with the racist regime at the present time . So let's be careful of using words like "betrayal".

John P Mooney’s question has been answered by JJ Sullivan above .
“ Councillors cannot be expelled from the Labour Party without a full inquiry into any allegations against them” . But , what is this stuff about expulsions all about ? There have been no reported proposals to expel the two dissident councilors as far as I am aware .

The original report – posted as a news item by Fionn - doesn’t even mention that there were two dissident Labour councilors on the night of the vote or that there was any sort of a Labour whip on the vote . Why are they "dissidents" ? There is not -again as far as I am aware - a clear Labour position which Clr Tom Costello and Clr Colette Connolly defied on the night of the vote . Fionn’s headline gives the impression that the whole of Labour are guilty of betraying the Rachel Corrie ,but I don't think we should be painting them into that corner .

I very much hope there isn’t any political point scoring going on here at the expense of the murdered peace activists . If there is then it certainly doesn’t in any way advance the call for the breaking of relations with the racist Zionist regime.

by genes Tue Jun 08, 2010 16:25

then why move to Israel? Was there something wrong with Sweden?

BTW: no one is making any claim that they were not Swedish by citizenship - nor is any one claiming that those people were not educated in Physics, Chemistry, Biology, to my knowledge.

And to be honest I'm not so convinced that Sweden suffered as much as you are claiming - Swedish industry seems to have done quite well for itself in the years after WW2

by Swedish Tue Jun 08, 2010 16:11

Jews who left Sweden for Israel left an intellectual hole behind them.

Physics, Chemistry, Biology suffered when they upped and left.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Jun 08, 2010 15:15

The trans-party consensus at the top is 'dont frighten the yankee dollar'.The powder keg of the people are waking to the strokes struck at their expense, but the manipulation goes on,and will for a while yet.They are praying for a nice natural disaster somewhere good and pitiful,to distract the dawning awareness that we live in a velvet gloved war-economy.The man-made BP disaster in the mexican Gulf doesn't really fit the bill.Too open to that nasty blame game that imputes reponsibility for consequences to actors.No doubt I left bits out.The swats should be in to correct me post haste.

by Donegal Jim Tue Jun 08, 2010 15:00

This reads like two threads. I’m interested in the contributions relating to the vote which took place at Galway City Council.

I could hardly believe my eyes when I read that Labour Councillors had voted against a motion that Ireland sever diplomatic relations with Israel.

Who do they represent? Everyone I speak to is outraged about the Israeli attack on the Freedom Flotilla. Is Galway City different? Can someone explain?

by genes Tue Jun 08, 2010 14:35

When a boatload of Swedish Jews arrived in Israel in 1949 they were mostly blonde and blue eyed.

which kind of supports the point about lack of of semitic-genes in the Ashkenazi population - I guess that might be the influence of the 'Slav' part of of the Khazars/Ashkenazi 'Slav/Turkic' genetic heritage

by John P. Mooney Tue Jun 08, 2010 14:00

My question has not been answered. Will Clr Tom Costello and Clr Colette Connolly now be expelled from the Labour Party because they supported Clr Catherine Connolly’s motion calling for the severing of diplomatic relations with Israel?

Will Michael D. support Labour HQ and councillors McNelis and Nolan or will he support the dissidents who voted for the breaking off of diplomatic relations?

by Isrealite. Tue Jun 08, 2010 13:59

"In fact it is widely accepted by many that the bulk of Palestinian population are in fact the mostly descendants of Biblical-era Jews who converted to Islam, whereas the genetic testing on modern-day Ashkenazi Jews has shown that they are in fact mostly descended from a Turkic people known as thje Khazars.."

The Jews have always mixed in with the locals.

The notion of racial purity is purile.

When a boatload of Swedish Jews arrived in Israel in 1949 they were mostly blonde and blue eyed.

