Murphy AWOL as SDCC Pass Estimates

by Yes Voting leftie - You know who i am Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:39

Ha Ha - I know I am not meant to laugh when the far left makes a dogs dinner of their supposed principled positions but this time I do. Surely having failed ( again) in their role as Public Representatives the only honourable thing for the SP on SDCC is to resign. will they - not a chance. HA Ha Ha

by ABTC Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:13

Are you laughing at the waiver going in Cork City? Will you laugh when it goes in Dublin City? Everything the bin tax campaigners have said so far, has come to pass.
Keep laughing Dermo - it won't be forgotten!!

by Dublin Exile Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:53

Couldn't have said it better myself. In Liberty Hall in 1987 i remember Mick Murphy saying the revolution was only 6 months away! Every time I hear his name mentioned i have a good laugh!

by Sceptic Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:00

Can we now expect Sin Fein to actually put some effort into building the anti bin tax campaign on the ground? It's easy enough to vote against the estimates when you know that the FF, FG and Labour councillors have enough votes to get anything they want passed. I wouldn't hold my breath given that the Shinners refused to have a written record taken of all the councillors that voted for and against the estimates on Dublin City Council. This is a pity because it would have really shown up the disgraceful role of the "labour" party councillors on the issue.

by Very Skeptic Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:18

Will the SP ever get a life? They have spent the last couple of weeks insinuating that SF either voted for or abstained on the estimates in DCC. No one who was in the chamber claims this. Joan Collins doesnt and none of the press make any such claims.

All of the SF Councillors, all 10 of them voted against. A large SF contingent was outside protesting. Please, enough of your roll call red herrings.

The fact is however that Mick Murphy of the SP didnt even bother to turn up for the vote on SDCC. Now instead of churning out more nonsense, would the SP please tell us why Mick Murphy was absent?

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:32

The evidence from last night's South Dublin Council meeting is final proof , if proof were needed that the SP and Mick Murphy are either a joke or the most cynical hypocrite on this and every other issue. The putrid black-propganda that they spew forth about the Shinners can no longer be taken with any seriousness. Murphy's antics stand in stark contrast to the principled stand of the 10 Shinners on Dublin City Council.

by Dusty Bin Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:32

You are right, most sane people do accept that all 10 SF councillors voted against but why not explain what happened in the 15 minute recess before the vote. The role call issue is not a 'red herring', just a further example of SF's pragmatism.
"We can work with anyone - you know".

by Josef K Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:35

Role calls my arse! SF are the only coherent political force in Dublin to adequately and actively fight the bin charges. The SP are now totally exposed. Totally!

by Cheka - NKVD Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:40

The SP should do the decent thing and bow out of electoral politics. They are merely a gimmick outfit. Why are they obsessed with having a go at Sinn Fein, who by the way go from strength to strength because it seems they are the only socialists who can combine effcctive campaigining on the ground with effective representation on the councils.

by Badman Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:41

I can't really imagine the real Makhno describing voting for something that you know is going to be defeated as a "principled stand". It's really no more of a principled stand than, say, buying a pint of stout. There are no negative implications whatsoever and it costs nothing, it is just another little episode in the collaboration of the shinners with capitalism.

"The basis of democracy is the maintenance of the two antagonistic classes of modern society: the working class, and the capitalist class and their collaboration on the basis of private capitalist property. The expression of this collaboration is parliament and the national representative government." - Nestor Makhno

by DB Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:43

On the night of the vote it was touch and go as to whether they would be passed at the first attempt. A selection of FFer, FGers and Lab cllrs intended to vote no. As mentioned SF had a 'principled' postition that all of it's cllr's were going to vote no. The Labour and FG leaders knew it was touch and go. They called a time out before the vote. SF got into the huddle and it was agreed that a roll call would not facilitated. This meant that all SF cllr's could vote against and then there would be confusion as to which cllr's did really vote against.

From a purely simple political viewpoint it would be to SF's advantage to have a roll call called because they could have gone back to certain constituencies and exposed the Labour Party as sell outs to working class communities. But you can't do that when you are attempting to show people how pragmatic you are.

by Cheka Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:44

Hey Sceptic, what is your problem? You mangae to turn a principled stand by SF into a reason to have a go at them. Would you get a grip. By the way, its not the job of SF to run around saving every campaign on the face of the earth! they are in the anti-bin tax campaign but they are not the pnly ones. Go ask someone else to wipe your arse!

by pat c Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:48

I am sure that MM has a reasonable excuse for being absent from the vote. An excuse that would be acceptable to reasonable people.

