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Syria: "Arab spring" in retreat

category international | anti-war / imperialism | other press author Thursday June 21, 2012 13:13author by pat c Report this post to the editors

The counter-revolution is on the march in Syria. It is important that all socialists realise this and do not end up supporting the imperialists who are waging this war through mercenaries and fundamentalists. Full text at link.

Over the last few weeks Socialist Worker has finally admitted what has been obvious for months: the uprising in Syria is not purely and simply a popular revolution. Editor Judith Orr concedes that there are “competing forces” involved and that the imperialists, together with reactionary Arab regimes, are bent on imposing their own ‘solution’. “But at the same time,” she concludes, “we must support the mass popular revolt from below that aims to bring down Assad’s brutal regime” (June 23).

Back in March Socialist Worker published a highly critical article by Sami Ramadani, who commented that, for the Socialist Workers Party, “Wishful thinking has replaced materialist analysis. We have to recognise that the imperialist-backed Arab counterrevolution has, in the short term, regained the initiative and is on the offensive.” While the protests in Syria “began spontaneously and were mostly led by progressives demanding radical political reform”, it is now clear that, “as in Libya, pro-Nato factions have captured the initiative” (March 24).

Free Syrian Army: paid for by Saudi Arabia
Free Syrian Army: paid for by Saudi Arabia

The point about Libya is well made. Apart from social-imperialists like the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty, just about everyone on the left was soon able to see that a victory for the National Transitional Council would represent a defeat for the Libyan revolution. Of course, in Libya the imperialists intervened directly and blatantly, using Nato air power to ensure that the forces of Muammar Gaddafi were destroyed. No-one could seriously deny that the new regime was placed in power by the west, and is totally bereft of democrats, progressives and working class partisans.

However, in Syria, a Libya-type military intervention does not seem to be on the cards. Nevertheless, as Ramadani pointed out, “Lebanon’s US-French-Israeli allies, pro-US Iraqi forces, Jordan, Libyan terrorists and Nato special forces are all assisting counterrevolution in Syria.” Groups such as the Free Syrian Army and the Syrian National Council are being funded by Turkey and Saudi Arabia. And, “Shaken by the uprisings, Qatari and Saudi sheiks provide funding for sectarian Muslim Brotherhood leaders and Salafi clerics.” But, remarks comrade Ramadani, “Socialist Worker astoundingly implies that FSA Nato-backed gunmen are revolutionaries.”

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author by pat cpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2012 14:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Full text at link.

CIA agents have been deployed to Turkey to organize the arming of the so-called rebels in Syria seeking the overthrow of the government of President Bashar al-Assad, the New York Times reported Thursday.

The report, citing information provided by senior US officials as well as Arab intelligence officers, states that the CIA operatives are directing a massive smuggling operation through which “automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries, including the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, and paid for by Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.”

The day before the publication of the Times piece, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland reiterated the Obama administration’s public line. “We have repeatedly said that we are not in the business of arming in Syria.” She went on to describe Syria’s ambassador to the United Nations, Bashar al-Jaafari as “deluded” for charging that major foreign powers were backing “armed terrorist groups” in his country and trying to escalate Syria’s crisis into an “explosion” in order to bring about “regime change.”

The Times article only confirms earlier press reports and provides further detail in exposing the same, barely covert, operation directed at fomenting and arming a sectarian civil war in Syria.

Last month, the Washington Post reported that the so-called rebels had “begun receiving significantly more and better weapons in recent weeks, an effort paid for by Persian Gulf nations and coordinated in part by the United States.” The Post, in its May 16 article, also stated that US operatives had “expanded contacts with opposition forces to provide the gulf nations with assessments of rebel credibility and command-and-control infrastructure.”

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author by An Draighneán Donnpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2012 02:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It was a sickening sight to see Libery Hall plastered last week with propaganda for "Amnesty International" a CIA front organization, that supported racist lynch mobs in Libya, and now supports child murdering gangs of Zionist mercenaries in Syria. It really shows the moral and intellectual collapse of the Western Left.

author by An Draighneán Donnpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2012 02:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Does the SWP now admit that it was wrong to support the racist lynch mobs in Libya, against the Socialist Jamahiriya? Now Libya is an horrific chaos, where murder, rape and torture are the everyday reality. The SWP were very much part of bringing this horror into being, as they supported the CIA and Mossad's plan for "régime change."

