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Right to Abortion -- can the movement match the opposition?
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rights, freedoms and repression |
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Monday February 18, 2013 11:06 by Diarmuid Breatnach - Personal Capacity
The anti-abortion movement is well funded and militant -- the right to abortion movement will need to match them in militancy
The anti-abortion movement was not cowed by the outcry over Savita's tragic death nor by the huge popular response marching in November. The Government plans legislation only to allow abortion when the woman's life is danger and the criteria for establishing that are not yet known. All opinion polls on the subject show a huge majority in favour of liberalisation of the laws -- a majority which is also rising over the years. The abortion rights movement has been publicly quiet for some time now while the opposition is loud and in public view. Can the movement for abortion rights summon the necessary militancy to achieve its objectives?
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The Death of Savita Halappanavar - Some Thoughts |
The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar, dying in an Irish hospital during a miscarriage after being refused an abortion, shocked the nation. It might have been thought that the outcry then, followed by the protest demonstration of at least 20,000 in November in Dublin, along with other protests in Ireland and abroad, would have put the anti-abortion movement on the back foot. On the contrary, they have been on the offensive since.
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Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13The surveys you cite weak on the specifics of the questions posed to participants, like the self-declared suicide plea. Everyone, not just the majority, is in favour of a woman's life being protected where necessary but very few are in favour of a woman claiming she is suicidal to obtain an abortion for reasons of personal choice. A poll carried out with a clear question on the suicide issue would get a more pertinent answer. It is afterall the suicide issue that is at issue. In short the wooliness of the polls you cite make them useless at best. It's all in how you pose the question you know.
It might not be big enough to legalize the abortion in this country, but yes, the movement for the legalization of abortion (i find the words "pro-life" and "pro-choice" rather silly so I will avoid using them) already matched the very well funded organizations backed by the church, wealthy individuals and the 2 biggest parties of this country.
The rally after Savita death, with not even a tenth of the resources, had around the same size, (the media can downplay as much as they want, it's undeniable that at least 25k were there) with no counter demonstration, just a handful of OAPs shouting "babykillers" to the people marching. The hugely staged "pro-life" march had free buses from outside Dublin, younger and better looking people were put in the front by the organizers, in order to give a more "diverse" look than the reality that 90% were the average bigot. Only "official" placards given in a tent were allowed. Was a professional event, with hired staff, looking more like a huge match or festival. Unlike the earlier march, there was a counter demonstration with (Irish media numbers, then again, very likely to be downplayed).
40% of women, despite all the propaganda against and the hundreds of years of catholic culture in this country is, yes, a huge number. It's a matter of fact. One or two generations ago, homossexualism and divorce were illegal in this country. You can't control the modernization and awereness of the society. I don't have the age crossbreaks of the poll mentioned, but you can see the huge difference of thinking among the young people.
But I agree that more action is needed. We can't wait for the women rights to come to this country by inertia. I don't know though, what more can be done with the money and resources we have. Everything is wrong in this country currently, the society is broken, people are jobless, crime in the rise. People are starting to get jaded. We have protests for different reasons in front of the Dail week in, week out. I don't know what more can be done. If the current level of activity helped, we would have already brought down the government. Irish people need to do more. But I can't think of a solution myself.
I think only a male would really say this. Some women find it offensive when males give their opinion beyond being supportive of her/their ability to make a decision about her/their body.
I am pro-choice because I have a penis and abortion will never affect me. What I do is campaign when my female comrades invite me to do so, but I still wouldn't go beyond being pro-choice. This reminds me of a conversation I had with a male who told me he was a feminist. It made me entirely uncomfortable that a heterosexual male thought he understood femininity/female reproduction/sexual repression/patriarchy/misogyny etc, these issues are reserved for women/females. In my overall experiences men are quite insensitive to lots of issues that affect women (sometimes even disregarding a womans opinion on a female issue!), and men also spend quite a bit of time actively speaking over/not listening to women, thinking they understand issues better because they have a different biological make-up. Simply put,I don't think you should play with words so lightly. I don't think there is anything even close to silly about being careful about the words people choose to use, especially when it comes to men talking about issues they will never, and can never fully understand due to complete and utter lack of real-life experience.
I am hardly even pro-choice anyway, I'm pro-it's-not-a-males-issue.
*Fuck patriarchy, fuck capitalism...
To say that men are not entitled to an opinion on abortion is nonsense; of course they are. If your wife/girlfriend/partner wants to have an abortion, then of course that affects you and you are entitled to an opinion. As regards the male saying he is a feminist, fair play to him. Any man brave enough to express his solidarity with women in such a manner is to be applauded not castigated. The division between men and women is an artificial one, for the most part.
Yep, only a man could possibly say all of this. Amazing. If something is happening inside a womans body, a male, such as myself, has absolutely no say over what happens next. A male should have no say - whatsoever - in what happens inside a womans body. I get these ideas from my feminists comrades. Your opinion means nothing unless it becomes pressure. Fine, you could say 'I think it's a bad idea'. Anything else is typical patriarchal nonsense.
