Anti Fianna Fail Posters Removed in City

by RED BHOY Fri Oct 17, 2003 18:49

Fair play to you's for highlighting rising costs. Betie has a cheek calling people spongers. But you can quote figures all day,damning Fianna Fail and the PD government.But the fact of the matter is that the electorate in this country are retarded and will go out and vote in the same crooks every time. If they caught Bertie burgling their home they'd still vote for him. If they caught Harney mugging their parents with a syringe they'd still vote her in. The electorate dont have the brainpower to change the system they feel that they're stuck with, so leave them suffer. You should use your brain power to get ahead. Be the big business sponsored government and if the power hasnt got to your head, then change the system that you are the core of. And make the idiots suffer for their laziness and apathy.
I'm always plugging the ragged trousered philanthropists by robert tressel but it explains how these people are brainwashed and its a good read too. Wrote in the early 20th century its as relevent today as it was then.

by Mags Fri Oct 17, 2003 19:02

Is the way these hopeless, self interested, incompetant and - largely - pig ignorant people get to be the government. It is not that the working class are even thicker. It is that priviledge, money and access to higher education provides an inbuilt advantage to even the dimmest offspring of someone who was once a TD, etc. etc.
Yes, many many people do vote like sheep but the situation is improving a bit and community and issues candidates will do well in the upcoming locals, I think. We can only encourage self acivity, etc. at all times - not just elections of course.

I am a fan of the Ragged Trousers Philantrophists myself. Surely if we know how they construct the hegemony we can work out how to break it?

Watched the 'Chavez' film again last night, it was on BBC2. Really inspirational the way the ordinary people of Venezuela overturned the coup. Though not the same issue here it is still interesting that as soon as a working class campaign becomes effective the howling mass of the political establishment and the media start smothering us with guff about 'democracy and law'. As if 'law' and 'justice' were the same things.

by iosaf Sat Oct 18, 2003 13:23

.ie - can people copy it readily if they are lucky/unlucky enough to have access to a PC and printing facilities?
Then it can be shrunk and blown up, used as a sticker, or a poster, every time some FF minion takes down one of those posters, WCA might reflect real communication has occured. Keep it up = keep putting the posters up, it may become a very interesting "game/activity" and leaving an easy to download poster somewhere else can help other people play the game as well. I seem to remember north Cork is very difficult to poster as well at times.

by Anonymous Sat Oct 18, 2003 15:13

My answer Mags is simply "money". This is how they get in and what keeps them in. I am using money here in the broadest sense possible - covering such areas as education, media and human greed & selfishness.

by sp member (personal capacity) Sat Oct 18, 2003 15:48

It is a good thing that these posters are taken down, with any luck it means that they have got right on the nerves of FF and they have gone in to a frenzy about them.
As someone who has put a few socialist Party posters up in my time it has always been a source of encouragement to me when they are effective enough to irritate the other side.

Well done WCA

by Oh Please Sat Oct 18, 2003 20:37

Of course they were taken down, it is illegal to flypost! They were removed by council workers not FF!!

by Fianna Failer AND PROUD of it - Fianna Fail Mon Oct 20, 2003 22:05 Mount Street, Dublin 2

Any poster which dare criticise our DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government led by our most successful Taoiseach An Taoiseach Bertie Ahern; and our most successful Tanaiste An Tanaiste Mary Harney, especially those which encourage sedition and treason such as those reprehensible poster from the NONworking class action will be removed. End of story

by random input Tue Oct 21, 2003 01:37

it wasn't fly postering, that involves wallpaper paste.

by Mags Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:42

They were not removed by the council. There were lots of other anti-bin tax posters which remained up - the general ones from the campaign - in the same area. It was the anti-FF WCA ones which were targeted.

I am looking into getting a .pdf version uploaded and people are welcome to use it.

by Wolfy Tony Tue Oct 21, 2003 13:56

The Fianna Failer above is certainly getting his/her undergarments in twist. A number of interesting topics are touched on in the short rant provided.

