Call for a Socialist Bloc issued by the Socialist Workers Party

by Paul Moloney - Somewhere in the Twenty-First Century Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:26 paul_moloney at hotmail dot com

... or is that the sound of frightened people backing away...

===

Nick Cohen
July 21 2003

Why is a British socialist group forming a political alliance with repressive, Islamic fundamentalists? Because it really is exceedingly stupid, suggests Nick Cohen

As with Voltaire's Holy Roman Empire, the Socialist Workers Party negates the meaning of every word in its title. It never had much to do with the workers: like a minor public school, the SWP is a home for dim, middle-class children. For years it has been a sect or cult rather than a party - think of the Moonies, but without the smiles. Now it is giving up on socialism to form an alliance with Islamic fundamentalism.

==

More at:

http://www.newstatesman.com

by Agent of Chaos Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:47

This is what Oisin thinks of Indymedia:

Socialist Youth Discussion Board
"Oisin


Title: Registered

Posts: 29
Joined: June 2003 Posted: July 1 2003, 4:12 #219
Don't bother

Indymedia Ireland is not worth even bothering with. It does not have many genuine people looking for alternative media and news.

It's infested with a small number of Anarcho types that get a sick kick out of having a go at the SP and the SWP.

There's no longer an point in going on as they will just have a go at us for no reason just to stir it up. "

So why does he still post his drivel here?

by Tom Luby Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:08

About Connolly and Left Unity, The article by William Walker seems to show that the SP stand in the tradition of Walker while the SWP would come from the Socialist Republican lineage of Connolly.

by iosaf mac diarmada - 5º international. Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:14 barcelona

as such to join with the activists and marxists of the 4º international in Ireland.
be they representated by
Richard Boyd Barrett Esq or Deputy Joe Higgins TD.

However in the long term interest of the "Left" in Ireland I can not let any reader forget that Richard Boyd Barrett Esq has failed to develop the "left" or show himself either suitable or capable of the ·status· afforded him by the general media. That ought be of concern to the members of his party.

I hope that the activists of the 4º international in Ireland will happily join with all those who visit Dublin in October to participate together in creative protest and postive information on the theme of "capitalism and competition".

I sincerely hope that neither activists of the 4º international, or the leadership of it's Irish sections, or the media contacts reliant on same for content, condemn any pacifist direct action or peaceful civil disobedient action during that time.

[now this is a front page feature, and over on uk imc, ireland made front page "from rhetoric to action" announcing the October W€F meeting. We are assembling many blocks, we need not spend too much time on the red block of ireland which counts less than 5000 members. I suggest the next "search" for unity of purpose ought be the galvanisation of the "green eco" blocks in ireland].

meanwhile a international call to action was mentioned above.

Dublin W€F
Oct 18th-Oct 20th
Capitalism and Competition.
"The Mammy Harney putting Dublin on the Map"

by watching the clock Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:52

.

by AoC Fri Jul 18, 2003 13:53

Ah c'mon how is it trolling to publicize Oisins comments. If he thinks so poorly of Indymedia then he should not post here.

by lish Fri Jul 18, 2003 15:45

what about all the other interested people? how about a collective of everyone interested in alternative globalization ( altermondialistes) whether ngo's, anarchists, environmentalists, church groups etc. is it really necessary to characterise this as socialist, doesn't that merely exclude other groups? also i sense a subtext of a coalition led by the swp & that ain't happenin'.

by j18 Fri Jul 18, 2003 18:44

did you think i'd so happily join with the SWP?
cretins.

by anarchist Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:42

I thought maybe Ireland at least would have protest without newspaper hawking morons. Guess I'm wrong.

by Anonymous Fri Jul 18, 2003 20:47

First of all ref. Lish's comment above about a collective for all other "similar" groups/individuals.

Such a collective already exists in the Irish Social Forum, which has been set up within the last year. This Forum is part of the European Social Forum, which in turn is part of the World Social Forum. The Irish Forum in turn is developing regional forums throughout Ireland.

I would have great hopes for these national and worldwide forums. If such forums can get stronger & bigger, and with the use of the internet to facilitate easy and more or less free communication within such a huge network - finally something is getting big enough to really take on capitalism/neo-liberalism.

To get involved with the Irish Social Forum or learn more about it, below are the contact details:-

Web: http://www.irishsocialforum.org/

Contact: Barry finnegan (interim convenor)
E-Mail: john.finnegan3@mail.dcu.ie
Phone: 01-8741223.
Voicemial/Text: 085-7333044

SnailMail: Irish Social Forum,
"Cultivate Centre"
15-19 Essex St. West
Old City,
Temple Bar,

Re: Jim Monaghan

Great to hear your mature, thoughful comments again Jim, which I thought were excellent (on the previous thread of this "debate" on:-

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60460&PHPSESSID=0dbbaebef5d36dce819b20be2c0b6baa

I particularly liked and share your opinion:-

"While this is about election as well as other activities it should leave room for an alliance with the WSM and GNAW where agreement is possible."

Though this might be entering into the realms of dreamland thinking that this might happen - I think that, at least, some loose organized connection with one another, should be possible I think it would very much be in the interests of both Irish socialism and anarchism. Both groups are so involved with one another on the ground. i.e. they attend all the same demo's, marches, websites & pubs!, etc. etc.

For both groups to assist one another in a more formalized way - its not rocket science to think how both groups would benefit.

As much as I hate many of the results of capitalism - I share Marx's respect & appreciation of many of the things it has achieved. How it has come to be so powerful, I believe, is well worth examining and copying (so long as the results are the complete opposite). You only have to look at big business's & corporations and see how they merge with one another to become bigger and stonger. The power of these corporations is something that we are all trying to take down - but their power is so huge, we are as of yet, only scratching at the surface. Look at how they have merged & formed alliances. Copy it I say.