And with regards to men calling themselves feminist, it's like white Americans calling themselves black nationalists, it makes no sense at all. If a man become sensitive enough (and starts listening to his female comrade) he will discover that active feminists strongly disagree with males using that term to describe themselves.
And this. ;The division between men and women is an artificial one, for the most part', talk to rape victims. This line if offensive and insensitive.
Start listening to women (and try not to interrupt them)...
I think you need to have a chat with your feminist comrades about listening and respect. I have numerous feminist friends and colleagues who would totally and utterly disagree with your "feminist comrades", whatever that means.
Everyone has a right to an opinion-this isn't Soviet Russia comrade.
Expressing an opinion is not the same as imposing your view on another person and expect them to comply. Of course, one has to be circumspect in regards to someone who is vulnerable, and of course at the end of the day, it is a woman's decision; however, in the real world, things are not so simple and are far more nuanced.
I am a male; does that mean I am patriarchal and can never absolve myself of that original sin, metaphorically speaking. Patriarchy is a system that abhors me. I have a mother, a sister, a wife, 5 nieces, many female friends and colleagues. I describe myself as a feminist, or a least pro-feminist and make no apologies for it.
Solidarity is the key! Robbing people of their right to an opinion-especially if you disagree with it-is dictatorship and patriarchal. Check out Paolo Freire: Pedagogy of The oppressed.
Bobby, Ecologist, you are clearly both supportive women's rights. Please stop the divisive bunfight and get back to helping to challenge the real enemies of women's rights in our society. :-)
I wanted to stop reading after the first word, 'nonsense'. I guess I've been listening to men all my life telling me women are 'talking nonsense when it comes to any issue be it small and silly, or large and damaging. I don't think you should apologies for calling yourself pro-feminist, I do too. As for the little jives about ''feminist comrades'' and mentioning Soviet Russia, I think it's childish and I didn't really want to respond to it (I see you say 'whatever that means' when referring to the word comrade, do you really not know what a comrade is? It happens through working together and building mutual trust. I would like to point out that I gathered my ideas through personal experiences, and more importantly, through meeting feminist activists wherever I go, and I engage with them in a capacity they expect/request. I'm upset that a male, self-defining pro-feminist in Ireland decided to use 'Nonsense' as their headline word. By the way, put any thought into the comparison of a white American radical calling themselves black nationalist? If a black activist asked a white activists not to use certain terms, I don't think it's 'robbing' your right to an opinion, as you so grimly suggested I am doing.
On that note, the paragraph about robbing your opinion, I find it baffling. Are you trying to say I am robbing your opinion, or are you just reminding me? The whole point of this conversation - from my perspective - is that men are so utterly and disgustingly insensitive to women, and it took me a decade to realise my own prejudices, and I want other men to respond to these ideas, without getting defensive and implying I am a Stalinist. I am anti-authoritarian, hence my pro-woman's right stance. I'm defending feminist ideas - which I gathered from very active feminists/feminist groups in Ireland and beyond, and I will certainly not make an apology about it.
Lastly, I take this issue very serious (women's rights and all that it entails), and I don't appreciate the way you're trying to drag the tone down.
I didn't intend to drag the tone down and I do concede some of my comments were not helpful and I apologise sincerely for that. I think we have a lot more in common than I gave credit for.
Thanks for that clear reply and I don't disagree with your points.
I remain 100% committed to equality and justice.
In Solidarity.
RE.
I wrote my article as a contribution towards practical action and I find it sad that so little of the comments contributed any further in that direction. Let's hope the 'silent' readers are getting on with the action.
"I am pro-choice because I have a penis and abortion will never affect me." - Bobby
If you are gay, i.e. not having sex with women then you can safely make that assertion but for hetro males sex always carries some risk of pregnancy. And yes, that baby is in the woman's womb but it's not her exclusive property. It's their baby, plural. Father's have rights too. These are the rights that go along with the responsibilities that will fall on him should she chooses to keep the baby and legally bind him to support it for 18+ years. It's hard to believe a man can hold the views you do. You sound more like a young woman that has been indoctrinated with factoids and other misandrist misrepresentations on a women's studies course. Your warcry of "fcuk the Patriarchy....". Really? You believe there is an invisible 'Patriarchy' oppressing women? And you are a man? A man who lives in the sea of misandrist hate we call society? A society where women claim privilidge and right's in every area, even those to which they have not earned admission, solely in the name of 'equality' and by using the threat of hysterical outbursts by groups of young women who have been indoctrinated in hate and set with fear and loathing of men in the afore mentioned women's studies and gender studies courses.
I just want to ask MandyDandy to explain the following sentence: "A society where women claim privilidge and right's in every area, even those to which they have not earned admission". I'd really love to know what is meant by this.
As I look around me, I don't see women progressing forward much, but rather a systematic media campaign promoting the undermining and objectification of women bearing a bumper crop of fruit in the current generation.
Feminism has been set back 20 years. Just talk to some younger girls, and watch TV
People like the previous misogynist commenter "MandyDandy" have little to fear alas.
Personally I'm very sad to have to witness this apparent regression having lived through much of the progress made towards mutual respect and equality by the feminist movement. And that's coming from a Man!