However in the past the SP have set the bar very high for what is seen as acceptable.
In the past Councillors missed votes due to:

1. Being ill.
2. Attending an AA conference.
3. Being on a honeymoon.

The SP did not find any of these excuses acceptable. Its difficult to see how MM could tender any excuse that would meet the high standards set by the SP.

by observer Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:50

What a joke. He and the SP spent the last three years building all sorts of nonsensical theories over the legitimate absence of two SF Councillors from a DCC meeting. In the past week they have been spinning further lies over the Estimates vote on DCC - by claiming that either all SF Councillors didn't vote or that SF had some wierd reason for not calling a roll call vote.

Now. Their Councillor on SDCC does not even bother his arse turning up for the most important vote of the entire year. Why not? We are entitled to ask. Has he been got to, again?

by Angry Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:51

Cut out the nonsense. SF voted against the estimates. Thats it end of story.

Deal with real story. Murphy was AWOL. Why? Will the SP please deal with this?

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:52

Are you the world's leading authority on Nestor Maknho or something? Get a grip Badman! Nestor Makhno was a realist and dealt with the objective conditions in the Ukraine at a particular time. Do you speak for the dead? As far as I can see the Shinners in Dublin have been principled and consistent on this issue from the beginning. They have stood firm against the Bin Charges on the streets and in the Council Chambers. A roll calll would not have achieved any thing substantial in My view.

by Curious Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:56

"They have stood firm against the Bin Charges on the streets and in the Council Chambers."

With the exception of Dessie Ellis, name one other councillor who has stood firm on the streets?

by Still a Yes Voting leftie Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:59

Keep on fighting ( each other) lads. At least it keeps you away from destroying genuine working class causes

by Cheka Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:59

Here, here. The SP stand accused. They tried to crucify the Shinners over the legitimate absence of two of their councillors at a vote on DCC ages ago. They never let up on that one. They are like the emperor with no clothes. They make me sick. We are still waiting for them to answer for Murphy's behaviour . If no answer is forthcoming we can assume he was got at!

by Josef K Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:01

What are you on about?It is the SP who have been fighting genuine socialists on this for the past number of years. They attacked SF time and again rather than focussing on unity. So get the facts right!

by DB Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:02

Care to tell us what was hammered out in the fifteen minutes before the vote?
In the name of democracy and all that.

by Makno Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:03

Daithi Doolan

by Pat Breen Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:08

Councillor DaithinDoolan has been to the forefront of the anti-bin tax campaign. He is also a leading SF member. So there is at least one other. Seeing as you asked.

by Pat Breen Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:09

Sorry for my spelling Curious. That should have read Councillor Daithi Doolan.

by Muso Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:11

2 out of ten ain't bad?

by Badman Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:12

No, 'makhno', I do not speak for the dead. That is why I quoted Makhno. I let the man speak for himself. It is quite clear that Makhno considered taking part in bourgeois parliaments to be 'collaboration' with capitalism. Ergo, he would have considered the shinners not as 'principled' but as collaborators. You don't have to be the world authority on Makhno to figure this out, you just need to have the slightest clue of what the man was about

If you want to use the handle of the man, don't complain when his words are used against you.

Here's another quote about socialists who take the 'state' route. This one from the 'organisational platform of libertarian communists', co-authored by makhno:

"The left socialists, and in particular the bolsheviks, also consider the bourgeois State and Authority to be the servants of capital. But they hold that Authority and the State can become, in the hands of socialist parties, a powerful weapon in the struggle for the emancipation of the proletariat. For this reason these parties are for a socialist Authority and a proletarian State. Some want to conquer power by peaceful, parliamentarian means (the social democratic), others by revolutionary means (the bolsheviks, the left social revolutionaries).

Anarchism considers these two to be fundamentally wrong, disastrous in the work of the emancipation of labour."

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:22

Yaawn, Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, Yaaaaaaaaaawn. Badman You are trying to speak for the dead whatever way you put! Its a pointless and boring exercise. I have respect for the memory of Nestor Makhno but as I said he was dealing with the objective conditions pertaining in Ukraine at a partiucular time in history. This is all a distractinn from the debate on this thread whicjh I am sure none of the other constributors are intested in.

by Pat Breen Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:26

Councillor Tony Smithers (SF), Councillor Robert Sargent (SF), Councillor Andrew O'Connell (SF). All voted, picketed and marched against the bin charges. I s'pose ur another pseudo leftie who'd rather attack SF than fight real battles Muso? Get a life or get some politics!

by pat c Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:33

Look this thread is about the abscence of SP member and Councillor Mick Murphy from a vote at SDCC. No amount of diversion is going to get away from that.