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jun 25, 2012 13:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

as the fog of war thickens towards uranium soup

author by Ivanapublication date Mon Jun 25, 2012 13:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Great site, thanks for the heads up.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jun 25, 2012 20:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Measured in their analysis, non-ideological, minimally conspiratorial...suits my mindset...its more stupidity and immaturity than actual malice and viciousness that creates the cruel and unacceptable fates of several billion in a sea of adequate wealth for all.
Blind ignorant gluttony rather than Dr No types. Trouble is the not-too-bright and ego-ambitious politicos the system selects are thick enough to buy into this black/white dichotomous analysis, which is fed by the real clever 'players' at the top who are so clever they dazzle themselves into narcissistic delusions of superiority..forgetting that supriority at blackjack or poker dont actually constitute human traits. Merely mathematical facility, the factor the microchip surpassed a whileen back. No doubt many nazis were no more evil than your average patriot. But dont tell the recruiting agent I said that.

another site worth visiting is

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is too fucking credible to dismiss

realpolitik picks its times carefully. And if Obama DID move, we'd probably have fresh November grassy knoll.

author by pat cpublication date Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The United States has sharply escalated its campaign against Syria over the weekend, in response to Syria’s shooting down of at Turkish fighter Friday.

After speaking to Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu, US secretary of state Hillary Clinton said on Sunday: “The United States condemns this brazen and unacceptable act in the strongest possible terms. It is yet another reflection of Syrian authorities’ callous disregard for international norms, human life and peace and security.”

UK foreign secretary William Hague echoed these threats, denouncing the incident as “outrageous.” He added, “The Assad regime should not make the mistake of believing that it can act with impunity. It will be held to account for its behavior.”

The Syrian government has said that the Turkish warplane had violated its airspace, with the SANA news agency releasing a chart of the plane’s fight path over Syrian waters and the coastal city of Latakia.

A Syrian foreign military spokesman has said that the incident was “not an attack.” The statement read, “An unidentified object entered our airspace and unfortunately was brought down. It was understood only later that it was a Turkish plane. There was no hostile act against Turkey whatsoever. It was just an act of defense of our sovereignty.”

The Turkish government initially acknowledged that it was possible the jet had “accidentally” flown over Syrian airspace during a routine reconnaissance operation. However, by Sunday, apparently after discussions with the US, Ankara had shifted its position to insist that the warplane had been shot down over international waters. ...

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Tue Jun 26, 2012 13:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..this morning was openly accepting that Turkey, Saudi 'and other regional actors' have been violently subverting Assad. They also alluded to the sectarian Sunni slaughter of Shi'ite 'heretics', driven of course by the Saudi Wahabbi fundamentalist 'base'i.e. al CIAda, from Afghanistan through Iraq and Pakistan and driving for the holy of holies...Shia Iran.

Saudi is also deeply implicated(along with Israel) in the destabilisation of Africa and its increasing apartheid balkanisation(do not forget apartheid also operated through isolating black tribal areas from each other for micro-control in SA). Ethnicity is at the heart of their sub-human racisms.
The residues of these policies are still a problem in SA, as they have proven here in Ireland since 'independence'.
And as my earlier post indicates, the road to Damascus leads to Teheran. Apparently shortly.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Wed Jun 27, 2012 15:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

so I'll insert this sideways

author by pat cpublication date Thu Jun 28, 2012 01:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Vids at link.

A damaged television monitor rests on debris at the site of an attack on the pro-government Al-Ikhbariya satellite television channel's offices outside Damascus, which killed three staff on June 27, 2012 after President Bashar al-Assad said Syria was in a "state of war' (AFP Photo / STR)

Syrian Information Minister Omran al-Zoubi put the responsibility for killing of seven TV staffers on the EU, Arab and International organizations. He called it “the worst massacre against journalism and the freedom of media.”

Seven journalists and workers in the Syrian al-Ikhbaryia Satellite Channel were killed on Wednesday morning in an attack by an armed group targeting the headquarters of al-Ikhbaryia. The assault occurred some 20 kilometres south of the capital Damascus.
They planted explosive devices at the headquarters of al-Ikhbaryia following their ransacking, and destroying the Satellite Channel studios, including the newsroom.

Photos show a heavily damaged room without a ceiling and tapes on fire amid piles of debris.
An employee at the station told Associated Press that several people were wounded in the attack and guards were kidnapped. He did not give his name for fear of repercussions, but said the gunmen drove him about 200 meters away, and then he heard the explosion of the station being destroyed.

A few hours after the attack, the station was still able to broadcast.