Local jews commented that they looked like the SS.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Jun 08, 2010 13:16

Back at the topic.Labour betrays Mv Rachel Corrie..Gilmore was just on the one o'clock bulletin crying about perfidious Fianna Fail-out.
Not a whisper about Martin's inertia( I must be in diplomatic mode today)and collaboration.Lets keep it focussed if possible.Doen't that sort of 'clear it up',non-voter?

by old codger - pensioner Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:25

If you look at the video's on this site you will get some idea of what zionists are like and you might consider how anybody can come to an agreement with people of this mentality.
maxblumenthal.com
The incredible arrogance and hatred of these people is astonishing. They really do not care what the rest of the world think of their crimes. while America backs them they will continue to murder anyone who gets in their way.

by non-voter Mon Jun 07, 2010 20:46

The Labour Party position indeed needs to be cleared up .There are many opponents of zionism in the Labour Party who don't support Israel, but who do not yet see the need for breaking relations with it .( It must be said as well that there are many supporters and members of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael who don't at all like what Israel is doing either .) I think many people’s attitudes have begun to change since last weeks atrocities , but those of us who support breaking relations have to argue our case . I’m not sure if we have yet convinced the likes of Mairead Corrigan.

RTE News report :
Mairead Corrigan , speaking at a press conference in Dublin today, said , talks between Israelis and Palestinians could resolve and end the siege of Gaza, but both sides needed international help.
"We thank the Irish government and encourage them to play their role in trying to see that this situation in Israel and Palestine is moved into a peace process," she said.

by JJ Sullivan Mon Jun 07, 2010 19:39

Councillors cannot be expelled from the Labour Party without a full inquiry into any allegations against them.

In order to be expelled evidence would have to be provided to the Labour Party hierarchy that a councillor or councillors acted in contravention of party policy.

Will councillors Tom Costello and Colette Connolly be expelled or will it be councillors McNelis and Nolan.

What is the Labour Party policy on Israel and Palestine?

by anti-Zionist Mon Jun 07, 2010 16:41

Mr Novack For your information, neither the Palestinians or the Jews are a race. As Alfred Lilienthal, an anti-Zionist American Jew, wrote in What Price Israel?: "There is no reputable anthropologist who will not agree that Jewish racialism is as much poppycock as Ayran racialism."

Furthermore, most Jews living in Israel have no more claim to Palestine than you or me. As Schlomo Sand, an Israeli historian, shows in his recent book, When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?, even the early colonists knew this: "Most of the early Zionist leaders, including David Ben Gurion believed that the Palestinians were the descendants of the area's original Jews. They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam."

Most Jews, possibly up to 90 percent, are Ashkenazim, the descendents of Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century (you might want to actually READ Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe), so they might feel more at home in Georgia, another supposedly "besieged democracy," whose belligerent George Soros-sponsored government includes at least two Israeli citizens.

by Red Hair. Mon Jun 07, 2010 16:35

"As to the purely speculative charge that Koestler was motivated purely by political considerations."

Koestler was too brainy for that.

Koestler was one of the great intellects of the twentieth century.

He towered far above politics.

by Khazar=Ashkenazi Mon Jun 07, 2010 16:21

Simply putting 'TRIBE' in capital letters won't make it true - no matter how often one repeats it.

The Ashkenazi are a tribe who happen to be Jewish - they are not the totality of Judaism - If you had read what was posted you'd know that since it was quite clearly stated in the posting

For example the Felashim, the Jews of Ethiopia, share nothing but religious practices in common with the Khazar-descended Jews of Eastern Europe

Equally the Sephardim share little culturally with the Ashkenazim, for example the tradition of wearing sable hats, common amongst the religious Ashkenazim, is non-existant within Sephardic culture

The Ashkenazi Jews of Poland are neither Semitic nor related to the Jews of ancient Palestine.    

The Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of the Slavic/Turkic Khazars, who lived around the Caspian Sea (in, and to the west of what is today Khazakstan) and who converted to Judaisim in or around the 8th Century A.D.  

The extremely fraudulent claim by Polish and Russian Zionists that they are genetically-pure direct descendants of Biblical era Jews and have therefore some sort of 'right to Palestine', is truly "one of the great lies of modern times."

Ashkenazi Judaism is essentially a Slavic pagan and Christian culture and religion with later addition of Judaism

Ashkenazim, after fleeing West from Asia Min and the eastern Caucus region, ahead of Genghis Khan's Golden Horde, set up in and around Kiev (some settled in what is now modern day Bulgaria and Hungary) and after a time discovered the existence of a relatively small German Jewish population in lands to the West.

Yiddish began as a Slavic language whose vocabulary was largely replaced with German words. In order to disguise their Slavic and Khazar origins, since the Germans, who controlled much of the trade and therefore the wealth, looked down on Slavs as a less civilised people, they proceeded to attempt to Germanise their obviously Slavic language and so set about replacing much of their Slavic vocabulary with German words.

Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly converted Slavic and Turkic people who imported their holy men from other existing. mainly Sephardic. populations. Hence the Cohen genetic lineage since Cohens were a priestly caste and were expected to intermarry with other members of that caste,

The bulk of the Ashkenazim population descends from obviously Slavic and Turkic people, as genetic testing has shown. The genes don't lie

As to the purely speculative charge the Koestler was motivated purely by political considerations: well If he was it more than likely that he meticulously researched and wrote the book because he was sick of the lies and violent militarism of the more extreme of the Zionists, all of which they constantly justified using the false genetic arguments

by John P. Mooney Mon Jun 07, 2010 16:20

Can we expect that Clr Tom Costello and Clr Colette Connolly will now be expelled from the Labour Party because they supported Clr Catherine Connolly’s motion calling for the severing of diplomatic relations with Israel?

The question now is: Will Michael D stand by his comrades councillors McNelis and Nolan or will he support the dissidents who voted for the breaking off of diplomatic relations.

by Red Hair. Mon Jun 07, 2010 15:49

"The Jews are a TRIBE and their tribal rules for membership aren't "genetic".

I presume you miss-hit the Keyboard putting the g in genetic Mike Novack.

We are all tribes of the human race.

A race is what politicians decide what is a race.

Apart from broad sweeps such as black and white and yellow and brown there is surprisingly little difference genetically.

Pale Irish people become browner than the Algerian locals after just two weeks sunning themselves in Algeria.

by Galwegian Mon Jun 07, 2010 15:09

Not Surprised on Labour's position. Michael D. Higgins wants into the Áras and wants now to be a "respectable" politician. In fact the entire Labour Party are about to go into government and will play the game.

Anyway, don't be surprised. Labour are not really a left-wing party anymore. They are proud to have Israeli Labor Party as a sister party in Israel. The same part is in government there and hold much blame for the situation facing ordinary Israeli and Palestinian people.

by Mike Novack Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:54

The "book of invasions" for other parts of Europe.

In spite of the fact that Koestler was Hungarian and so certainly knew better he wrote this for political reasons. Of course actually irrelevant because the Jews are a TRIBE and their tribal rules for membership aren't "gegentic" (adoptees, and all converts are technically adopted to Jewish parents, are considered as legitimate children as born children).

a) That the Khazars "converted" just as unclear as to exactly who they were, how many of them there ever were, and how related to the general mass of Magyars (Hungarians). Perhaps just represented a military/ruling caste. Arpad, leader during the invasion of Europe was almost certainly Jewish but within 100 years the kings of Hungary were Magyars, not Khazars. What I am saying is that by the time the occupation of Hungary was complete very few Khazars left. We are talking about the period 900-1000 (by the end of which period the Magyars were Christian).

b) The Khazars, like the the modern Magyars spoke a non Indo-European language. The Askenazim speak Yiddish, a Germanic dialect derived from mideval High German. So the settlement of Eastern Europe by Jews presumably by Jews from the Rhineland communities which were largely destroyed/driven out in the late middle ages (around the time of the Crusades)

c) Hungary itself may be a different matter. The Jewish population there spoke according to class. Lower class might have spoken Yiddish but upper class Jews especially if derived from ancient families spoke Magyar and if they also spoke German it would be modern High German. In other words, some of the HUNGARIAN Ashkenazim might go back to the Khazars. This language difference probably means Jews in Hungary from separate sources, some (earlier) from Khazars and some (later) from Germanic speaking lands.

by Israelite. Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:05

The Palestinian word for peace is Salaam.
The Hebrew word for peace is Shalom.

The words,ironically, show the deep and ancient historical connections between the Jews and the Palestinians.

This Hebrew language song was a hit in Israel a few years ago.
It contains both words:

Od yavo' shalom aleinu......................... Peace will come upon us
Od yavo' shalom aleinu.......................... Peace will come upon us
Od yavo' shalom aleinu.......................... Peace will come upon us
Ve al kulam .............................................. And on everyone.

Salaam ,Salaam..................................... Salaam ('peace' in Arabic)
Aleinu ve al kol ha olam,.........................On us and on everyone

Salaam, Salaam......................................Salaam, Salaam

by Canaanite. Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:47

Thanks for the link to the Koestler book.
(His book "The Sleepwalkers" was one of the best books I have ever read.).

According to their own Bible the Jews only arrived in "The Land of Canaan" around 1400 bc.