The attempts by anonymous SP members to derail the thread is just bringing the SP into further disrepute.

Why not just explain why MM was absent.

by Badman Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:39

"Badman You are trying to speak for the dead whatever way you put! Its a pointless and boring exercise. "

Look who's talking mate. I don't go around posting under the name of dead anarchists. I especially don't go around posting class colaborationist shite in the name of honest revolutionaries. If you want me to stop boring you, stop dragging makhno's name into debates in the dung heap of parliament.

This whole debate has nothing to do with the bin tax. All the parties concerned acknowledge privately that it is defeated. It is just petty sectarian point scoring and it would not be out of place in a primary school playground.

by Badman Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:43

"he was dealing with the objective conditions pertaining in Ukraine at a partiucular time in history."

No he wasn't. The second quote is from the platform, written in 1927 as a general theory of anarchist organisation. It was very decidely a general exposition of timeless political principles, not connected with objective conditions in any particular country.

If you don't want me to keep on boring you, choose a more honest handle.

by pat c Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:43

i dont think badman is an SPer. his points about makhno were reasonable, but no one owns the makhno name. still it is OT.

by Dublin Exile Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:44

My theory for what its worth:
1. having been elected MM suddenly realises that sloganeering will get him nowhere in the council chamber
2. He is either incapable or unable to get involved in the horsetrading that being an elected councillor requires
3. The people who elected him will soon be wondering why the revolution has not happened
4. Rather than getting stuck into the nitty gritty of using his position to improve the lot of real people, he abandons his post - in a 'principled and marxist fashion of course'!
5. He is now in hiding from his electorate and of course his comrades, who now realise a bit of 're-education' might be in order- Anyone got Ruth Coppingers number?

by >>>>> Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:48

This is a joke, please someone tell me so. First Joan Collins and her mess in DCC and now this!!!

by observer Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:55

Badman you're priceless!! Did you fall out of a Citizen Smith dvd or what? Let's face it, the SP are a joke. Incompetent, arrogant, sectarian, .... shall I go on?

As the Scottish socialist Maxton said to Ramsay MacDonald "Sit down man, your're a bloody tragedy"

by Obs Fri Dec 17, 2004 16:42

I don't believe that even one SP member has posted on this thread.

by Cynic Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:04

I doubt if you believe that. C'mon you are not even fooling yourself. What we are witnessing here is typical SP behaviour: divert attention from the real story at any cost.

by observer Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:06

They are huddled like dormice waiting for the Central Committe to issue an edict. This must indeed be a crisis because normally the line would have been decided by now and the minions would be pressing those keys. Interesting. I hope this does not turn out like those people in California who were waiting to be picked up by the mothership from the comet. So please, someone think of the children. Will someone PLEASE think of the children.

by DB Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:09

"I s'pose ur another pseudo leftie who'd rather attack SF than fight real battles Muso?"

Did you learn to speak like that when SF were huddled with 'still a yes voting leftie's' gang making sure the charges weren't defeated. The cllr would be proud.

by Cynic Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:13

Cut out the nonsense. We just want to know why Murphy went AWOL. The SP will not get away with red herrings.

by Santy Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:15

For 10 points, name the DCC SF councillors who rushed out and availed of the waiver scheme, 5 bonus points, name the DCC SF councillors who rushed out and paid the bin charge.

by Cynic Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:18

Why not tell us where SP member Murphy was? You get bonus points for that.

by observer Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:27

This has cheered me up no end. Nothing like seeing a gang of chancers getting their comeuppance.

"But what about the 10 SF councillors who voted to eat babies from the flats"

by pat c Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:33

10 + 3 = 13! a coven! the DCC & SDCC SF councillors perform satanic rites together!

by Libby Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:45

For all the SF invective not one denial that they didn't get into a huddle with the Labour Party before the vote in Dublin City.
I'm prepared to agree that MM's non-appearance is pathetic in light of the SP's 'follow the leader' style way of campaigning but no less sad than being against the bin charges but doing deals just before the vote.
There is no way that the roll call is a red herring but then I wouldn't expect people who practice a la carte democracy to understand this.

by Cheka Fri Dec 17, 2004 18:45

I have just met a senior member of Sinn Fein in Dublin who is categorical about the fact that Sinn Fein was not involved in anny huddle at the DCC meeting. So stop diverting the Mick Murphy issue! If you want this clarified ring Sinn Fein's Dublin office.

by Still A Yes Voting and attending leftie Cllr Fri Dec 17, 2004 19:10

Yeah lads and lassies of the revolution - if you seek elective office (and probably even collect the expenses - nothing wrong with that in my opinion) you do actually have a bit of a duty to turn up and cast your vote particularly if you adopt the sort of high moral ground that the SP, SWP,SF and all the others claim. Though I attended the City Council when the Estimates vote took place I am not aware of any secret huddle involving Labour as excellenty led by Kevin Humphreys and SF.