"This massacre won't go unpunished and the broadcast of the Syrian al-Ikhbaryia Satellite will not stop and we hold the EU and Arab and International organizations responsible for this massacre," Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) quotes Information Minister al-Zoubi as saying.“Those who committed this crime had carried out the decision of the Arab League Council to silence the voice of Syria."
Minister al-Zoubi said that this attack crowns the EU decision in Luxembourg to impose sanctions on Syrian TV and Radio in addition to the “continued campaigns of provocation against Syria.”

The minister’s comments on the assault come as Syria’s President Bashar Assad acknowledged that his country is now in a state of war.
"We live in a real state of war from all angles," he said. "When we are in a war, all policies and all sides and all sectors need to be directed at winning this war."
He was speaking on Tuesday at the first cabinet meeting of the newly sworn-in government. President Assad ordered the cabinet to direct all their efforts to beating the armed opposition.
Watch RT's Maria Finoshina's report fom the scene

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Jun 29, 2012 13:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and Uncle Kofi is steering the pincer

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 09:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The Syrian crisis is to be resolved by a transition government consisting of the current authorities and opposition leaders. The proposal was announced by UN-Arab League envoy Kofi Annan after talks in Geneva." ( From:

This might be good news for EVERYBODY (apart from the beneficiaries of the arms industry perhaps)? -- especially if it helps to get rid of the NATO warmongering which threatens to ignite a thermonuclear WW3 confrontation over the Syrian situation.

There is what I see as a short good-quality video interview (cleverly involving Kofi Annan in one brief section) at the www address provided above.

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors informed commentator on the UN, W....

I always thought it was against the Charter for any memeber to interfere in the internal affairs of another nation.

And 'transition government' dictated by Clinton??Where did she get that mandate??

As for Kofi...a minion of the Nato agenda to redraw the maps in the Wild East so the WASPs can build a fresh nest.

I do think you are being naive, W. Its a matter of time before any 'transition' arrangement become a glove-puppet for the oily hands of the 'rightful owners' of Iran's wealth.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..these transition proposals have been rejected by both Assad and the Nato-backed 'rebels'.

PR Ploy. a.k.a. smokescreen of reasonableness 'on our behalf'. We are the peacemakers wrestling with these recalcitrant natives. Tut Tut..we'll just have to take over.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Reply to opus at Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:31:

You seem to believe that Russia has no part of any significance to play in all this?

In a very rough and ready, yet POTENTIALLY very potent way, the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the large body of national and international legislation based on its principles, can be seen as a "constitution" of sorts for the protection of humanity as a whole.

Correctly or otherwise, the blurred global political "picture" I see emerging just now is that Russia is far more interested in abiding by this "constitution" (of sorts) than the US are at the present time.

Consequently, I see Russia as being on the "right track" at the present time, and the US as being on the wrong one.

Also, it seems to me that Russia are "playing their cards" far better that the US: possibly because Russia does not have any hidden agendas (I hope I'm right!!), and the present US Government is probably awash with them I suspect (as do you it would seem?).

Basically, it's (as I see things) the very long-standing "constitutionalism" versus "totalitarianism" conflict being played out in July 2012, with Syria playing the role of the "card table" at this particular time.

Russia under Mr Putin (who is an accomplished lawyer I think) genuinely believes in "constitutions" (i.e. the supreme law of nation states) I suspect, whereas the present US Government seems to be acting along totalitarian ("we'll do whatever we like, wherever we like, for as long as we like") lines.

The thing that I find interesting just now, is will Russia be able to shame (more or less) the present US Government, using peaceful and lawful means, into supporting the supreme law of its own and other nation states?

If anybody can, I think the Russians can (on present form): and they do have the law (i.e. international law) on their side.

We'll all just have to wait and see, and hope.

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 13:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors you concluded I was oblivious to Russia.

Russia is no more constitutional that any other just has more to gain from an orderly world system run on a basis of law..and is fearful of US predatory intentions on its vast resources.

Syria is just a stalking horse..the card-table(as you nicely put it) is the earth and its resources..and even beyond into space domination; the gluttony of imperial greed sees no limits.

Iran is the actual immediate target; Syria is just a buffer and ally of Teheran that needs removal before the serious oil can be reached, and taken back to its 'rightful owners'...and kept out of the reach of China, the one real threat to the PNAC(Project for a New American Century). If China can be kept on a coal diet it aids western 'envioronmental' propaganda sticks for its beating.

Russia is just being pragmatic, and maybe hoping sense will dawn in Washington..a vain hope...she's been off the rails since Cheyney&Co took the reins in 2001 and dismantled any democratic safeguards that remained. Its Big Oil and the War Inc of Halliburton/Bechtel and friends that steer the agenda.

