The Irish Anti War Movement condemned so-called Iran revelations

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50

In October 2005, the then British ambassador to Iraq William Patey told reporters in London that Iran had been supplying technology used to kill British troops in Basra. He said he had complained to the Iranian ambassador in Baghdad about it.
14 months later, no evidence has been produced, other than suggestions that Hezbollah had also used such charges in Lebanon, so the common origin had to be Iran.

In a briefing in Baghdad last Sunday, US military and intelligence officers finally laid out their flimsy 'evidence'. 14 months later ??

So we are asked to believe that the US and British military, with all the top technology at their disposal, took 14 months to substantiate their claim.

There are other possibilities as well.

For a start, the US is undeniably softening up world opinion for an attack on Iran. Such an attack would be aimed primarily at Iran's nuclear facilities. At the moment, the US lacks a real 'reason' to attack Iran.....and by claiming that Iran is responsible for killing USA troops, it could be laying the groundwork for a 'self-defence' justification.

The new chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator John Rockefeller, quoted in the iawm statement above, said recently: "To be quite honest, I'm a little concerned that it's Iraq again."
There is also the fact that the US is launching its 'surge' policy of moving extra troops into Baghdad. These claims are being made against Shia militias, including the Mehdi army, one of the main targets of the latest policy.

The allegedly Iranian supplied bombs are said to have caused the deaths of 170 American soldiers, but overall 2497 soldiers have been killed in hostile incidents in the hands of the Iraqi resistance.
The claim serves the purpose of helping to lay the blame for the whole insurgency at Iran's door.
There are also other possible reasons for this new trick:

The UN Security Council has laid down that Iran must suspend its enrichment of uranium by 21 February. If it does not, and if the International Atomic Energy Agency confirms this, the resolution says that further economic sanctions will be considered. The US is preparing to argue for tougher sanctions, so making claims against Iran over Iraq might help it in its arguments that Iran is a threat.
On the wider front, the Bush administration is engaged in a campaign against the Iranian government in order to isolate it and eventually maybe see its end under internal pressure from the Iranian people. The latest claims against Iran are also part of that campaign.

So the entire evil scenario hitting the US in Iraq comes from Iran ! The possibility that Iraqis themselves would be capable of copying a design and therefore do not need to get bombs from Iran is not, apparently, on the agenda.

On the other hand, there have been a number of news reports over the last year expressing scepticism, even among military personnel, about the link to Iran. The Washington Post reported last October that British troops in the south doubted the claim.

A year ago, the London Times said that British officers in Basra had stopped making any such claim, saying only that the technology matched bomb-making found elsewhere in the Middle East, including Lebanon and Syria.

These are dangerous times and we have to be careful ....examine carefully what we hear and what we read. As these few lines are being written, I hear of explosions in two buses, carrying workers to work in the Christian section of Lebanon, north from Beirut. Who would bet against the likelihood that the long hand of Iran, through Syria, through Hezbollah, would be on the headlines again?

by Marie Stopes Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:04

The US revelations about Iranian munitions are obviously fake. Even at a cursory examination the "evidence is not convincing. It reminds of the time boxes were found in Sligo stamped "Libyan Armed Forces"! ;) Those were the days.

"As these few lines are being written, I hear of explosions in two buses, carrying workers to work in the Christian section of Lebanon, north from Beirut. Who would bet against the likelihood that the long hand of Iran, through Syria, through Hezbollah, would be on the headlines again?"

But as usual you have to ruin a good story by bringing in something which has nothing to do with it. Its actually quite possible that this bombing was carried out by sectarian forces. There was a 15 year Civil War between Muslims and Christians in Lebanon. There are nasty people out there.

Just as the vast majority of bombings in Iraq are carried out by the so called "Resistance" and the vast majority of casualties are ordinary civilians.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:00

It is almost unbelievable that Mstopes has actually agreed with something I wrote II Wow!! "The US revelations about Iranian munitions are obviously fake" (s)he says quoting me from above. So they are. A new beginning in this tit-for-tat Mstopes?

Now, whether today's bus bombings in Lebanon have or haven't got something to do with the US attempt to involve the Iranian regime in the Iraqi mayhem.....that's a matter of political analysis. I maintain that these bombings are another attempt illustrating the Empire's policy of encouraging and deepening if not creating sectarian conflict in Iraq, in Lebanon and in Palestine.

Just as Gemayel's assassination a couple of months ago was condemned by all political forces in Lebanon, including Hezbollah, so will these bombings. Nobody claimed that execution and nobody will claim this barbarism. These atrocities are the brain children of those political forces who want to see Sunnis, Shias and Christians, Maronite or otherwise, slaughtering each other. And in the process to blame Iran and Syria, attempting to create a casus belli for attack. To that extent, Mstopes, the two stories, are intimately linked.