Anyway this one keeps me laughing all the way to the nearest recycling centre. Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Dan Fri Dec 17, 2004 20:49

"Anyway this one keeps me laughing all the way to the nearest recycling centre. Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Given the deranged tone of your posts on this thread, I'd urge you to seek professional help. Anyone who uses more than three exclamation marks in a row is clearly not right in the head.

by a sf councillor Sat Dec 18, 2004 00:08

so where was he then, after years of the silly SP attacking SF about half of SF not turning up once for an estimates vote now we have all of the SP not turning up 100% of the time on the estimates. and after being elected on this very issue.

methinks there is a shift on on the SP to move on from the bin charges - whats the bet that they claim he did not attend as a form of protest to the county managers powers.

odds anyone?

by observer Sat Dec 18, 2004 18:26

Fact, as the man from the Lucozade Sport ad might say.

by Sharon O'S. - Individual. Sun Dec 19, 2004 16:26 Clondalkin , D 22.

A Provo Councillor in Tallaght , Mark Daly , has not only paid his double bin-tax but was actually quoted in the local newspaper ( 'Tallaght Echo') as advising other's to pay it , too ! And did'nt Provo SF Lord Mayor in Sligo get that position due to a deal done with FF/FG over supporting the estimates in that County ? I am not an SP (or PSF) supporter or voter , before I get jumped on here for being one or the other , but both of those parties seem to say one thing and do another - I presume it goes with the territory of being a 'suit' ie elected rep !
During the recent local elections , I was canvessed on the doorstep by a very nice woman , looking for my vote for a Mr Shane O'Connor (Provo SF) ; I asked about the Mark Daly situation , and was told - " Well , the bin tax issue is a lost cause . We have to move on ... " ! I myself have not paid this double-tax ( despite being the owner of two 'red-ink' County Council letters re same !) and will not pay it , either . But I remain very cynical regarding promises from local (or LH) politicians , regardless of which party they are affiliated to .
Sharon ,
Clondalkin,
Dublin 22 .

by Cynic Sun Dec 19, 2004 20:01

I dont believe that you are independent. If you were then you would not be tring to divert attention from Murphy going AWOL.

Where was Murphy, is he still missing?

by Sharon O'S . - Individual. Sun Dec 19, 2004 22:54 Clondalkin , D 22.

Hello again , ' Cynic ' !

I am not an SP member or supporter - I was simply attempting to point out that the Provos , Labour , FF etc - INCLUDING the SP (ok ?) - are all 'two-faced' on this issue .

How can I make it any clearer to you that that was my intention - I don't understand how you could have read anything else into what I wrote .
Sharon .

by Tony Mon Dec 20, 2004 01:36

"This whole debate has nothing to do with the bin tax. All the parties concerned acknowledge privately that it is defeated. It is just petty sectarian point scoring and it would not be out of place in a primary school playground"
Badman, all what concerned parties? I don't think Joan Collins or any of the others still fighting the bin tax battle think it is a lost cause. The campaign has just won a hugely significant victory in the courts and DCC have admitted they cannot implement non-collection until next May at the earliest. I think it's only the pretend activists like yourself who have given up on the fight, if you were ever involved in the first place.

by zozimus Mon Dec 20, 2004 09:45

Where oh where, is our Mick Murphy,
Where oh where, is that gallant man?
He has gone to organise the MIJAG,
That young drivers might yet be free.

Then who then who, will drive the van,
Then who will drive the C & C van?
Who but our Mick Murphy,
The hero of the soft drinks industry.

Who will vote against the Estimates,
Who will vote against the Estimates?
Not our Mick Murphy,
'Cos it's overtime in the soft drinks trade.