I read it now as being like early '39'-'45 scenario, the axis(US/Nato)are moving eastwards for liebensraum(resources basically), and eradication of any egalitarian ideology(Islam this time, rather than the red menace)which is why the region is being balkanised for micro-management and extraction.

Problem is, in '39-'45 the global balance was satisfactory to the WASP axis and stability would have suited business as usual..Adolf was rippling the Britannic they played himself and Uncle Joe into a death clasp(Stalingrad et al)..then swept in and divided the spoils till the wall came down in '89 and the 19th century Great Game for the 'card table' globe became the only game worth throwing a die at.

Its all ahead full now for no competition to the NATO alliance until they have Russia and China broken up or under their corporate harness(which in many ways they already have, though its a bit of a Sumo stand off).

Possibility?Russia and China mobilise the General Assembly to reform and hobble the Security Council and drive for full nuclear decommissioning and introduce a truly new world order instead of the old order in fresh tinsel...but I can't see the vision manifesting in reality....19th century me fein nationalisms still have too secure a grip on our 21st century psyches..and that goes for China and Russia as it does for Ireland(and its the small states like Ireland who have most to gain, and least to lose, from renewing the necesary human solidarity that emerged after each of the 20th centuries great imperial collisions). Unfortunately, lessons fade.

Tell me where I misread.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 16:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Reply to opus at Mon Jul 02, 2012 13:24

"Tell me where I misread."

You might not have misread.

" ... it (Russia) just has more to gain from an orderly world system run on a basis of law ..."

So does just about everybody I would say, where the "law" in question is based on human rights law of the UN UDHR kind: apart of course from the relatively small group of "Money Power Psychopaths" who arrogantly insist on being a global "Might is Right" law unto themselves.


"Another emerging oligarchy is the domination of the United States political leadership by people associated with Harvard and Yale. All nine members of the current Supreme Court attended Harvard or Yale law schools. The last member appointed to the court who was not a former student at one of those two institutions was Sandra Day O'Connor, appointed by the newly elected President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Reagan was also the last United States President who did not attend either Harvard or Yale."

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 17:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That psychopathic pinhead of compulsive gamblers are addicted to reaping their 'creative destruction' hurricane of war-profits.

Seems .5% of the population now own 38% of the earths wealth. That leaves them plenty of spare Change to keep the mediocrats embedded in their backgrounded Project for a NAC.

Even as a statistical approximation its sickeningly unbalanced. And I mean that diagnostically, I personally don't get seasick.

author by Pmgisme@eircom..netpublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 17:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You only have to listen to the Syriian cries "Allah Achbar' to realise that the Russians are right.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 02, 2012 18:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors the expansion of the Saudi Wahabbi fundamentalist Sunni sectarianism as part of the sectarian balkanisation of the region...I've just found an EU group under the wing of the UNPO dicussing the establishment of a 'federal Iranian state' in the name of the same human rights that have seen the vivisection of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Libya....spilling now south into the Sahel/Mali/Nigeria and beyond..the micro-fragmentation of the globe for micromanagement and extraction at the diktat of the corporatariat resource-monopolisers.

These are the core al CIAda disrupt and extract facilitators..this killing-season's Black and Tan/Auxilary death-squad rent-a-terrorist...not unlike the squads trained in the School of the Americas before the rebrand.

If you have to run a War On Terror...first procure and secure your Terror. Then add weapons as required..Saudi is currently doing just that, its largely an anti-Shia Crusade/ can guess who else is rubbing their hegemonic little aparheid fists.

Russia is worried because the tide is rising towards the band of new southern 'republics'...not a pretty prospect, any more than it can be for China...but WarInc is stoically persevering...and counting its grubby shekels.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Tue Jul 03, 2012 18:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What I think we are witnessing is the lead-up to the final conflict between the "oligarchies" (of the City of London, Wall Street, Westminster, Washington, and other closely associated places such as Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, and Harvard for example) and the "peoples" (of the sovereign nation states of the world) -- as represented by the two very basic and deeply conflicting forms of governance sometimes labelled as "totalitarianism" and "constitutionalism -- a very long-running conflict which almost certainly began thousands of years before the written records of humanity started to appear, but, which might not survive beyond the end of this year?

The Internet has made the world too small a place for both these systems -- and their seemingly endless wars -- to co-exist for much longer; and, assuming both don't destroy each other in a WW3 thermonuclear conflict ignited by the Syrian and/or other closely related armed conflicts now in progress, one of these two leading systems will find itself "sleeping with the dinosaurs" before very much longer I'd nearly say?