Present-day Bible scholars, such as Shalom Carmy, suggest that in around 1400 BC, Jews first arrived in Canaan. Others, such as Israel Finkelstein, Jonathan Tubbs and others, dispute the veracity of the Biblical account and claim that the Hebrew culture developed locally, from the Canaanite culture, with perhaps very minor population inflows from the outside.

We can be sure of one thing:
Palistenians have lived in that area for a heck of a lot longer than Jews.

Interesting Wiki links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

.
.

by Marie C Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:13

Non-voter tells us that Michael D. Higgins is on record as saying “I would like to state the consistent position of the Labour Party on the blockade of Gaza. It is illegal. It is not only illegal but the efforts made to frustrate the breaking of the blockade in international waters are themselves illegal actions.”

Can anyone tell us what Michael D’s position is and what the Labour Party position is with regard to the severing of diplomatic relations with Israel.

Do they support the stance of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign or is Labour now in the process of performing yet another U-turn?

by non-voter Sun Jun 06, 2010 19:02 thackeraddy at gmail dot com

I can understand Fred's impatience . I have been trying to warn about the dangers posed by zionism for years, but find many –from across across the political spectrum - have succumbed to the racist ideology zionism has spawned - i.e Islamophobia . A lot of people who would be aghast at the thought of being called racist readily identify Islam as being an equal or worse threat than zionism , racism etc. The Zionist racist propaganda works .Israel regularly threatens Iran with their stockpile of nuclear weapons for instance : those who call for defence of Iran’s national sovereignty are branded as enemy’s of the “people” of Iran who are living under Islamic tyranny etc etc.. Pictures of whips, nooses and cranes are dragged out to ram the point home.

Somebody on this very site was trying to convince readers last week that , because Islam is a religion and not a race, Islamophobia can’t be considered racist. By the same standard many in the anti-jewish Nazi party would not be racist , of course . You can’t compare the Zionists with the Nazis people say (and there are differences) , but the lessons of the nineteen-thirties should be learnt nonetheless . People need to be woken up to the realities of the racist ,expansionist Zionist regime and the threat that it poses , not just to the middle-east , but to the whole world , including Ireland . I have no doubt that HB was right when he/she said on another indymedia Ireland thread that a high level of Islamophobic calculation went into the planned massacre by the Zionist racists last Monday ,but the murder of the Turkish peace activists was also a threat to the whole of the world-wide anti-war movement .

When , despite last week’s outrage , people on the left of politics still don’t want to acknowledge what zionism is –expansionist , nuclear-armed racism - it should come as no surprise that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael councilors in Galway voted the way they did.

by genetics Sun Jun 06, 2010 16:39

at least the ancestors of the Welsh had at least at one time lived in and around London

but your analogy would only work if the ancestors of the Ashkenazi had at one time lived in or around Jerusalem - they never did, though- they came from the Caucus region - not the middle east they are descendants of slavo-turkish people , NOT semitic - Yiddish is a language with a Slavic structure, with German words - they translated their words into German, to pass themselves off as having arrived from the West, but the structure of Yiddish remained slavic

a more fitting analogy would be if the Catholic Irish decided they were entitled to all of Rome because that is where Roman Catholicism originated

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Jun 06, 2010 16:30

Dont knock it.I'm Getting a post-Lisbon Petition to Brussells together to reclaim this island on behalf of my Fir Bolg clan.Ye can all apply to Mossad for yer exit papers.

by Anglo-Saxon. Sun Jun 06, 2010 16:23

The genetic argument is a bit silly all right.

Imagine the Welsh trying to reclaim London from the Germanic Anglo-Saxons?

Preposterous.
.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Jun 06, 2010 16:21

The only one in this country those diplomatic gentlemen might give any ear to is Shatter.I'd say his wavering is bothering them more than all cowen's mutterings and martin's thumb-twiddling.Also hillary clinton's discomfort will register.They have Obama chalked in as the black pussy cat in the corner.

by Fred Johnston Sun Jun 06, 2010 15:55

Somebody will have to tell me whether genetics has anything to do with two Galway Labour councillors going against this motion, no doubt believing, even as Israel executes at point-blank range nine members of the relief flotilla, that 'dialogue' is preferable to diplomatic action, a point of view that must create sniggers at the Israeli Embassy in Dublin.

by silly me Sun Jun 06, 2010 15:12

While I agree in general with your point, old codger, I feel that it must be pointed out that when one of the main arguments for Israel's stealing of Palestinian land is: 'It belonged to OUR ancestors before your ancestors lived on it' then unfortunately Genetics does become a relevant point in the debate.