1) Criticism of the Glorious Leader amounts to treason and sedition! Under what statute? What is the sentence for this heinous crime? I just ask for fear that anyone else might make a similar error and find themselves swinging from a gibbet.

Of course it could be merely that FF have been in office for far too long and are guilty of confusing their party and leader with being the actual nation and people of Ireland. As far as I am aware FF do not even represent 50% of the people of Ireland.

2) 'Our Tanaiste, Mary Harney'. Is he trying to tell us something here? Is Harney back in Fianna Fail? Would explain a few things all right.

3) So we can take this as an official admission from FF that they took down the posters, so?

by matt Tue Oct 21, 2003 14:23

Fianna Fáil obviously regard the WCA as the major threat to them remaining in power and have unleashed the full power of the state, just as predicted by some anarchist who reckons that a Sunday Tribune article is the prelude for some kind of police state crackdown on the anti-bin campaign!! ....and not forgetting Kevin McLoughlin of the SP who beleives that we are witnessing the greatest crackdown on the working class in living memory. Easy to see who wasn't part of the anti-drugs movement; hunger strike; or bore the brunt of the heavy gang and decades of imprisonment and branch harassment and censorship. Not to mention all those other strikes and struggles in which the trots were like little kids with their noses pressed against the window wondering what was going on. Grow up and maybe you might save this campaign ending in farce.

by pat c Tue Oct 21, 2003 14:35

whatever are you on about???? if you knew anything about wca then you would be aware of their socialist republican politics.

those members of the wsm who were around at the time were involved in the smash hblock/armagh campaign as i was myself.

you are caricaturing some of the wrong people here.

by Mags - WCA Tue Oct 21, 2003 14:42

Matt

I think you have been getting the wrong end of the stick here, either deliberately or otherwise.

WCA are not anarchist and not SP, so whatever those sections think is their own business, not ours. Some of them have been getting a tad over excited all right.

It is not clear if you are claiming that WCA (who you seem to lump in with the leftie factions) were not involved in the anti-drugs campaign, Republican politics, etc. Most of us were and some go back to the hunger strike and political status campaign. Maybe you should go and ask a grown up in Sinn Féin? Republicans can and do exist outside of the party you support.

So WCA are ‘posers’ for opposing Fianna Fail. Interesting line that.

by matt Tue Oct 21, 2003 14:49

oh i know exactly what kind of republicans you are, don't worry..... and your former comrades in British RA and AFA knew what you were as well

by pat c Tue Oct 21, 2003 14:58

as a non member of wca i can state that wca members are active in afa, so i dont know what your comments about former comrades could mean.

unless you mean English afa. Are you suggesting that Irish afa should be subordinate to the "mainland" branch?

who are you really and whose agenda are you advancing in your attempt to divide the campaign?

by bin campaigner Tue Oct 21, 2003 15:00

The question has come up time and time again, why are the masses so passive and apathetic. Why do they continue voting for all these useless political parties.

Well, you won't get the full answer, but you will certainly get a big piece of it if you read over this article by John Gatto titled: Against School.

John Gatto, retired now was a teacher for over 30 years in the USA. He even got Teacher of the Year award a few times.

He has written numerous articles and extensively researched the history behind how compulsory schooling came into being. It's certainly not the Disneyland version we get, which claims it was the result of a long process of progress. Gatto shows how the key people, many who were the leading industrialists of the time, well well aware of it's use for social engineering and control of the minds of the masses. To dumb them down.