As it's impossible for anybody to predict with certainty which side will eventually emerge as the final victor, perhaps (for the time being at least) we all just simply have to think along the lines that "the opera ain't over till the fat lady sings (her final song)"?

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author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Wed Jul 04, 2012 14:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

multiple ways of looking at it.

I tend to look at it as a collective psychosis problem(the most virulent forms being the various fascisms/ultra-nationalisms/tribalisms/gangsterisms)..mindsets that fall short of identifying with humanity in both senses, the collective of the species, and the practise of humane behaviour as best we can in a vicious, inhumane politically pre-human society(in that a fully human society would by definition be inclusive rather than a set of contending exclusive elites, co-operating for convenience, but ultimately competing for top-dog position). If we could realise that our 'normality' is actually a starched and sanitised collective and barbaric pathology we might emerge into sanity and a co-operative social agreement; but the psychos running it would see themselves losing if anything resembling equalty broke up their pyramids of insecure status(an animal pecking-order throw-back to our biological origins).

The real cul-de-sacs are the superficially inclusive abstraction ideologies like religions or -isms which profess to be universal(catholic, nationalised socialisms)but in practise have degenerated into sectarian clubs protecting their congregational territory for self-promotion as institutions. We've seen where that poisonous oxymoronic set of liturgical mantras can lead across the globe, with European military expansion under the cross and the centralised dictatorships of various spokesmen for an abstracted proletarian humanity defined by industrial productivity measures.

I also tend to see it as an evolutionary crux, we either achieve our potential to build a fully human civilisation and establish a culture of global co-operative democratic self-management, or go down like any other set of dinosaurs under the weight of our redundant inability to evolve to fit our altered times and self-altered environment.

I think it will probably be the Einstein exit..he reckoned the fourth world war would be fought with sticks and the next set of emergent hominids after we pulled the nuclear chain on ourselves.

Seems a is another theatre of contention the gluttons are opening up for breakdown and extraction

Given their insatiablility, and apparent gambling-addiction, there aint a lot of room for optimism. I suspect that, like Adolf, if their rattle(the imperial Great Game)were taken away, they would head for their bunkers and pull the nuclear triggers.

author by An Drighneán Donnpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The question is, why is the so called Western Left either still supporting the Fascist lynch mobs (as the SWP etc. did in Libya), on else keeping their heads down and hoping nobody will notice? Has the leaderships of the Left in Europe and the US been totally bought by NATO?

author by Anti-CIA Propagandapublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Has the leaderships of the Left in Europe and the US been totally bought by NATO?"

One doesn't even need to go that far afield - just looking at some of the recent behaviour of some self-identified members of the so-called 'Left' that regularly post up 'stories' (for that is all most of them are, 'Stories) here attacking Iran and Russia.

Some of the same people are curiously quite at the moment about far worse behaviour from NATO countries. They very often only tell part of the 'story' - and again curiously enough it is usually only the part of the story that the Pro-NATO Western media are also highlighting, leaving out very very salient FACTS regarding financing and supply etc

author by pat cpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I posted the article which starts off this this thread. Its from the CPGB and clearly takes an anti-imperialist line on Syria as does the one from WSWS.ORG Looking over the sites of Irish Left groups I don't see recent articles about Syria apart from one by the SWP . The CPGB article makes pertinent criticisms of the SWPs line on Syria.

author by ACPpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

that these 'Communists' are still pushing the ficition that there ever was any so-called 'Arab Spring'

About the only real genuine 'Arab Spring' I have seen recently occured in Bahrain - and that has been brutally suppressed

All other 'Arab Spring' events were either co-opted shortly after they started or were covers for internal coups where one set of dodgy bastards kicked out another set of dodgy bastards.

Libya for example, as well as Syria, were from the very start nothing but violence perpetrated by NATO financed and armed mercenary gangs. From the very start - yet most of the 'Socilaists' linked to at this site seemed not to care about any of that.

I'm surprised that the Communists are still peddling that Western-Media origination propagandistic phrase 'Arab Spring' - or at least I would be if I trusted the Communists and considered them to be actual real 'Socialists'

author by ACPpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This week Venezuela celebrates 200 years of independence.

There have been huge celebration and parades across the country.

The armed forces have been pledging their loyalty to the Bolivarian republic of Venezuela on more then 1 occasion. Election for the president takes place this year,

the USA and the opposition have been putting out false opinion polls showing the opposition candidate winning by over 50%. Not so dissimiliar to what happened in Iran and BBC current polls about sanctions and nuclear program.