I wish it were not so, but if one is to counter the Zionist propaganda one has to deal with that very contentious issue

by old codger - pensioner Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:18

The issue of genetic origins is irelivant. What matters is one group of human beings is murdering another group without regard to women or children, the horrific weapons used or the barbarity of the methods used.
Hitler claimed the jews were a substandard race of evil intent and the zionists seem to be trying to prove him right . Most people have the sense to know that there are good and bad people in every race, the problems arise when the bad people seize power and use it without regard to human rights or basic standards of humanity.
Israel is backed by America and the rest of the world is afraid to upset America, it is time for the good people to stand up for truth and honesty and defy the bad people no matter what the cosequences.

by non-voter Sat Jun 05, 2010 19:03

Sligo Labour councilors who voted for breaking off ties with Israel might feel entitled to complain at the headline, Fionn .
Leaving that aside though ,surely in a news report we should be told whether all of Galway’s Labour councilors( I know that there aren't many of them ) voted against Clr Connolly’s motion . And ,since the article specifically mentions Michael D in its introduction , it should for the record state Deputy Higgins’ own position on the pertinent issue . Does Michael D Higgins ,Labour’s foreign affairs spokesperson, support breaking off diplomatic ties with the racist Israeli state ?

Describing the two councilors as “two of Michael D’s Labour councilors” implies that Higgins would not have supported the emergency motion. Perhaps that is the case , but perhaps it’s just guilt by association with the two Galway councillors .

This is what Higgins said about the zionist blockade last week .
“ I would like to state the consistent position of the Labour Party on the blockade of Gaza. It is illegal. It is not only illegal but the efforts made to frustrate the breaking of the blockade in international waters are themselves illegal actions.” http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/127548602253451268.html

Higgins also called the incident "an international political outrage" last week ; but does he support the breaking-off of all diplomatic ties with the racist and criminal state ? Surely this important point needs clarification . Labour does need to come clean on its position , but articles based on guilt-by- association , implication and innuendo do little to convince ; they can actually allow politicians latitude to be equivocal on issues of such importance. Has anybody in Galway asked Higgins - put him on the spot? Wouldn't that be the way to go ?

Finally , the article's headline says that Labour betrayed the Rachel Corrie.

When the Free Gaza Movement itself doesn’t call for an ending of diplomatic ties on its websites we should be careful about using words like “betray” . What if one of the ship’s pacifist crew came out and said that he or she was personally opposed to breaking off diplomatic ties with Israel and thought that diplomacy was at the end of the day the only way that the dispute was going to be resolved ? It's possible!

With all due respect to the brave crew of the ship ,have there been any demands from any of them to break off diplomatic ties with Israel? I haven’t heard any such calls coming from Nobel peace prize winner Mairead Corrigan or from the former diplomat Dennis Halliday .

by Pete Rolfe Sat Jun 05, 2010 18:39 Cork

What is Michael D's position regarding the severing of diplomatic relations with the Israeli's? Has he performed a u-turn to keep the Blueshirts happy?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 05, 2010 18:36

And when Ferdinand and Isabella 'liberated' Iberia from the civilisation of the Moors a lot of the Jews converted(Conversos)to dodge the Inquisition and quite a few of them were involed from day one with the savage colonisation of Amerigoland.Good real estate prospects brings that out in us all apparently.Probably no more savage than your average Hidalgo.But,as the dentist said when he found the testicle adhering to the root of the molar,'deep rooted bastard,that one'.

by Zionism makes me want to vomit Sat Jun 05, 2010 16:43

THe full text of the book "The Thirteenth Tribe - The Khazar Empire and its Heritage"
By Arthur Koestler, is available on-line at - http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/

Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry. He was also a very talented and successful writer who published over 25 novels and essays. His most successful book, Darkness at Noon, was translated in thirty-three languages.
As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide...some have speculated that it was not a suicide but a revenge killing due to his refusal to disown any of the conclusions in the book

This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkic tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry...