They carried him up to the pub,
With non-union drivers on every side,
And they had a mighty session,
The evening of the Estimates.

by Dublin Exile Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:33

Well Done Zozimus,
glad to see the tradition lives on!
Happy Christmas

by Paul Murphy - Socialist Party Mon Dec 20, 2004 14:19 p_k_murphy at hotmail dot com

Unfortunately, Mick did miss the vote on the Estimates last Thursday. He arrived from work to the meeting, due to start at 6pm, at 6.17 to find that the three necessary votes had already been taken, meaning that he and other Councillors who arrived slightly late didn’t have the opportunity to vote. What better illustration is there of the absence of democratic debate on such an important issue that the vote was pushed through with such haste! He subsequently made a statement at the Council explaining why he was late and recording his opposition to the Estimates.

There can be no question about Mick’s integrity as the Councillor on South Dublin County Council with the best record of fighting the bin tax and double taxation in general. Mick led the Campaign Against the Water Charges and the Anti-Bin Tax Campaign in South Dublin and was jailed for three weeks for fighting against this unjust tax. During the debate on the bin tax part of the Estimates at a previous Council meeting, Mick was the only Councillor to speak up against this charge. He challenged the spin that the Council have been putting on figures about recycling and the number of people who paid the bin tax in previous years.

Mick Murphy and the Socialist Party will continue to fight against double taxation on working class people, both inside and outside of the Council chamber. We are committed to building a movement of working class people to defeat double taxation.

by observer Mon Dec 20, 2004 14:26

Rather than anything else. By Jaysus if he'd shown the same tardiness at the steelworks during War Communism he'd have been in trouble!! The only thing he'lll lose now is his seat.

by Indy Council Corr Mon Dec 20, 2004 15:20

Unsurprised to see this thread came to life considering past Bin Tax rows but a couple of points on the various Council meetings and claims and counter-claims.

1. Mick Murphy did arrive at the meeting late, more like half an hour than a quarter but he was present in time to endearingly ask for the vote to be reheld.

2. The post from Paul implies that the Estimates were passed in 17 minutes without debate. The truth is that the meeting was the continuation of the adjourned debate where the Council had gone through the Budget programme by programme in a meeting that took almost four hours.

3. Mick was also late to this meeting by two (One source) and three (Another) (Wasn't present myself) hours depending on who you ask and in fact missed the debate on the environment programme, which included Bin Charges. When he arrived, having completely missed the debate on the Bin Charges, he demanded to know what the position of the parties was to which one Councillor responded by pointing out that if he had bothered to be there on time he'd know.

4. I don't think ANYONE can question the commitment, determination and politics of Mick Murphy. I don't think anyone can deny he is a dedicated activist completely opposed to the Charges. I do think there is a legitimate question about his competence as a councillor.

5. There was no Labour/SF 'huddle' at the City Council meeting before the vote, but the question of why SF did no themselves call for a roll-call stands and has not been answered. They did not refuse to back a call for a roll-call on the Estimates as none was made.

by bins laden Mon Dec 20, 2004 16:10

There is no excuse for not turning up on time for the meeting Mick.
It was the one item on the agenda.It was the only meeting of the year when Councillors could make real decisions. You blew it Mick! Pure and simple.It was your responsibility to represent the people who elected you and to make their views known on the bin charges.
I do not subscribe to the " my dog ate my homework "defense put forward People are judged by their actions Mick and not their rhetoric.
I say this as someone who is not an SP basher and who who feels that the pointscoring antics from the pretend lefties are a bit pathetic. I include Dermot Lacey in this list.
By the way Zozimus's song was excellent


PS the 10 SF councillors should have called for a roll call vote. The fact that they did not shows that coalition building is the watchword of their New Model Army

by Libby Mon Dec 20, 2004 16:41

Well said!

by Cynic Mon Dec 20, 2004 16:41

Why should Mick murphy be subject to a diferent set of rules? If a SF Councilor was even 5 minutes late for a meeting the the UCD Evil Twins would be live on indymedia howling about plots.

What Paul Murphy should tell us is why Mick Murphy was 17 minutes late for one meeting and 2 - 3 hours late for the previous one. Do the SP think this is acceptable behaviour?

by Still A Yes Voting Leftie Mon Dec 20, 2004 18:59

Well Bins Laden I am so sorry that you find my comments pathetic but in a sense they are meant to be. The shrill, irrelevant, pretend politics as practiced or preached by far too many on the so called Far Left offer nothing to the reslution of the real day to day problems faced by ordinary people. Those of us who are Social Democrats try to deal, however inadequately with those problems in a practical and relevant way so I suppose my comments were simply emphasising the pathetic nature and irrelevance of these various organisations. Unfortuntately the irony in my comments seems to have escaped you. Neverthless I think it is reasonable to believe that someone as principled as everyone in the SP claims to be elected on the "Bin Charges" issue might actually turn up and cast their vote. At least Joan Collins did that.