For example in http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm he says:

Mass schooling of a compulsory nature really got its teeth into the United States between 1905 and 1915, though it was conceived of much earlier and pushed for throughout most of the nineteenth century. The reason given for this enormous upheaval of family life and cultural traditions was, roughly speaking, threefold:

1) To make good people. 2) To make good citizens. 3) To make each person his or her personal best. These goals are still trotted out today on a regular basis, and most of us accept them in one form or another as a decent definition of public education's mission, however short schools actually fall in achieving them. But we are dead wrong. Compounding our error is the fact that the national literature holds numerous and surprisingly consistent statements of compulsory schooling's true purpose. We have, for example, the great H. L. Mencken, who wrote in The American Mercury for April 1924 that the aim of public education is not

to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence. ... Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim ... is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States... and that is its aim everywhere else.

And just in case you think the USA experience doesn't apply here in Ireland, consider this. Carnegie, who was one of the wealthiest people in the USA at the time, poured huge money into education (to control and set the agenda). He also put a lot of money into education in Ireland. This explains why you see the name 'Carnegie' over the doorway of practically every library in Ireland.

All of this dumbing down the masses so that they can't think has huge and direct relevance today.

by Baldy Tue Oct 21, 2003 15:16

Matt,
Come out from behind the innuendo. Have the confidence in your own argument to stand over it. Fill us in on 'our' background! I take it from your reference to 'british' RA/AFA that you are among the recent influx to SF. Handy, now the war is over. Of particular interest to me is your own personal involvement in the anti drugs campaign, or are you one of the many bullshitters to would like to claim some glory but didn't have the balls for it? If my suspicions are correct, the likes of you denigrate the role played by members of your own party. Anyway, you can use this opportunity to hype up your own activities, bravery etc.. like most keyboard warriors.

by matt Tue Oct 21, 2003 15:36

Have been politically active for 25 years, including the war, and that's not bullshit or loose talk as I got done for it. As for anti-drugs, again, been there done that and been at the wrong end of a few hidings from the scum. And I do know the history of you lot and AFA. Have height of respect for British AFA and IWCA and proud to have been on the Holloway High Road with them once or twice, fighting real fascists as opposed to the make beleive ones you conned them into beleiving existed in Dublin.

by Tabloid Journo Tue Oct 21, 2003 16:00

And everybody else is pathetic!!! Wow, that's a new one from Matt, oh wait....I just realised that is in fact the content of every single one of his comments on indymedia!

Get a new tune matt, you sound like a North Korean communist party member talking about the glorious party. If you were a socialist (rather than a republican) you'd be a spart - now that is pathetic.

by pat c Tue Oct 21, 2003 16:04

it is obvious that you know nothing about the anti bin tax campaign in dublin or the forces involved in it.

from your dumb remarks its also obvious that you know nothing about irish afa.

maybe you are a genuine republican, if so its a pity that you spout nonsense which is only of benefit to the irish & british ruling classes.

by Baldy Tue Oct 21, 2003 16:22

Politically active for 25 years...in the Republican struggle?
Anti drugs..."been at the wrong end of a few hidings from the scum"!!!! The pushers were never up to fronting us, I don't remember any of the activists getting a hiding from the 'scum'.
AFA... There wouldn't have been many shinners on the Holloway Road with AFA...another porky?
Conned!!...obviously you're not from Dublin 'cos if you were you'd know about the fash scene before we smashed it. If you read the AFA mag 'No Quarter' you'll see a review of our history and this can be verified by even those who don't agree with us. Don't believe all your 'leaders' tell you!!!

by matt Tue Oct 21, 2003 16:50

What Dublin 'fash scene'! And you don't know anyone ever attacked by pushers!! And of course you never told AFA in London that you were organising "anti-fascist patrols" !!!, and your "organisation" wasn't stood down by AFA because you made a show of yourselves when drunk in Belfast ???. And as for the Holloway Road, I sat beside one of you in a pub there while you spun a load of crap about your activities in Dublin fighting fascists and pushers and why the INLA were the real thing. Still cringe at that! And never said I was a "shinner"!! but then don't suppose the real AFA people like Nick Mullen and others who were in THE WAR ever trusted the likes of you to let you know anything...