I suspect the Empire might want to get done with Syria pretty quick and then concentrate on Venezuela.

author by pat cpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

that anyone who doesn't completely agree with you is suspect. Apart from the use of the phrase "Arab Spring" what do you disagree with in the articles by the CPGB and WSWS above?

author by pat cpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with you on Venezuela but this thread is about Syria, lets keep it to that.

author by ACPpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"that anyone who doesn't completely agree with you is suspect. "

because 'being suspect' is eerily similar to what some of the so-called 'Socialists' around here have been accusing me of lately - all because I dared to point out certtain easily accessible FACTS that they themselves were refusing to mention and refusing to acknowledge once mentioned.

Perhaps you noticed it in other threads, Pat?

Well to be honest I didn't even bother readin the WSWS stuff that was posted. since I gave up trusting the WSWS a looooooooong time ago, round about the time they were cheering on the fake 'revolution' in Libya, despite it being obvious that the rather revolting individuals fighting Ghaddafii were bought and paid-for mercenaries in the pay of NATO

so why bother reading the words of a group that already proved themsleves to be willing to deliberately ignore the obvious NATO financing of the socalled 'rebels' in Libya?


As for Communists - well I think you might already know what I think about communists - after I found out that the Communists in Russia were originally financed by Wall Street I also stopped trusting Communists - and given that they are STILL using the phrase 'Arab Spring', despite it being fairly obvious to anyone poaying attention, that there really was no 'Arab Spring' anywhere but Bahrain, that phrase is nothing but Western/NATO propaganda,

So given that the Communists party of GB are still using the phrase 'Arab Spring', It appears to me that they too, like the WSWS are not averse to peddling NATO propaganda when it suits some agenda they might have

author by pat cpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Article on Venezuela:

author by ACPpublication date Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

if anyone here knows anyone else, besides WSWS and the Communists of GB, that might be prepared to peddle NATO propaganda whilst claiming to be Anti-Imperialst, well don't be surprised if you see me questrioning their motives -

can't help it ,see?

- I'm very very suspicious of people that deliberately set out to deceive me, whether through outright lies or through simply hiding very important bits of the story

author by An Drighneán Donnpublication date Sat Jul 07, 2012 06:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I see that that dirt bag rat, Eamonn Gilmore attended the US imperialist meeting in Paris, to discuss the initiation of a sectarian Holocast in Syria. If there are any Labour members on this site, it time for you to leave these scum. Labour is pure filth.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Russia and China once again opted not to attend the 'Friends of Syria' meeting. Neither Moscow nor Beijing believe the meeting in the French capital will be helpful in uniting the Syrian opposition 'on a constructive basis'”.

" 'We have frankly laid out the reasons why we have restrained from joining the mechanism, the very name of which has a contradiction between the word and the deed,' Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said earlier this week."

“We categorically reject that such a question would even be posed regarding the current situation in Syria and Russia’s ‘backing’ of President Bashar Assad. This is not a question of supporting certain political figures or leaders. This is a question of managing a crisis situation in the country within a normal political framework,” Ryabkov said.

The above excerpts are from an RT article published on 06 July 2012 at:

It seems to me that NOTHING other than "regime change" will satisfy the "Friends of Syria", and their "City of London & Wall Street Puppet Masters": the "Money Power Psychopaths" in other words.

Related Link:

author by pat cpublication date Sun Jul 08, 2012 13:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

An interesting comparison, in both cases jihadists become freedom fighters.

The Western media's coverage of the Syrian conflict has drawn comparisons to how it covered conflicts in the past, most notably the series of brutal wars that accompanied the disintegration of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

James Jatras, the director of the American Council on Kosovo, believes the similarities between the two conflicts run deep.

“There are similarities on three crucial levels when we look at Syria,” Jatras told RT. “One has to do with the international system, the rule of law, the role of the Security Council. Another has to do with the status of sovereign states, and how you treat a sovereign state that has an insurgency within its borders.”

The third level involves taking a complex situation involving atrocities and violence committed on both sides of the conflict, and attributing them only to one side.

“What you do is come up with a concept, and you fit the facts into the concept. You don’t take a step back in good faith, look at what’s really going on, look at the suffering of people on both sides,” Jatras noted.

Jatras believes that the West has essentially been pouring gasoline on a smoldering fire, using words like “genocide,” and only wants victory for one side and utter destruction for the other. He also took note of the similar fates of the Christian population in both the Kosovo and the Syrian conflict.

“Why is it that in the name of fighting terrorism and promoting democracy, the United States always seems to find itself on the side of jihadist elements engaging in terrorism with predictable results for the Christian population, as we saw in Kosovo when half of the Orthodox Serb population had to flee the province, and thousands of them were killed by the ‘liberators,’ – the Kosovo Liberation Army?"