And yes I agree with dublin exile good song zozimus. though not as good as the one about the hanging baskest in Rathmines many years ago !

by Stating the bleeding obvious Mon Dec 20, 2004 20:04

You do know social democracy has failed and is either defeated or in retreat right across Europe with its inherent economic and ideological contradictions glaringly exposed don't you?

by karl kautsky Tue Dec 21, 2004 00:33

As opposed to the resounding success of Marxism Leninism.

I need to lie down for a while before I choke on my laughter.

by bins laden - none Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:34

Lets keep to the topic. never mind Dermot's distractions..
Mick must know that he has let down his voters and the many people who have campaigned on this issue.
Having been elected he must provide representation.
This he has failed to do in this case. Some of the criticism is justified Mick
Learn from it and move on

by JM Tue Dec 21, 2004 16:53

Y'know, as a non-aligned leftie (cue roars of abuse from Shinners - just as on other threads there would be roars from SP/SWP/Lab/anarchist types), the amount of naked sectarianism on these boards is really disheartening. Indymedia, as an idea, really has the potential to be of value to us, but instead it's like schoolkids bickering over their favourite football teams.

Mick Murphy was late for a meeting. He shouldn't have been but it happens. It is not an example of him selling out or not having a principled position on the issue of bin charges. It is an example of him not getting himself to a meeting on time. If this a serial problem, where he regularly misses important council work because of his work hours, well maybe he should reschedule his work or if he can't, then consider whether he can serve effectively as a councillor while keeping that job. It doesn't make him a turncoat or a traitor etc etc

And at the risk of inviting an even greater indignant reaction from the Shinners, what their party did in Sligo is qualitatively different from what happened with Mick Murphy in Dublin.

There. I said it. Let the abuse commence. Thankfully indymedia has been reduced to a state of irrelevance by all the shite posted on it, so nothing anyone says is likely to be of any great consequence.

by Cynic Tue Dec 21, 2004 17:00

The problem is that Murphy has developed a habit of being late for SDCC meetings. He was 2 - 3 hours late for the first estimates meeting and was up to 30 minutes late for the second one, missing the vote. He knew what time these meetings were on and he knew how important they were. The SP will not accept any excuse in any circumstances regarding members of other parties missing votes. Why should there be a different set of rules for Murphy?

by Stating the bleeding obvious Tue Dec 21, 2004 18:10

JM's appeal for an end to sectarianism is worth paying attention to but Sinn Fein have spent five years being abused and shouted at because two of their councillors missed a vote on the Charges.

As with Mick Murphy, they had very good and valid reasons for being absent, but the SP leapt on the bandwagon with all the opportunism of a Fianna Fáil backbencher. You really can't blame the Shinners on Indymedia for seeing this as Christmas.

I think the point made by Indy Council Corr is worth exploring. Murphys's personal politics and commitment to fighting the charges should not, cannot, be in question considering his work on the ground. His competence as a councillor is most definetly something that can, and should be legitimately questioned.

And in regard to Karl's point, I am neither a Marxist-Leninist, nor have I ever been. I am a socialist with eyes open enough to see that the arguments of social democracy have failed.

by therby one Tue Dec 21, 2004 21:30

given that the councillors get paid a PAYE wage equivalent of €25,000 surely murphy could afford to go part time and thereby not miss any more council appointments. after all the average indutrial wage is only a litte above this.

i think this should be expected from socialist councillors, particulary those alone, as both murphy and collins have royally fucked up this year.

ps any info on fingal estimates, how did that new shinner vote; sligo or dublin ?

by Little birdy - Ironic Party Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:14

That Shinner on Fingal Co. Co. missed the vote on the Estimates according to my information. Ironic isn't it!

by Sparrow Hawk Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:30

Well this thread is about Murphy going AWOL. Its not about SF, these issues have been dealt with ad nauseum on numerous other threads. Its old news. Deal with the Murphy story.

by Not a Troll Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:25

Get your info right the SF'r didn't miss the vote in Fingal. Typical trying to fudge the issue with lies. Shamefull really

by 2005 Fri Dec 24, 2004 13:28

Perhaps SP Councillor Murphy would make a New Years Resolution to turn up on time for meetings in 2005.