by Baldy Tue Oct 21, 2003 17:06

"anti-fascist patrols"?!!! What the fuck are you talking about????
My 'organisation' stood down by London AFA? That's news to me! You love the aul' military terms don't you - 'stood down'!! A real sign of a ceasefire soldier!!
"INLA were the real thing"!!! ha ha, as a anti drug activist I won't bother replying to that.
Sorry, don't know who 'Nick Mullen' is.
Getting a bit touchy aren't we? Maybe some of my comments are a little too close the bone for you!
Maybe you should continue to spin your yarns for a couple of the young shinners, they might believe you!!
By the way, you never answered my question about your 25 years of political activity. Was it Republican activity?
Normally I don’t bother with lefty sites like Indymedia but this is great crack!!!!!!!

by matt Tue Oct 21, 2003 17:22

Few facts: A leading member of Dublin AFA in 1997 told AFA in London that they were (a) organising anti-fascist patrols, (b) the main force in the Dublin anti-drugs movement, specifically in Cabra (ring any bells???), and (c) that the INLA were the people to take on the pushers. That infatuation with non-IRA 'republicans' is obviously continuing given the WCA's flirtation with the dissidents.

And I stand by my claim that Dublin AFA was cut off, or whatever term you want, by the British organsiation because of the behaviour of its members in Belfast at a function.

Yes, all my political activity has been as a republican.

Nick Mullen was British RA/AFA member who was imprisoned for his part in the war in England as an IRA Volunteer.

by Baldy Tue Oct 21, 2003 17:56

A few facts?? Because you say so doesn't make it a fact. The idea of "anti fascist patrols" just doesn't make any sense. Were the patrols there in case nazi germany attacked again?
If you feel the need to lie please make them believable!!
The main force in the anti drugs movement!!! Not even SF claimed that they were the 'main force'. There was no main force in the anti drugs movement, ordinary working class people were the power behind the movement.
"the INLA were the people to take on the pushers"
As I've said, as an anti drug activist I won't even bother commenting.
I wouldn't have known Nick Mullen personally 'cos he was active in England. What is your point? By the way, what organisation did Nick get sent down for? I only know 2 members of RA/AFA who did time for fighting the brits, one for the IRA and the other for the INLA.
Speaking of people we know, do you remember a chap who used to run around as a gofer for the main bods in AFA. His background was as a member of the anti republican organisation Militant and he was a Rangers supporter. In an effort to please his new masters he took up the Republican cause (post ceasefire) with a vengeance and even began to support Celtic. I wonder what ever happened to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh it's a grand old team to play for.......!!!!

by Mags - WCA Tue Oct 21, 2003 18:06

Sorry to interupt this interesting discussion.

Some people have asked for a .pdf of the 'Fianna Fail are Criminals, Drink Driver and Tax Cheats' poster.

The poster can be downloaded as an A4 .PDF from this link

http://www.geocities.com/wcaireland/index2.html

by warbaby Thu Oct 23, 2003 19:28

matt, if i may call you that as it is probably your "nome de guerre",you being a military man. so you were a sleeper in england, so good in fact you were probably in a coma.known to the brits as pratt zero zero, kilburn a s u.
you were that active it is rumoured that you provided the sugar cubes for the shergar job, that you placed leaves strategically on the railway lines in england to cause chaos,invented the wet tea bag bomb before anyone though of the coffee jar type as well as almost bringing england to its knees by leaving old copies of an phoblacht on buses throughout london.
enough said comrade. at ease soldier, your war is over.
me, i spent the war on anti-fash patrols. meself, captain mainwaring , private pike and corporal jones were ready to repel gerry at any time. ireland was safe in our hands.
on the drugs issue, propositionng a strung out rent boy and getting a slap for it does not constitute a smaking from drug dealing scum.
As for london Ra, the shinners and prisoners wouldn't touch em with a barge pole.
finally fishknife, wolfe tone spoke of uniting catholics, protestants and dissenters. as i refuse to subscibe to church nonsense, i , like Tone, remain a dissenter.
upon reading this message, destroy all evidence.
walls have ears, loose lips sinks ships etc..