Jatras told RT that there are several reasons why the United States may be willing to support Islamic fundamentalists. Most importantly, it is America’s cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, and hence its desire to show it has its friends' backs when it comes to facilitating an environment for international commerce.

Related Link:
author by An Drighneán Donnpublication date Sun Jul 08, 2012 22:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think, at the most fundamental level, the US ruling class is comfortable with the Islamic Fundamentalists for one reason - they love private property. That will always make Jihads the natural ally of the USA against Socialism. And that's why it was obscene that groups like the SWP were on the side of the Islamic Fundamentalists in Libya. The whole purpose of the attack on Libya was to smash the secular Socialist state, and impose a régime of privatization. The same is true of the attack on Syria. Even the Vatican is staying very quiet about the fact that two million Christians are in grave danger of being massacred by Salafist fanatics, backed up by Israel and the USA. The Vatican would rather see Christians butchered than pass up the opportunity to smash a Socialist state.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 09, 2012 14:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..has never been far from fascistic least back to its brainwave Crusades to divert the European 'surplus' youth crises threatening ye olde pyramidic and aristocratic world order. Blessing weapons and battle-fleets since kingdom came under its programmatic design in the name of a peasant carpenter who preached an inflammatory egalitarianism and blasphemed against the pontiff of his times, Caiaphas, high-priest of the temple Sanhedrin.

Nor was it ever distant from the racist and sectarian colonisations of the 'savage and heathen' New World and the slave-plantation states of both north and south Americas( 85% of Paraguyan land is the hands of 2% of the population. That 2% looks after its bishops for blessing the sacred status quo).

From Mussolini, ye ol' original of ye fascist species, through Franco and into collaboration with Uncle Adolf..never a qualm crossed (oops) its pristine cistine concience..

Need we mention Mudder Oirland and the child-sacrafice savagery?

Even the Vatican?Why change a successful operation at this stage?They'll bless a nuclear silo for a slice of the action.

author by atheistpublication date Tue Jul 10, 2012 14:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you only need to look at their actions regarding the soft coup in paraguay to see that it is business as usual with the vatican.

The pope sent a personal letter to try and help prevent the extradition of pinochet to justice in chile.

Pinochet was a monster, but at least he wasn't a socialist! Thats their view. Anything that helps consolidate their power base further is good, no matter how bloody.

And no condoms allowed for use by aids threatened black people in africa by decree. These fucking vatican people are pure evil. They have no proper moral compass at all.

author by pat cpublication date Tue Jul 10, 2012 19:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Update on foreign interventions. Full text at link.

Syria is conducting military manoeuvres simulating an invasion, in response to escalating threats from Washington and its regional allies.

The large-scale exercise, which began Saturday, is based upon a response to external aggression and includes both air and ground forces and the firing of live missiles.

Defence Minister Dawood Rajiha said naval forces had showed “a high level of combat training and ability to defend Syria’s shores against any possible aggression.”

Turkey has repeatedly scrambled fighter aircraft and moved additional troops to the border following Syria’s downing of a Phantom-4 reconnaissance jet on June 22. Border incursions by the Free Syrian Army based in Turkey are becoming ever-more frequent, and fighting is now frequent along the border with Lebanon.

Syria’s news agency SANA said the country’s troops had foiled infiltration attempts by armed men from Turkey and Lebanon on Friday, with one clash resulting “in the killing, injury of dozens of the infiltrated gunmen.”

In Idlib province, an armed group was prevented from infiltrating from Turkey in the Harem region, SANA added, leading to a number of deaths.

On Saturday, mortar fire from Syria reportedly hit Lebanese villages in the north, with a disputed number of casualties. North Lebanon is an established base for forces opposing the government of Bashar al-Assad and the country is rapidly polarising into two camps echoing divisions in Syria itself.

Armed Sunni militias in Lebanon are being cultivated and supplied by the United States, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey directed against both Assad in Syria AND Prime Minister Najib Mikati’s Hezbollah-backed government which is allied with Iran and Syria.

Related Link:
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..into the region..Her right royal highness queen Hillary out-Thatchers the original maggot of the species..truly she possesseth the global imperial madate...I suppose it suits Obambi's re-election strategy..he'll play nice cop.

