Deep divisions in "Doggie" commnunity

by Genuine sports fan Sun Mar 06, 2011 00:30

Yea, been reading recent posts on Greyhound Nuts forum. I think they do themselves no favours sometimes but theres a lot to be said for saying what you believe. Their moderator is a talented guy though, Tom Brett and his postings are very revealing even if i dont always agree with him. Tom tells it as it is.

Whats needed is to clean up the greyhound industry- not it close it down altogether, get rid of coursing first and then start treating greyhounds properly.

by Mike Novack Mon Mar 07, 2011 18:07

This is NOT intended to be in support of greyhound racing, or "coursing" (if it's releasing caged hares for dogs to chase), etc.
But there is something strange with the expressed attitude about NORMAL animal behavior.

"Setting one's dog on a hare"?

Are your Irish dogs not dogs? If you are out with your dogs do you not have to keep them on lead or otherwise restrained to prevent them from chasing any critter they see? Is it not normal canine behavior to attempt to run down, catch, and kill any squirrel, rabbit, hare, vole, grouse, pheasant, etc. etc. that they can? Not because the dog's person wants them to do this but because the dog wants to do this.

If you want a pet that is not a predator don't have a dog or a cat for a pet. Please, I am NOT saying that these animals can't live a complete life even if they are kept from their natural pursuit of prey. But that is because of what YOU want, not what they want. Whether it is immoral for YOU to kill another animal is a very different question from whether it is immoral for them to do so. And this is NOT a case of "they don't know any better" (not unless you are willing to take the posiiton that the natural world is immiora;, evil, etc.).

by Top Cat. Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:04

Get a grip Mike.

Animals are robots generated by DNA.

A cat has no mercy for the mouse that it is eating alive.
.

by Mike Novack Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:46

If they are just robots generated by DNA then so are we.

Look friend, the cat's mind or the dog's mind isn't our human mind, but it does exist in the sense that it is no less observable as a "mind of another" than you can observe this in a fellow human.

When I say this I am NOT meaning to imply that our emotions line up one to one. Some are analogs but some are different or absent.

You have not observed cats or dogs closely if you do not see analogs for emotions like:
fear
anger
jealousy
pleasure (with cats you can be very sure of this one)

But I agree with you, cats are predators that don't feel "mercy" toward the mouse.

Unlike dogs which act as if they expect us to read their minds you can see cats try to work out "how do I communicate to this human what I want him or her to do".

The dog relates to you as "pack member" and expects you to respond to normal inter dog messages. We have cracked very few of these as they are small, inconspicuous body "gestures". That dogs (wolves) would have needed such a system of rapid communication should be obvious when you realize that they are pack hunters. Note that the pack running after prey does not resemble the "Keystone Cops" bumping into each other, confusing who is to go left. who right.

Animal minds are evolved to fit the needs of the particular animal. The cats aren't pack hunters, less need to communicate this way (they do communicate --- you should recognize the "come here" chirp) so less built in. Precisely because they have to improvise communication it's easier to see.

by Jerry Hunt - Greryhound owner and Breeder Wed Mar 09, 2011 15:55

I know you will all be delighted to hear that the Judge awarded costs against the ICC of 640K, far to small an amount to bankrupt the club.
It is a great day for coursing and we look forward to Septmber already after the record attendance we had this year at all out meetings.

by Friend of the Irish Hare Thu Mar 10, 2011 21:39

Jerry Hunt can dream on. The damages awarded against the Irish Coursing Club were only the beginning. On March 30th costs will be awarded, and believe me these will be astronomical, certainly exceeding a million Euro.

As the ICC is already up the creek financially, this case will definitely spell its death. Hare coursing will still be legal unfortunately but will be weakened by the severe blow dealt to its governing body.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/icc-to-pay-640k-damages-....html

The "sport" that the Irish Coursing Club "governs"

by practical man Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:21

Those of you who are trying to extract and expand a little bit of frank discussion on forums into the disentigration of the greyhound community are not living in the real world if you believe your own propoganda.

As regards the damages awarded against the ICC, it amounts to €640,000. While substantial it is no where near fatal. The original case is under appeal to the supreme court and if this goes in the ICC favour the damages award will be null and void.

Coursing forms a major part of Irelands effort in promoting biodiversity in Ireland, and if it was not for the conservation efforts, all through voluntary work and support from the greyhound community, Hares and other wildlife would not be in as healthy a state as they currently are. My contention would be supported by the independent Quercus report commmisioned by Queens University College Belfast, in which they found that hares were 18 times more abundant in areas protected by coursing clubs as against areas which are not.

Using Moral arguments in relation to nature is out of place as another earlier poster commented. The overall good of the species and environment needs to be considered when evaluating the pros and cons of any action. Your attempts to ban coursing would be very counterproductive in the long run. I would respectfully suggest that perhaps the fever of the anti campaign and the money and buzz it generates for you over rides any logical thought process on the matter

by Countering pro-cruelty guff Sat Jun 25, 2011 23:12

Re conservation issue in relation to hare coursing, the main objection to coursing is animal welfare one. It's the welfare case that "did for" live coursing in other countries...after all the best evidence was examined and considered hare coursing was given the Thumbs Down and banned.

The animal is subjected in coursing to unnatural captivity and the stress of being terrorized in the park or enclosed field by blooded greyhounds. Apart from hares getting struck or tossed about (resulting in bone fractures that don't heal), many hares die from stress myopathy, a condition affecting some wild species including hares.

All this cruelty is both unnecessary, avoidable, and totally indefensible.

Given that a perfect alternative in the form of DRAG coursing exists and has worked well elsewhere, there is no earthly reason for allowing the capture and public organised baiting of these harmless creatures by coursing clubs.

Re the reference to various rival groups within the coursing fraternity, here's another view:

http://www.thegreyhoundstir-up.proboards.com/index.cgi?...age=1