Don't know how old u are, but I remember clearly the mayhem and the political witchhunt that ensued here after the Dublin and Monaghan bombings - the RTE Stickie contingent, and the papers, going wild accusing and attacking the Republican Movement.....I saw and lived that movie...and I believe it's the same policy, the same tactics, at work here. The actors are possibly different but the scenario, the screenplay, the director(s) and the prodiucer(s) identical.

by Marlboro man Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:13

Undoubtedly Bush is laying the ground work for some kind of a strike at Iran's nuclear programme. I wonder though will he have the political capitol to carry it out. His administration is carrying on in the face of the new dimension of a Democrat controlled congress, as if nothing has changed.
It is becoming apparent that even his own advisors and the joint chiefs are very much against this move. Particularly with Putins tougher stance on what he called America's wars of aggression.

Attacking Iran is/has been a Neo-Con objective for some-time with their stated agenda being a decisive series of wars in the region to consolidate US control of its resources.

In recent years we have seen PNAC's influence diminish as Americas populace wakes up to what was really going on.

Bush may talk the talk and still think he struts the corridors of power with loaded six-shooters but I think the political reality has him very isolated and whimpering off to becoming a very lame bi-ped of the quacking variety.

Congress could pull the plug (or threaten to) on financing the war if Bush proceeds without their approval. Something I’m sure both he, and more significantly, his handlers a very aware of.

by Marie Stopes Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:13

I have agreed with a lot of what you have written all along. Your problem is that you cannot accept any disagreement. If I disagree with some of what you say then I am your enemy.

Look, only the extremely naive believe that the mass bombings in Iraq are carried out by the CIA. The "Resistance" is carrying out the mass murder of civilians and making civil society impossible. Only a demented conspiracy theorist would believe that this suits the purposes of the US.

The bombs in lebanon? I dont know but neither do you. Your immediate conspiracy style response does dont help the credibility of the IAWM.

As for the Dublin Monaghan bombings, the story you told here, thats the first time I've heard it. I was a kid at the time but I dont remember any such spin. You ceryainly wont find that story in any book about the period. Theres plenty written by Republicans. Were you in Ireland at the time? You cant have been there long.

by Nobody's cheerleader Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:32

"Don't know how old u are, but I remember clearly the mayhem and the political witchhunt that ensued here after the Dublin and Monaghan bombings - the RTE Stickie contingent, and the papers, going wild accusing and attacking the Republican Movement...."

And I'm old enough to remember that the Guildford and Birmingham bombings were the same year. I suppose the RTE Stickie contingent made those two incidents up.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:51

I'm surprised Mstopes that the Dublin/Monaghan bombings are not in your radar.

A few links for your info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/17...9.stm
http://www.irishresistancebooks.com/reviews/mullan.htm
http://www.sdlp.ie/prdurkandublinmonaghanbombings.shtm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_and_Monaghan_Bombings

As for the latest message re: Birmingham and Guilford, they were actions definitely carried out and claimed by the IRA - a bit outside the subject of this thread but, to quote my 'friend' Mstopes what's the connection?

Now if you want to discuss why and how the British State chose randomly Irish women and men to accuse and imprison falsely for years on end for these actions and what the Sticky contingent in RTE and some of the Press did about all that - you're very welcome. Lets open a new thread and lets engage.

by Marie Stopes Tue Feb 13, 2007 13:04

Thats not what I meant. I am aware of the circumstances of the Bombings in Dublin/Monaghan. I just never heard about thisStickie attempt to blame the Provos. It obviously cant have last for very long. You are the only person who seems to remember it.

The Sticks wouldnt have been in much of a position to throw any blame around. In spite of their celebrated cease fire they were continuing to carry out "Defensive Actions" in the 6 Counties. These included: blowing up civilians working at RUC bases (thats where the Provos got the idea!); shooting dissident members; killing RUC constables during bank robberies.

But you are right; we digress. If this goes any further I'll have to join you drubbing your other opponent on a new thread.

by Nobody's cheerleader Tue Feb 13, 2007 14:41

Does anybody know what debating rules Michael uses. This is a thread on Iran (from the IAWM pr dept - doesn't that sound a tad sticky?). Michael introduces out of nowhere the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and a misleading rant about the 'RTE Stickie contingent' attacks on the Republican Movement. Then cries foul when bombings in the same year carried out in the name of the Republican Movemnent are mentioned. Bizarre.
(Cue ramblings about the bizarre times we live in and not a word about his own digression.)