The Khazars' sway extended from the Black sea to the Caspian, from the Caucasus to the Volga, and they were instrumental in stopping the Muslim onslaught against Byzantium, the eastern jaw of the gigantic pincer movement that in the West swept across northern Africa and into Spain.
Thereafter the Khazars found themselves in a precarious position between the two major world powers: the Eastern Roman Empire in Byzantium and the triumphant followers of Mohammed. As Arthur Koestler points out, the Khazars were the Third World of their day, and they chose a surprising method of resisting both the Western pressure to become Christian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism.

The second part of Mr. Koestler's book deals with the Khazar migration to Polish and Lithuanian territories, caused by the Mongol onslaught, and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced.
Mr. Koestler concludes: "The evidence presented in the previous chapters adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians - whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish - who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin. The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe. When that unprecedented mass settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it, while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers" ( page 179, page 180).

"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.

The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500,000.

The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew." ( page 181).

In Mr. Koestler's own words,

"The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."

Kharian Empire

by anti-Sematicism Sat Jun 05, 2010 16:21

The Palestinians are just as Semitic as the Jews.

actually genetic studies have shown that The Palestinians are even more Semitic than the vast majority Israeli Jews. - the Palestinians have a much closer genetic relationship with the Biblical Jews who would have lived in that area 2000 years ago, than do the majority of people who call themselves Jewish - in fact it is widely accepted by many that the bulk of Palestinian population are in fact the mostly descendants of Biblical-era Jews who converted to Islam, whereas the genetic testing on modern-day Ashkenazi Jews has shown that they are in fact mostly descended from a Turkic people known as thje Khazars, who lived in the Caucus region, near modern day Georgia, who converted to Judaism between 950 Ad and 1150 AD. They moved east-ward ahead of Genghis Khan who was rapidly expanding the area under Mongol control, and they eventually settled mostly in and around the Ukraine/Poland region of Eastern Europe, thuis accounting for the large Jewish population once found in that area

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 05, 2010 16:08

Diplomatic relations?I'm with anti-semanticism on this one.Israel showed its contempt for all diplomatic norms when it pissed on our passports.Your idea of diplomacy seems to be, well they haven't wiped their arses with it yet, lets be patient.
Meantime kids are dying for lack of clean,unpolluted water and medical facilities deliberately targeted in cast Lead,a blitzkreig they halted as Obama came into office,to give him time get embedded.I understand your reservations,but I think you are wrong.diplomacy without a foundation of mutual respect is a facade.A Turkish kid is as important to me as an Irish kid.I have Turkish,Moroccan,African friends.I have British and American family and I have kids that seem to like to travel.Schoolyard bullies dont study diplomacy,unless as a slyer way of screwing you.Martin has blown it and if we had anything other than quislings in this country,including most of the opposition,he would be gone since the passport stroke.That was the real provocation in this gig,and when Martin flagged it through he green-lighted this weeks criminality.its called realpolitik,diplomatspeak for butchery and plunder.

by On The Dole. Sat Jun 05, 2010 16:02

"Semitic" was a term invented in the 19th century by German Racists.

Everybody on, or from,the middle east or North Africa was "Semitic".

The Palestinians are just as Semitic as the Jews.

Ask the German composer Wagner.

You cannot accuse the Palestinians of being " anti- semitic."

by anti-semanticism Sat Jun 05, 2010 14:30

just exactly when would your 'cut-off point' occur?

this year alone the criminal Zionist regime has endangered the lives and well-being of Irish citizens by using forged Irish passports to carry out an assassination, and has endangered the lives and well-being of Irish citizens by murderously attacking a vessel they were on and also hijacked an Irish vessel - so when exactly would YOU say 'enough is enough - these people have no respect for other humans, nor any respect for the rights of others'?

you do not explain why you think 'would be rather foolish to cut off diplomatic ties with Israel.' - and i doubt any explanation you might offer would withstand scrutiny

by My View Sat Jun 05, 2010 14:10

It would be rather foolish to cut off diplomatic ties with Israel. Fionn is not thinking here. I think both Michael D and the Irish government have handled things very well. Diplomacy is the key here. You have a strong but reckless view fionn, the rest of us have something called prudence. Gifted politicans like Michael D and the Irish government have Irish interests at heart and their response to date has been positive.

by Brian Murphy Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:08

I'm nauseated at this; the bloody hypocrites. The Labour Party is now a bastion and defender of "lunatic" state Israel (Norman Finkelstein) and will not even help put the mad dog on a leash.?

So much for Netanyahu's poodles and lapdogs and Michael D's yapping.?