by matt Fri Oct 24, 2003 15:08

Real name and real facts. As a former republican prisoner - which I guess makes me sort of known to the enemy - I can assure you that we had more respect for the people you refer to in Britain than for idiots like you who were running around Dublin playing Citizen Smith. You talked the talk alright. So why didn't you and your joke comrades actually join the RA or the INLA, if that was your preference, rather than engage in the ridiculous pretence of anti-fascist patrols and running around after the CPAD. And we didn't trust you, and we still don't trust you as you always seem to be exactly where the Branch and Brits would want to place semi-plausible lefties who get off on other people using guns. Ooops!, I hope no-one from the RIRA is reading this.

by writer & "pipe" musician Fri Oct 24, 2003 17:50

and for the moment you don't know who I am Matt.
But I lived in London and read An Phoblacht. And I found it regularly on the bus through Brixton left behind and sightly soggy. And I spent two days behind a steel door off Dorset Street because CPAD could not sleep through a rave party I organised to protest against the rackrenting by a republican landlord against his tenants.
And I oh so often thought that the Brits and the Branch did the job of the "real enemy" by always ensuring that "ye" were always where like the 'Ra would be. I like what you say it is passionate, possibly true, but it is "emotive", because only the Branch and the Brits know who you are in this space. And the CIA and the NSA and all the other ghoulies. We are here with the ghoulies Matt tell me what did O'Neill say last weekend?
How do you as former "republican prisoner" for whom I wore a green ribbon in both Dublin and London yet never ever ever did I attend one of your cumann meetings, for truth is, I might have then sat down behind one of the CPAD who quite succinctly said "When you get out we'll smash your westbrit face in". Oh but now, the accents are varied no? Bearing grudges is weird isn't it?
There you are pissed off because people _activated_ in different ways to _your_ comrades, and all you can think of is how they hindered your campaign. And here am I pissed off because so many of you still don't get it, after all the suffering after all of it: you were as outside as any Trot, with your faces pressed against the Glass. I saw my methodology confused with yours so often, to those I worked with, was ascribed less blood and more financial damage then your campaign. And you know I share filing cabinet space with some of you. And the same ghoulie monsters that hassle you hassle me. But I would never nor will I ever find the "solidarity" of the closed ranks Republicans to console my prejudice or assuage my fear.

and thus we could go on for days.
[this is my first message to you - as far as I know]

so last questions-
if Republicans of the SF Tradition are sincere about building trust with all on the island, when will they make a _serious_ attempt to build trust with the others of the Left in the majority Irish State?
And what did the IRA say last weekend concerning that little matter of the arms decommisioning, like it's "our business" as well isn't it?

by wearybaby Fri Oct 24, 2003 20:28

so yer an ex pow. so was o,callaghan and gilmore etc.., .in fact so was goulding et al.
all dem years and only a a british legion...oops....irish legion medal to show..
why didn,t i join de ra...sure robbin' containers and flogging christmas pressies for "de cause" wasn't my cup o' tea. me , i'm an action man.
killing de brits with stickers on the tube was my war service. robbin' de DSS to drain the english economy was a speciality of us irish.
as for chasing cpad. sure won't it get you elected and then you can call them viggies when you meet trimble and our new advisers , the yanks. just don't tell our friends in colombia.

you have me with regard to the branch and brits. you must know me link to them seeing as how you are now working with them for " a new ireland".
here's our gear and thanks for the new psni uniform. it fits me nicely.off to do some community restorative justice now, after all you cant have the brits thinking we raised a new generation of rebels.

you united ireland alright...yea...with the rest of britian.

by ipsiphi-watcher Fri Oct 24, 2003 20:40

Sounds like ipsphi-o'asif-mcdiarmada on a roll ....
Must have been a good season for the magic mushrooms down in Barcelona ......