Demented seems too mild a word for her harangues..distinct whiff of Nurnberg sulphur of the girl. Self-intoxicated with power.

author by ACPpublication date Wed Jul 11, 2012 22:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Debating Amnesty About Syria and Double Standards -
by Joe Emersberger

I sent the following note to Amnesty on June 16 after it put out a detailed report on the conflict in Syria:

    Dear Amnesty

    In your most recent report on Syria you ask the UN Security Council to impose an arms embargo on the Syrian government. You ask for no such arms embargo on the Syrian rebels and only ask that the Security Council "request" of states who supply the rebels that they put "mechanisms" in place to prevent the arms from being used to violate human rights:

    In 2009, you asked for the Security Council to "to impose an immediate, comprehensive arms embargo on all parties to the conflict in Gaza" (my emphasis):
    Please explain why you think arming Palestinians is harmful to a peaceful resolution of the conflict in Gaza, while apparently believing that arming rebels in Syria is benign or perhaps even helpful.

    Would you trust the Assad regime to arms rebels in foreign countries in such a way as prevent human rights abuses? What is it about the track record of the Saudi state or the US government that makes Amnesty believe that they would ever attempt to arm the Syrian rebels in such a way as to prevent human rights abuses -- assuming such a feat is even possible?

    I've rarely received replies to the numerous notes I've sent Amnesty over the years. I was surprised to see this one on July 4: . . . "

People are beginning to notice . . . .

author by pat cpublication date Thu Jul 12, 2012 00:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In keeping with its contractual obligations, Russia will continue to supply Syria with arms and military hardware, including anti-aircraft defense systems, a top Russian official in charge of military-technical cooperation has told reporters.

“Russia has its obligations to Syria under contracts that had been previously signed,” Vyacheslav Dzirkaln, the head of the Military Technical Cooperation service, told reporters at the Farnborough air show.

Dzirkaln also mentioned contracts related to the “delivery of anti-aircraft weapons,” as well as helicopters serviced in Russia.
These contracts have been fulfilled and will continue to be fulfilled, he said, while adding that Russia is exploring how to fulfil its obligations to Syria “without causing damage to ourselves and without (attracting) provocation from other forces interested in this.”
The official stressed that Russia’s military contacts with the Syrian government are strictly related to defensive weapons.

“We are supplying arms and hardware of a purely defensive nature,” he said. “It cannot be said that we have introduced an embargo on military supplies to Syria.”

Dzirkaln also told reporters that currently there are no Russian military specialists working with the Syrian Army.
Russian specialists are working only at the Russian Navy logistics center in Tartus, he said.

Related Link:
author by skrypt_kyddiepublication date Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Please explain why you think arming Palestinians is harmful to a peaceful resolution of the conflict in Gaza, while apparently believing that arming rebels in Syria is benign or perhaps even helpful.

Heh! thats a really good question for Amnasty there ACP. They have a few to answer these days. Including their open support for Harding the plagarist anti russian journalist / propagandist who also recently attacked the rather interesting wikileaks program on RT.

more discussion of Amnasty/harding and further info here...

Most normal members of Amnesty are no doubt well meaning and they do some good work, but it looks like attempts have been made to co-opt the organisation at the top in the US.

Here is an interesting quote from a comment by another poster:

"Our first clue comes from who currently runs Amnesty International - Suzanne Nossel, Amnesty US Executive Director.

Nossel had just finished a stint as Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Organizations at the U.S. Department of State before being appointed as head of Amnesty. She was also vice-president of strategy and operations for the Wall Street Journal and a media and entertainment consultant at McKinsey & Company (a Council on Foreign Relations "founding" corporate member). Clearly manipulating public perception is a specialty of hers, one certainly being put into good use now regarding Syria.

Nossel, while at the State Department, speaks about the US-engineered "Arab Spring" and the US' role in supporting opposition groups. She is speaking at the National Iranian American Council, and specifically cites the Brookings Institution to make her case about human rights abuses in Iran. One wonders if Nossel also thumbed through Brookings' "Which Path to Persia?" report which openly conspires to overthrow Iran via covertly backed "color revolutions," arming listed terrorist groups (as the US is now doing in Syria), and provoking Iran into a war it does not want. Nossel is obviously continuing her work of undermining sovereign nations by leveraging the cause of human rights at Amnesty International."

RatherThought provoking stuff indeed!!

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Thu Jul 12, 2012 14:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..Phillip Agee's 'Inside the Company:CIA Diary'(1975, Penguin)(amazon have copies still) he lists Amnesty among the organisations they used regularly for driving their agendas. He spent 20 years as an operative in Latin America before sickening of their shit.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

thats how the system usually works...more innocence(ignorance?) than malice.

Roads to Hell and good intentions et al.

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