How do you think our no. 1 nemesis, the United States of America, came to be so powerful? Does the word "United" give you a clue? Europe learnt that it had to copy this model to become as powerful, and so it is doing.

If we all remain split & divided from one another, we don't have a hope.

Peace.

by john throne - labors militant voice Sat Jul 19, 2003 03:08 loughfinn at aol dot com

Building a united front. Response to the SWP letter.
by john throne - loughfinn@aol.com


I think that the proposal from the SWP reflects the pressure that exists on left and activist groups to try and deal with the issue of disunity when the needs of the working class demand the greatest possible unity in struggle. However while welcoming the SWP call there are good reasons to doubt that the SWP would approach this issue in a way that, would in fact take this struggle forward. While I see the SWP proposal speaks about working together in the unions it is hard for me to see how the SWP proposal would not atrophy in the same way as the Socialist Alliance has done in England and Wales. I believe that the lessons of the Socialist Alliance are that unless such a united front has real roots in the day to day struggles and conducts itself in these struggles in a direct action fight to win approach and gains new activists from these struggles then such an alliance will not grow. It cannot grow if it starts basically as an electoral alliance such as seems to me to be the main emphasis of the SWP in this proposal.

I believe that we have to start from the needs of the working class in the most basic areas of day to day life, the effects of the capitalist offensive on the day to day lives of the working class. The effects of the cuts in the direct and social wage, the destruction of the environment, the attacks on working peoples rights. I believe that the direct action methods that were used in the water charges campaign etc should be applied in these struggles and that around such battles a major campaign should be made to bring together all anti capitalists in locally based action committees. That groups and individuals involved in such work should continually appeal for such unity and also and very importantly explain to the working class that it wants this unity and explain to the working class that there are many activists groups and individuals who stand against this unity. In other words place this issue in front of the working class and make all groups and activists defend their position in front of the working class who are involved in and watching these struggles. It will only be the pressure of the working class that will make a real fighting united front work, that will be able to cut across the sectarianism that exists.

Therefore I believe that the priority is to seek to work together on the ground in the battles on hospitals, on bin charges, on housing, on wages etc etc. using direct action fight to win tactics. The importance of the issue of tactics to me is that the only way the left activists will regain real roots in the working class is if they show that they have tactics and a policy that can begin to halt and throw back the day to day attacks of capitalism. In this period after the collapse of stalinism and the crisis on the left the working class are extremely sceptical of all groups that seek to offer an alternative, that is the disconnect between the working class and the revolutionary movement is very great. The direct action fight to win tactics are therefore an esesential part of this approach. From such an approach as we establish roots in the working class then a real united front in action can be built, not just between a few left groups and individuals but involving all anti capitalist forces but most importantly of all involving the layers of working class people who are prepared to take up a struggle. Unless these new fresh layers of working class people are being drawn into the united front and not just asked to vote for some agreed candidate then the united front will not develop, the sectarianism will prove to be too big an obstacle.

Simultaneously with fighting on the ground in this manner the fight should be waged for the idea through monthly meetings, debates, fora, etc for all anti capitalist forces to come together in these united front anti capitalist action committees. I believe that it is better to deveop these along explicitly anti capitalist lines rather than socialist lines as this allows for the largest possible mobilization of activists and working class people while at the same time identifying the source of the problems and raising the consciousness in general to the task that faces us. Then with such roots being put down in the working class, that is with new working class activists becoming active in these struggles and committees, it would be possible to move forward to a more developed unity and fight against capitalism. From this point of view the idea of uniting in the struggle to defend public servives in the North for example seems to be a place where all anti capitalist forces should unite and work together and seek to prove to each other and working class people that they can do so. The SP idea of supporting DPS candidates seems to me to have a lot of merit over that of running united socialist candidates in elections.

I do not know whether the struggle on this issue of defense of the public services is raising the need for direct action fight to win tactics. I do not know if it is raising, not in an ultimatist manner, but nevertheless persistently raising, that the source of the problem is the capitalist offensive and the need to fight this and to fight capitalism. I believe that these issues should be raised and that in this way an anti capitalist united front taking on in a serious way the capitalist offensive could be built. I also believe that left groups such as the SP which are correctly giving as lot of emphasis to these struggles should use this base in a way that would help build the anti capitalist united front. That is instead of just saying they are the only group that is properly involving itself etc., and so join the SP, that it should be raising that it wants all left and anti capitalist groups and individuals to join in the campaign and build a permanent anti capitalist united front. And that this issue should be continually put in front of the working class. To be blunt that the base that is being built in the working class should be used to pressure the left activists and groups to overcome sectarianism. Of course the SP as with other groups should recruit and build its own organization but this should be done in the context of the needs of the working class and the need for the greatest possible mobilization against the capitalist offensive.

I believe also that the building of such a movement should be on an anti capitalist basis at this time. This new movement that has seen tens of millions organizing and demonstrating against capitalist globalization and its offensive, that we saw when the 30 million marched against the invasion of Iraq in Febuary should be assisted on developing in an explicitly anti capitalist basis. This means building on an anti capitalist basis in the localities also, in the neighbourhoods, the workplaces, the schools and colleges, etc. etc. Within this the various revolutionary socialist, the various anarchist groups can organize and build and offer their alternatives but while doing so helping to build an anti capitalist working class movement, helping to build eventually a new anti capitalist working class international.

John Throne
related link: http://laborsmilitantvoice.com
 

by niall Tue Jul 22, 2003 02:33

how many socialists does it take to change a light bulb??


none socialists wont change a fucking thing.

by ab Thu Jul 24, 2003 15:48

So has Ireland Imc just become another front group of the Socialist Workers Party?