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Feb 13, 2007 15:13

An attempted response re: my 'digression' and engagement rules:

1. The Dublin/Monaghan bombings issue was introduced by me as a closer-to-home example of what happens when imperial policy manipulates 'local forces (in our case UVF soldiers) to carry out atrocities trying to divide and enrage the local population.
2. In such cases, as in Lebanon today, local political forces opposed to those who resist the occupiers/invaders would use the opportunity to scream 'murder' and try to divide the local population further....check what some of the Maronite forces are already saying re:the bus bombings.
3. This is what happened when the Monaghan and Dublin bombs went off...all the way down from the then Fine Gael Taoiseach Cosgrave to RTE, the finger was initially pointed to the IRA.... notwithstanding the fact that the Irish State knew from the very beginning who the perpetrators were.
4. The Birmingham and Guilford bombings were introduced by a messenger who is trying to defend the line from Officials/WP/current LP leadership stance....understandable, especially a couple days after their Conference, but not part of this thread. However, if you want to discuss further those issues please engage.

PS What is wrong may I ask for the iawm to start issuing Press Releases from a PR Dpt? Incidentally, the iawm, along with the 'Stop Bush Campaign', is having a full Press Conference in Buswells Hotel next Wednesday Feb 15th at 11.00. Subject matter: our National Rally around the Fianna Fail Ard Fheis on March 24th (in and around the City West Conference Centre/Hotel) and our campaign to make Shannon an election issue. Any more questions?
PS2: I have a question: What is the official policy of the Labour Party re:Shannon and its continuing use for the movement back and forth of US soldiers and the occasional rendition flight?

by Nobody's cheerleader Tue Feb 13, 2007 16:39

1. Of course Bloody Friday and the Bombing of Derry didn't attempt to divide and enrage the local population.
3. How long exactly did the pinning of the Dublin/Monaghan at the Provo's door last? An hour, two. I think you're making this up. It was the third day of the UWC strike and the fact that Sammy Smyth, then press officer of both the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) and the Ulster Workers' Council (UWC) Strike Committee, said, "I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them", within a short space of time of the bombings left nobody in doubt who did it.
4. I not a spokesperson for the Officials/OSF/WP/Labour nor am I a cheerleader for your Republican Movement. Not everybody can be placed in the pigeons holes that you use. I don't agree with your analysis of recent Irish History. Anyway there didn't end up being much difference between the Republican Movement (you looked up to then) and the RTE Stickie contingent. They were just slower and cuter same endgame and never actually administered British rule.

PS Department gives the illusion (and you know it's an illusion) of a much larger group than the IAWM is.
PS2 The Labour Party has an email address. Why don't contact them with your queries?

by N C Tue Feb 13, 2007 16:55

And the RTE Stickie contingent never ended up administering British rule.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Feb 13, 2007 17:05

To return to the main subject of the thread, we have just heard that the Iraqi government is planning to close the country's borders with Syria and Iran and bring in a 72 hour curfew on Baghdad

The measures ordered by Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al- Maliki were announced on Iraqiya state television by Lieutenant General Abboud Qanbar, the Iraqi commander who is leading the U.S.-backed security offensive.

Qanbar said the border with Iran and Syria would be closed for 72 hours. He did not say when the closures would take effect.

by Marie Stopes Tue Feb 13, 2007 17:11

I'm not sure how reliable this is but having found it, I felt I had to post it here. I dont think it deserves a sperate story in Other Press.

Who Are The Real Terrorists In Iraq?

* Clear Evidence British special forces are recruiting, training terrorists to
heighten ethnic tensions
* Elite SAS wing with bloody past operates with immunity, provides advanced
explosives
* Some attacks being blamed on Iranians

Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Monday, February 5, 2007

by i am a believer Tue Feb 13, 2007 23:14

evidence?, why would a strickt islamic country label its ammunition in western language and date (HE = high explosive) their year is NOT 2006. I doubt that the average Iranian soldier reads english. A lot of Iranian equipment is from the old russian country, where western labels are very, very uncommon.

by i am a believer Tue Feb 13, 2007 23:24

sorry i forgot to post the link for the photos of the evidence.
also the iranian mortars are not the same caliber as the photo

by Noel Wed Feb 14, 2007 09:57

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...3.xml

Nothing to see here. Move along.

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:12

Just a paragraph from the Daily Telegraph article quoted above.....

The discovery of the sniper rifles will further encourage those in Washington who want to see Iran's uranium-enriching facilities destroyed .....

Exactly and verbatim as analysed in the iawm Press Release and my post at the beginning of this thread.

Read again Noel?